The effect of the Great Rings upon Men

[Gothmog, LoB]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

I am not sure the witch-king did think being hit by a normal blade would kill him.

I think we have to look back at weathertop to the reaction of the Nazgul when Frodo draws his blade. Two of the Nazgul actually stop and don't make a move for him. Only the Witch King has the courage to still go forward.

I am far from convinced that normal, weapons would harm the Nazgul anymore than they would harm a Balrog.

Well, even Balrogs, Sauron, and Morgoth himself could be harmed by 'normal weapons' if we accept that Elvish (or dwarfish) weapons were also, in a sense, 'normal'.

They were, after all, made by the Eruhíni and not the Valar or Maiar.

Nobody would be claiming weapons like Ringil, Narsil, Aeglos, Glamdring, etc. are playing in the same league as Éowyn's steel, but they would, most likely, not be in the same categories as weapons/artifacts created by the Valar/Maiar.

But we don't really know what the strength of those special weapons was when they were used against a Balrog, Sauron, or a Nazgûl. The touch/words of the Nazgûl (and Sauron) could destroy steel but does this in itself prove that these creatures are also impervious to common steel?

We don't know that. I'm pretty sure Merry's Dúnadan blade dealt the Witch-king a terrible wound, but the killing blow came from Éowyn's sword - or rather the blow who destroy his shape/appearance until such time as Sauron would restore him/he would recover.

It is not just the letter footnote which suggests the Witch-king survived it is also the curious phrasing JRRT uses when he describes that the cry of the Witch-king would never be heard again in that age - which was essentially nearly over. If he had been completely destroyed at this point (or the authors of the Red Book had believed he was dead) then one would expect them to say something like 'his cry was never heard on this earth again'.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Gothmog, LoB

Well, even Balrogs, Sauron, and Morgoth himself could be harmed by 'normal weapons' if we accept that Elvish (or dwarfish) weapons were also, in a sense, 'normal'.

They were, after all, made by the Eruhíni and not the Valar or Maiar.

Nobody would be claiming weapons like Ringil, Narsil, Aeglos, Glamdring, etc. are playing in the same league as Éowyn's steel, but they would, most likely, not be in the same categories as weapons/artifacts created by the Valar/Maiar.

But we don't really know what the strength of those special weapons was when they were used against a Balrog, Sauron, or a Nazgûl. The touch/words of the Nazgûl (and Sauron) could destroy steel but does this in itself prove that these creatures are also impervious to common steel?

I would say so. All those weapons you mentioned were forged in the first age. For comparison look at how Sting is able to slice through Shelob's web, but even the blade from the Barrow Downs can't. Another example is that a strong man like Boromir notches his blade striking a cave troll, but Frodo is able to pierce him with Sting.

I doubt Eowyn was wielding a sword even comparable to Boromir's and we see a big difference between his sword and Anduril or Sting.

We don't know that. I'm pretty sure Merry's Dúnadan blade dealt the Witch-king a terrible wound, but the killing blow came from Éowyn's sword - or rather the blow who destroy his shape/appearance until such time as Sauron would restore him/he would recover.

I would agree with this in the same way, that if second Nazgul stabbed Frodo in the head, after the Witch King had already pierced him, then the second Nazgul would have delivered the killing blow. However, that does not mean Merry's blow would not eventually have left the Witch King impotent.

When we take into consideration his other letter, unfortunately I don't remember which one, where he says if at Weathertop Sam had given a glancing blow to a Nazgul they would have fallen down.

Just the appearance of these blades is enough to stop two Nazgul in their tracks.

Further we can't forget that Aragorn tells us that all blades that pierce the Witch King break. This implies the Witch King has been stabbed a few times before and it has been noted that the blades have vanished and not killed him.

It is not just the letter footnote which suggests the Witch-king survived it is also the curious phrasing JRRT uses when he describes that the cry of the Witch-king would never be heard again in that age - which was essentially nearly over. If he had been completely destroyed at this point (or the authors of the Red Book had believed he was dead) then one would expect them to say something like 'his cry was never heard on this earth again'.

You have a point, but Tolkien could have been using biblical language. Being a devout Catholic he would be aware of the times the Bible used phrases like UNTIL, which implies that the something changes at a certain point, but it is not the case.

However, I agree with you there is an implication the Witch King might come back, but surely the destruction of the One would have ended any possibility of that.