Numenoreans attacking the Valar

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Findegil

The Valar in Valinor were not incarnated. Thus Ar-Pharazôn and his army might have had a hard time to got hold on them. And as Sauron did examplify, it does not kill an Ainu if you kill the body of his incarnation.

It depends upon the degree of incarnation. The Valar never did more than wrap themselves in physical forms, where as Melkor became incarnate to the point that he could be chained up and even executed. Sauron as well manifest himself physically (the Ring) to the point that he could be destroyed beyond repair.

Morgoth was most certainly vulnerable to physical attack, therefore the business of telling Feanor that he couldn't possibly overcome him was a bit silly. Elves killed Balrogs didn't they? And weren't Balrogs the same form of being? We don't read about Balrogs popping back to life immediately after being killed.

But as far as the Valar (Manwe and them) I agree that they could've just gone to spirit mode and Ar Pharazon wouldn't have been able to touch them. But what good is that? Ar Pharazon and the Numenoreans still could've slain all the Elves in Valinor and occupied everything. Sure, you can argue that a spirit can't be slain, but I can argue back that a spirit can't swing a sword, so I'm not sure how much good that does.

Originally Posted by Steve

I'm sure even if Morgoth's incarnate form got killed, he would still be alive (if you can call it that), but would just be a weak spirit, unable to incarnate himself again.

So you agree that Feanor and them could have rendered Morgoth pretty much impotent. If you reduce him to a weak spirit no longer capable of taking over the world, then I'd say you overcame him.