Why didn't Saruman go to the Shire to take the Ring?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Indeed. Sauron trusted Saruman to bind the Rohan army, preventing it from helping Gondor, he trusted him to spy on the Wise etc. But I think Sauron realized that this alliance would not hold if the Ring were in the balance. That's why he wasn't really angry at Saruman at the end of 3018, when he finally learned of his treachery from the nazgul upon their return. Or at least he decided to keep quiet about it, still upholding the useful alliance as long as it suited him.

Yes, truly. And still, it was so that it could have been Sauron's turn now to "pretend", i.e. he could make Saruman think that he doesn't know about his treachery, which could have helped him, too. The Uruk-hai and the Palantír solved it for Sauron: it is funny, now thinking of it, that Saruman most likely had no contact with Sauron since the Nazgul came to Isengard; and their servants last contacted under captains Uglúk and Grishnákh.

I have to disagree. Saruman should have realized, that even if at the moment his Voice™ worked with the nazgull, later, if something slipped, his "innocent" words (uttered in front of Nine witnesses) would be remembered and used as evidence against him. And it was exactly what happened later. It was a pretty dangerous path he was threading.

Well, we really differ on that one, because I really think his words were completely innocent and there was nothing suspicious about them at all, neither when the Voice was in effect, nor later. However, another thing is, that he says these "Lord" things and "I know what you seek" only in version A, where the Nazgul are coming already with a bit of hostile attitude and Sauron at least no longer trusts (or rather "trusts" - maybe I should say: tolerates) Saruman as much.

First of all: why did Sauron send the Nine to Saruman if he was supposed to have direct contact with him via the Palantir? Sauron believed that Saruman knew the location of the Shire, so why not ask the Wizard directly? The explanation must be that by September 3018 Saruman had not used the Palantir for a long time.

Yes, indeed, and at least in the UT it seems that he didn't use the Palantír for a long time, or at least not since he imprisoned Gandalf. On the other hand, in the version A at least it says that Sauron learned that Saruman imprisoned Gandalf; now I would like to know, how, since nobody else knew? (No Radagast, not even Elrond or Galadriel.) The only possibility is that Saruman told Sauron himself - via Palantír (or he did not tell him, but Sauron could somehow guess that from his words, "read his mind" - again, it says in the UT that in the late times, he used to do that). But from A it looks like that Nazgul were sent to Isengard more like enforcers, possibly so that Saruman would hand over Gandalf to them and they'll handle him themselves, or to get the information out of Saruman - only they later realised they couldn't do that, because Isengard was too heavily fortified and they could not stand up against Saruman on this unfair ground.

Third. Why did Saruman started speaking about the Ring at all? Nobody asked him about it, only about the Shire. Why reveal his knowledge of the connection? The wish to impress the nazgul with his wisdom seems a bit childish. Perhaps his words (the first part of the conversation in The Hunt version C) were meant more for Gandalf than for the WK? The message to the Grey wizard would be "see I know where the Ring is, I know where the Shire is, but I tell the nazgul nothing. I can still be trusted."

Now that is a very interesting and appealing idea, I actually like that! In any case, this moment never ceased to interest me - it may be possibly the moment I love the most in all books. Or certainly one of these most affecting me.

Now the oracular dream made it clear that the Ring would eventually find its way to Rivendell:
Saruman was a Maia, he had an inside knowledge of the Music, he knew who had likely sent the dream. Saruman had reasons to believe that whatever he may do, he would be unable to change what had been ordained. So-why even try?

Well, it was a very long, long time since he went "into flesh". Imagine a human after two thousand years. I think you will have quite a big problem with still believing to what you saw such a long time ago, without any renewing of your contact with it. Saruman had seen kingdoms rise and fall, I am pretty certain he also saw some things which shook his worldview. Isn't Sauron stronger after all, and those beyond the Sea won't reach here to stop him, and in this land here, nobody can? And still, he could not be sure the prophecy is a real prophecy which has any value - it could as well be just some idle talk - or perhaps it may not come true? And the prophecy itself didn't even say much about what is going to happen with the Ring. So, if Saruman believed it, okay, let's say he would accept he cannot change what had been ordained... which is... what? That the doom is near? Right, doom of what? The doom of Middle-Earth is certainly at hand, as now everybody's chasing after the Ring and the coming weeks or months will show everything. And that "the Halfling forth shall stand"? Yes, indeed: it already happened, just as Saruman learned - the Halflings had the Ring all the time! So, really, not much new, besides the fact that seemingly Isildur's heir shall return. But that still does not have to mean victory for the West.