Isengard no!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by SoundingShores

EDIT: But to be clear I think Isengard is the Modern English translation of a Westron word, the "take an Old English word and make it sound modern" variety.

I think you're right? One of the bits I elided was Tolkien saying, of "modernized" forms (of "Northern" forms which are standing in for Rohirric; I think "Northern" means "Old English" in this case), "They are mostly place names". His example is "Dunharrow (for 'Dunharg')", and Tolkien Gateway says that -gard is from Old English -geard; so despite not being as obviously "modernised" as Wormtongue, it looks like Isengard is a "modernized form" and should be pronounced as it would be in England.

Originally Posted by Galin

As I'd agree that Appendix E is top-tier-Tolkien-published-canon, I'd also have to agree (with me) that so is The Road Goes Ever On (1967), in which the example given for Sindarin short i is "sick" . . . long i as in "see".

Oh noooo...

Okay, so RGEO is specifically clarifying Appendix E. That's actually good, because it means there's no question of which has priority: RGEO does, it's a correction! I'm looking at the notes to "A Elbereth Gilthoniel", if anyone's having trouble finding it. Comparing the two, and looking at Sindarin:

• A is as in "ah"/"father"; long A has the "same quality"
• E is as in "were" (App.E) or "bed" (RGEO); long E has the "same quality".
• I is as in "machine" (App.E) or "sick" (RGEO); long I is as in "see".
• O is as in "for" (App.E) or "hot" (RGEO); long O has the "same quality".
• U is as in "brute" (App.E) or "foot" (RGEO); Long U is not mentioned.

So... apart from A, all of those are different sounds in my own accent. I know that a Durham accent would move "foot" to match "brute", so it's possible that Tolkien's accent (what would that be, a Birmingham-altered RP?) could make all of these sound alike. Seems like a stretch, though.

On the other hand, at one point he claims that "eo" in "Theobald" is a diphthong (ie pronounced in one syllable), which I can't even come up with a possible sound for, so who even knows!

Originally Posted by Galin

The long and short of it (pun intended): I'm confused.

Meeeeee too.

hS