TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Nerwen]

Much of the talk that day was of Rikae, and of how the spies could have managed to get the better of one so formidable, but after that the discussion turned to the strange death of Eruhen. Overnight many had been wondering if the eunuch's self-immolation had really been what it seemed, and by midday the "murder" school of thought definitely prevailed. The culprit, it was decided, had to be the mysterious Acolyte. However, no one had any idea what to do about this new threat, nor yet any clear idea who the spies might be. A sense of weary hopelessness settled over the gathering.

At first everyone cheered up when the Fool capered in, singing and waving his fantastical clown-head staff, but soon it became apparent that his humour was of an all-too-topical kind.

"I say, I say! When is a camel-merchant not a camel-merchant? When he's really a spy a disguise!"

"I don't get it," said Treasurer Inziladun, frowning and tugging at his long grey beard. "Comedy has certainly changed since I was a lad! There's something vague and unsettling about it."

"This Fool," said the Legate from the East, narrowing his eyes, "is making a camel out of a midget, as we say in Khand. If anything, that sounds like an attempt to frame up a person."

A Little Green nodded. "The Legate more or less said what I meant to say. I think it's time my serpents took a nibble of Eönwë."

"It's a pity we're not back home," said Pitchwife wistfully, "so he could be made to walk the plank."

"YesterDay," said Lommy, the Royal Physician, "I didn't see where all the suspicion against him was coming from. ToDay, I can quite see it. What, by all the gods, was that attack against Nogrod?"

"Abracadabra!" yelled Lottie, producing a small shower of green sparks and a much larger cloud of smoke that set everyone to coughing. "Yes, my divining spell proves it. Eeeeeeeeeeeevil!"

"All right, that's it!" The jester threw down his staff and flung his cap to the floor in a jingle of tiny bells. "I was a fool indeed to try and help you barbarians, and I'll be a fool no more!" He stripped off his gaily-coloured motley. Beneath, he was garbed entirely in black– except for the crimson Eye on his chest. "Yes! I am the Envoy of Mordor! My Master has granted me the ability to see into the hearts of Men– and I tell you Nogrod is a wolf, a northern spy, a vile plotter!"

"He's bluffing!" Nogrod protested. "He's a spy himself! Kill him!"

But of the company only the Legate of Khand supported him, saying that Eönwë's story was full of gaps and holes, and that he didn't trust any Northerner, or anyone who would trust one, for that matter. (Here he directed a stern look at Inziladun, who had been the first to support the alleged Envoy.)

Nogrod continued to argue even as he was bound for execution. "Look, even if– just for the sake of argument– I was, in fact, a spy– ha! ha!– it's more important to get rid of the Acolyte before he murders us all in our sleep. And by the Acolyte I mean Zil! Zil the Acolyte! He killed Eruhen!"

"What are you talking about?" asked Zil. "Still, I'd rather you lynch me than the Envoy, if the worst comes to the worst."

"You see? Only the Acolyte would say that, you Acolyte!"

"Whatever Nogrod may be, he's right about the Acolyte." Guard-lieutenant Shasta, who had been silent for most of the day, suddenly spoke up. "We could lynch them both, just to be on the safe side, and let the gods sort it out."

Legate of Khand was struck by the idea, but the rest of the company thought it too risky, and were more interested in dreaming up a suitable means of executing Nogrod. Finally they decided to force-feed him vast amounts of his own (very inferior) coffee, a punishment they deemed harsh enough even for one of the wolf-hearted Northerners.

As the massive dose of caffeine took effect, Nogrod's whole body trembled and he went into convulsions so violent that some among the onlookers thought the ropes would snap under the strain

A wild laugh broke from his lips. "You servants of evil: die! For Gondor!"

He lay still a moment, sucking in harsh, desperate breaths of air, then whispered, "Well, it was fun as long as it lasted..."

With a final spasm, Nogrod died.

The spirit had barely fled from his body when that body itself began to change, features blurring and shifting, skin becoming pale as milk. Even the blank dead eyes turned from brown to the same eerie grey as the Envoy's. It was no Haradian merchant who lay dead before them, but one of the hated Men of Gondor!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Living
Boromir88 –Wealthy mûmak breeder.
Sally –Messenger girl.
Galadriel55 –Professional assassin.
Shasta –Particularly attentive guard-lieutenant.
Steve –Court Jester (from Umbar).
Pomegranate –Entertainer.
A Little Green –The Empress's favourite snake-charmer.
Pitchwife –Captain in the "Provisional Royal Númenórean Navy" and emissary of Angamaitë IX, Lord of Umbar.
Lottie –Accident-prone sorcerer's apprentice.
Inziladun –Minister of the Treasury.
Lommy! –Court physician.
Legate of Amon Lanc –Legate of Khand.

Dead
The Empress of Harad. Mod. –assassinated in her sleep.
Bom Tombadillo –Greatly afflicted beggar. Ordo. –multiple stab wounds.
Eruhen –Court eunuch. Ordo. –burned to death on the Empress's funeral pyre.
Rikae –Empress's handmaiden. Royal Executioner. –garotted with own wire.
Nogrod –Camel and coffee trader. Spy. –poisoned with own merchandise.

It is now Night Three.

[Nerwen]

Dark was the mood of the three spies that night as they climbed the staircase that led to the Envoy's quarters.

"I care not what happens to us now," one muttered, speaking for them all, "as long as I see the blood of that accursed sorcerer!"

As they neared the landing that was their goal, they were most encouraged to see that the Envoy's door was unguarded.

"Odd, this. Magician or not, I'd say he's too confident for his own good–"

"The Envoy," said a voice behind them, "is defended better than you think." Galadriel55, the assassin, stepped into the pool of flickering light cast by one of the torches that lined the stairwell. "Shall I slay you now, Northern devils? Or will your craven souls, lusting after a few more hours of life, tempt you to surrender, that you may be led to execution tomorrow?" The light flashed on the long, sharp blade of her dagger. "Which is it to be?"

"Neither. It is you we shall slay, barbarian!" they said, drawing their own weapons.

"By Elbereth!" said one. "Is it to be only women we kill, though? Doesn't seem right..."

"A woman? Say rather, a fiend. You saw what she did to those slaves, didn't you? And she played full part in poor Nogrod's killing," replied another grimly. "Tonight the assassin shall be assassinated! For Gondor!"

"For the Empress!" shrieked Galadriel55.

Like Rikae before her, Galadriel fought with the savagery of a true fanatic. Her blade did the work of three, flashing and whirling in a deadly dance of steel. Outnumbered though she was, it seemed she might yet prove more than a match for the three spies. Then one of them managed to lunge past her guard, gashing her across the shoulder. It was not, in itself, a mortal wound, but the shock of it sent the blade spinning from her hand. Worse, it made her lose her precarious footing on the edge of the step.

The assassin teetered for a moment, arms flailing, then with a scream fell backwards and crashed down the stairs, to lie sprawled and motionless at the bottom.

The three made their way down gingerly, half-afraid she was merely shamming, but they need not have worried. Galadriel's broken neck was bent almost at right angles to her body, though she was so newly dead that the blood still ran from her wound.

"Wait, that's funny," said one of the spies, bending for a closer look.

The rip in the black cloth of the assassin's robe revealed another layer of clothing beneath– this one a brilliant scarlet, embroidered on the shoulder with a design in gold thread.

Bloody though it was, they had no difficulty in recognising the triple serpent insignia of the Captain of the Guard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Living
Boromir88 –Wealthy mûmak breeder.
Sally –Messenger girl.
Shasta –Particularly attentive guard-lieutenant.
Steve –Court Jester (from Umbar).
Pomegranate –Entertainer.
A Little Green –The Empress's favourite snake-charmer.
Pitchwife –Captain in the "Provisional Royal Númenórean Navy" and emissary of Angamaitë IX, Lord of Umbar.
Lottie –Accident-prone sorcerer's apprentice.
Inziladun –Minister of the Treasury.
Lommy! –Court physician.
Legate of Amon Lanc –Legate of Khand.

Dead
The Empress of Harad. Mod. –assassinated in her sleep.
Bom Tombadillo –Greatly afflicted beggar. Ordo. –multiple stab wounds.
Eruhen –Court eunuch. Ordo. –burned to death on the Empress's funeral pyre.
Rikae –Empress's handmaiden. Royal Executioner. –garotted with own wire.
Nogrod –Camel and coffee trader. Spy. –poisoned with own merchandise.
Galadriel55 –Professional assassin. Captain of the Guard. –neck broken in stairwell fight.

Day Three has begun.

[A Little Green]

A dead wolf is gloating next to me. I find that disturbing.

[Eönwë]

NOOOOOOO! I dreamed her as well.

[Eönwë]

Also, only one kill. I wonder what that means the first one was.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

Also, only one kill. I wonder what that means the first one was.

Might be that the Acolyte only kills once, or that s/he only kills every other Night, or that s/he only kills when s/he wants to, or that s/he kills randomly, or - just about anything, really.

Well. If we want to think positive, at least we don't have to worry about accidentally lynching Gifteds any more. And likewise, we're one wolf down which means we'll have a deal to analyze toDay!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Might be that the Acolyte only kills once, or that s/he only kills every other Night, or that s/he only kills when s/he wants to, or that s/he kills randomly, or - just about anything, really.

That's basically what I think too. I never believed for a second that the Acolyte would be simply a Werebear, or anything that would kill every Night. If it had anything to do with the Acolyte, anyway.

Well. If we want to think positive, at least we don't have to worry about accidentally lynching Gifteds any more. And likewise, we're one wolf down which means we'll have a deal to analyze toDay!

Unless lynching the Acolyte counts. Let's bear in mind we still don't know if the Acolyte is evil or not.

Anyway, it's rather bad to lose the Captain, I wonder if it was a targeted thing (I would say yes - a good deal of people suspected her, so why else to kill her unless there was good chance she was Gifted or something). By any chance, you didn't leave any clues yesterDay about that you would want to dream about her, Eönwë, in case the WWs might have spotted that or something? Otherwise I don't know what she had been saying which could have triggered her death. But I would assume it was probably that the WWs assumed she was Gifted, that seems to me at least logical. And there are other priorities toDay to analyze, as it was said, namely Nogrod and his actions the previous days - so that's what we should focus on.

I'll look at it too, during the upcoming hours; I will be doing other stuff besides playing too, but I'll be popping up from time to time.

[Pomegranate]

Oh no! I guess this means one thing - Eonwe, you'll be dead after toNight, so it would be worthy of getting your one ordo.

Also, I'm ill, too much to be able to think much, but I'll try my best. That will at least mean I'll be here all the time, in my bed, following the game. Things that I managed to think about yesterDay while following the game on my phone on all the little free bits I had:

Legate. I was looking at him yesterday thinking, there's no reason an innocent person would react to Eonwe's revelation like that. I mean, yes, you can question that, you can 'not be sure' but if you don't know more than an ordo, I can see NO reason why you would dare that much with the life of our Seer. The only reason I could think for you acting like that would have been if you had been the real Seer and tried to save Nog without being exposed yourself. Now that we can be sure that's not the case, I don't think there's any explanation Legate could give that would make him less wolf-like in my head.

Besides Legate, there's still two wolves amongst us however, and of those two I don't really have any idea yet. Though it would be amusing if Greenie, Lommy and Nog had all been wolves, sitting together in the same room panicing about one of them being lynched. But that's just a funny idea, it is no suspection, nothing in-game related.

And one thing I'd like to know is where did we decide that Inzil is the acolyte and the acolyte is bad? I mean, Nog started it, obviously to get us away from himself, but besides him I think Legate (which doesn't really surprise me) and Shasta went along with it. How were you so sure, Shasta? That does make you look a lot worse in my head, at least until you explain (as well as the fact you wanted to try for double-lynch, which is scary business in general).

x/ed with Greenie and Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Oh no! I guess this means one thing - Eonwe, you'll be dead after toNight, so it would be worthy of getting your one ordo.

I actually suggest first NOT. Keep everyone (especially the WWs, therefore) in the dark until the end of the Day - or until most people really have to start voting, at least (=e.g. if people started to suspect you one Ordo heavily, Eönwë, you should stop them and reveal the person) - because if you don't say that yet, the WWs can be confused, we can possibly read more from their reactions... Nobody will kill you until the end of the Day, right, so no hurry with that.

Legate. I was looking at him yesterday thinking, there's no reason an innocent person would react to Eonwe's revelation like that. I mean, yes, you can question that, you can 'not be sure' but if you don't know more than an ordo, I can see NO reason why you would dare that much with the life of our Seer. The only reason I could think for you acting like that would have been if you had been the real Seer and tried to save Nog without being exposed yourself. Now that we can be sure that's not the case, I don't think there's any explanation Legate could give that would make him less wolf-like in my head.

Well it was similar - I suspected Eönwë so heavily at the moment he revealed that I thought his revelation MUST be fake, so I thought the real Seer is probably still somewhere, and wanted to make it so that the real Seer wouldn't have to counter-reveal yet, because that's what I thought Eönwë had intended (along with saving himself - there was no real logical reason for him to pretend to be the Seer if he was a Wolf. I thought he was a lame scared Wolf who lost his nerves seeing he's getting heavy suspicion and probably getting lynched, and so he tried to save his skin for at least one Day AND drag the Seer along with him. As you see, that would make perfect sense).

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Legate

Anyway, it's rather bad to lose the Captain, I wonder if it was a targeted thing (I would say yes - a good deal of people suspected her, so why else to kill her unless there was good chance she was Gifted or something). By any chance, you didn't leave any clues yesterDay about that you would want to dream about her, Eönwë, in case the WWs might have spotted that or something? Otherwise I don't know what she had been saying which could have triggered her death. But I would assume it was probably that the WWs assumed she was Gifted, that seems to me at least logical.

Not that it matters a great deal, but I think they did believe Gal was Gifted; she was quite nervous and jumpy a lot of the time. Also, why would Steve leave a hint as to who he was going to dream? Makes no sense, buddy.

Originally Posted by Nate

How were you so sure, Shasta? That does make you look a lot worse in my head, at least until you explain (as well as the fact you wanted to try for double-lynch, which is scary business in general).

He never wanted a double-lynch, though. What he said was,

Originally Posted by Shasta

Nog is a wolf. Fine. Lynch him tomorrow.

I started working on a vote analysis, but don't have time to finish it now. Anyway, I should be around most of the Day (and this time also at DL!), I'll be gone some hours now but back in a bit.


EDIT: x-ed with Legzy

[Nerwen]

Sorry for the delay in getting the narration up– I've been busy and the wolves, I mean spies, didn't send the kill in until very late.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

it would be amusing if Greenie, Lommy and Nog had all been wolves, sitting together in the same room panicing about one of them being lynched. But that's just a funny idea, it is no suspection, nothing in-game related.

I've thought of this a few times, since I've suspected them all a little bit at some time.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I actually suggest first NOT. Keep everyone (especially the WWs, therefore) in the dark until the end of the Day

No. No. No. Because then I'm just revealing them for the wolves, and they don't get the opportunity to go all out as a person totally free from suspicion. I'm sorry, but all the suggestions you've made about who to reveal when are ones that are detrimental to the village, disguised as a concerned remark. In fact, I still think that you're the most likely to be a wolf.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Not that it matters a great deal, but I think they did believe Gal was Gifted; she was quite nervous and jumpy a lot of the time. Also, why would Steve leave a hint as to who he was going to dream? Makes no sense, buddy.

I was just checking whether he perchance didn't. Some people do, I don't know if Steve is one of them. Never heard of Seer saying something like "I might keep my eye on..."?

He never wanted a double-lynch, though. What he said was, I started working on a vote analysis, but don't have time to finish it now. Anyway, I should be around most of the Day (and this time also at DL!), I'll be gone some hours now but back in a bit.

He did not say it maybe, but he was playing with it dangerously by putting the second line of votes there.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

No. No. No. Because then I'm just revealing them for the wolves, and they don't get the opportunity to go all out as a person totally free from suspicion.

They will get that opportunity the next Day, of course! That's how it's always been done. Because toNight, of course, YOU will die, most likely (and if not, the better). So it's not revaling them only for the Wolves! And on top of that, they would have that chance after you reveal that - like I said, sometime later. Since we have Americans who will probably vote overnight European time (and should better know who is not a Wolf before the vote), then e.g. evening European time would be good. Of course, it's entirely your call.

Off for maybe half an hour or hour, I'll be back.

[Pomegranate]

Greenie:

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

However, I didn't even consider a double-lynch idea. That would solve the conundrum quite nicely. Who's left to vote? Can we pull it off?

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Well, I encourage everyone to think about it quite hard. I'm going to bed - I can't keep my eyes open. Given my aberrant schedule, though, I may be back awake again before DL. We'll see.

Good luck in any case!

This didn't get too serious because after that Shasta left - however, there it is, trying to lure us at least a bit into the idea.

Eonwe: Them? Didn't you just say you dreamed of G55?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Eonwe: Them? Didn't you just say you dreamed of G55?

Yes, I did.

It was just an entertaining thought I had earlier in the game. That's what I meant. Unless you were referring to something else I said.

[Pomegranate]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

No. No. No. Because then I'm just revealing them for the wolves, and they don't get the opportunity to go all out as a person totally free from suspicion. I'm sorry, but all the suggestions you've made about who to reveal when are ones that are detrimental to the village, disguised as a concerned remark. In fact, I still think that you're the most likely to be a wolf.

Referred to this. There has been three nights - that would leave you with one ordo, Nog and G55.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Referred to this. There has been three nights - that would leave you with one ordo, Nog and G55.

I can't dream everyone I suspect, can I? I only get one pick per Night.

edit: And I didn't suspect them enough to dream them anyway.

[Pomegranate]

Eonwe: exactly. Three nights leave you with three names: Nog, G55 and an ordo. But you talk about revealing "them" - though there's only one person for you to reveal. (To be honest, I don't know if this actually matters, it was just a side note, but now it's annoying not to be understood)

[Eönwë]

Also, I'd like to say that I find it likely that if the Acolyte did kill Eru (We still haven't definitely had it stated that it wasn't a requested modfire, for example), then that means they probably chose the good side. I mean, Eru's "I'm here but I'll just watch" doesn't look too great.

Also, I've just realised that if the Acolyte can choose what they do (i.e. between seer, ranger and kill) each Night, they can still protect me. If it's cyclical, then then they can't.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Eonwe: exactly. Three nights leave you with three names: Nog, G55 and an ordo. But you talk about revealing "them" - though there's only one person for you to reveal. (To be honest, I don't know if this actually matters, it was just a side note, but now it's annoying not to be understood)

Oh, "them". I meant xem. Sorry.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate

That's basically what I think too. I never believed for a second that the Acolyte would be simply a Werebear, or anything that would kill every Night. If it had anything to do with the Acolyte, anyway.

I thought the narration was pretty clear on that fact, myself. Unless a "shadowy figure" isn't supposed to be suspicious.

Originally Posted by Pom

And one thing I'd like to know is where did we decide that Inzil is the acolyte and the acolyte is bad? I mean, Nog started it, obviously to get us away from himself, but besides him I think Legate (which doesn't really surprise me) and Shasta went along with it. How were you so sure, Shasta? That does make you look a lot worse in my head, at least until you explain (as well as the fact you wanted to try for double-lynch, which is scary business in general).

1. Inzil was hinting at something during Day 1. If you'll remember, Rikae mentioned it quite blatantly.

2. Nog's points about it. The fact that he was a wolf doesn't really matter - the Acolyte doesn't count for the innocents or the wolves; plus, every indication was that the Acolyte was some type of Werebear, with the Eruhen kill. Wolves have an interest in getting rid of the Werebear - besides that the Werebear could kill them at night, something they aren't usually worried about, the Wolves and Werebear traditionally cannot win together. I don't think Nog's points about Inzil being the Acolyte should be discounted just because he was a wolf.

3. (and really the best point) - He hasn't denied it. Every time the subject has gotten a little too close to someone asking him directly, Inzil has either avoided the question or changed the subject.

Now then, what was so scary about wanting to double lynch Nog (a Seer-dreamt wolf) and Inzil (who I'm convinced is the Acolyte, and want to lynch)? Let's look at the votes from yesterday -

Originally Posted by The Votes

Eonwe - Greenie (Eonwe 1)
Pom - Legate (Eonwe 1, Legate 1)
(Eonwe's reveal)
Inzil - Nog (Eonwe 1, Legate 1, Nog 1)
Lottie - Nog (Eonwe 1, Legate 1, Nog 2)
Nog - Eonwe (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 2)
G55 - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 3)
Sally - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 4)
Boro - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 5)
Shasta - Inzil (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 5, Inzil 1)
Eonwe - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 6, Inzil 1)
Lommy - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 7, Inzil 1)
Legate - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 8, Inzil 1)
Pitch - Nog (Eonwe 2, Legate 1, Nog 9, Inzil 1)

When I voted Inzil, Nog had 5 votes. Therefore, even if every person after me had voted Inzil, Nog would still have been lynched along with him.

Which, coincidentally, renders this point by Legate -

Originally Posted by Legate

BUT on second thought, no, really not - we should preferably try to vote for the same person in order to avoid a multiple lynch (or in the worst case, lynching the Seer along!!!!!!) - so in this light, Shasta's suggestion would really not look very good.

I mean, we don't know how many WWs have voted already, but given that there are FOUR of them, they could still steer the lynch in the way that there will be a double-lynch, even lynching Steve! So we should try avoid making it a possibility.

- utter bollocks, if you'll pardon the saying. Sure, the other three wolves could have voted Eonwe. That would just have required manipulation of the space-time continuum (at the point Legate said this, it was just him and Pitch left to vote), and would have put Eonwe at 5 and Nog at 6. Brilliant!

...Wait, what?

Originally Posted by Legate

He did not say it maybe, but he was playing with it dangerously by putting the second line of votes there.

See above.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Conclusions from above - I think Inzil is the Acolyte, I would ideally like to get rid of him before he can kill again, and some things Legate have said have been so far off the mark and unlike how I know Legate to act that it's basically Nog vol. II to my eyes at the moment.

(That is to say, I thought Nog was suspicious for defending G55's outburst, in total counter to how he would normally act, and now Legate, normally quite sensible, has been acting very crazy.)

[satansaloser2005]

So let me get this straight. So far, I've suspected the hunter (Rikae, on Day 1), the ranger (Galadriel, on Day every Day so far), the seer (Steve, see Galadriel), and one wolf (Nog, on Day 2).

Well, at least my gifted radar is still intact. >.<

Anyway, following this logic, and this lack of luck, Dun, Pitch, or Legate (my top pick) must be the Acolyte, and the other two wolves.


Or, as they say in Limerick....

I seem to suspect those with skills
Who then tend to be Nightly kills
Does this mean that Dun
Is really The One
Or one who ate Nerwen for thrills?


EDIT: x'd with two Shastas. Heyo.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Anyway, following this logic, and this lack of luck, Dun, Pitch, or Legate (my top pick) must be the Acolyte, and the other two wolves.

What?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

What?

What? What's that face for? *blinks* Oh, I see. Fair enough, I suppose. I meant that one of them must be the Acolyte, while the other two are probably wolves. (Although good on you, mate. If I'd been a wolf, I would have omitted the comma there, the one between Acolyte and the wolves. Sharp eye, even though in this case it means nothing.)


Or, as they say in Limerick....

I see Steve-O has his eyes peeled
For anything we might reveal
Though my posts are bare
Of all lupine hair
I still must admire his zeal

[Boromir88]

Lovely, now the Ranger.

At least there's one dead wolf to follow, sometimes once we get that first one, the rest start falling. And Nog certainly leaves a lot of stuff to wade through. I only wish you didn't feel like you had to reveal yesterday. I mean, I understand why you did, but I was hoping if people could just stop and see Nog was acting completely irrational/paranoid whenever someone started suspecting him, that he was being far from the thoughtful, considerate Nog. But that post crossed with your reveal, and I threw my hands up, because my immediate reaction was...Seriously Eonwe? all that time I just spent on Nog...wasted.

Originally Posted by Pom

This didn't get too serious because after that Shasta left - however, there it is, trying to lure us at least a bit into the idea.

I'm rather suspicious of Shasta, but not for tossing out the double-lynch idea. Not all double-lynches are bad (my very first game the village won because of an orchestrated multiple like 5-person lynch...it was brilliant and just shows the brilliance of innocents when we can band together. But yeah, most double-lynches aren't orchestrated by innocents, rather happen randomly due to cross-voting messes or hijacked by wolves.

It's what Shasta said about my vote:

Also, Boro? Your most recent post? Looks exactly like Glirdywolf from the Alice in Wonderland game of Wilwa's - you know, the one where it turned out he really was a wolf who was that eager to bus a packmate. Not really helping your case there, buddy.

First off, I have no idea how I'm supposed to remember what Glirdan did in some other game years ago. Maybe I'm a stickler for this stuff, but that snipe doesn't sit well with me. "Looks exactly like Glirdywolf"...right "exactly" and since Glirdan bused the death of a packmate in some other game, I'm doing exactly the same now?

Look, everyone knows I have no problem getting packmates lynched when I'm a wolf. You don't have to reference another person, in a game years ago, and say "it's exactly the same!" to make this point. That comment just didn't sit well, because it's another over the top reaction..."Look everyone! Look what Boro is doing! It's exactly like another wolf, in this other game!"

Also, I find it rather curious this acolyte-focus similarity from Nog and Shasta yesterday. Nog, to save himself, tried to make us turn against the acolyte. Which, well might have worked since the role is still extremely mysterious. But try following Nog's argument and it made absolutely no sense. If he was an ordo (like he was trying to argue yesterday) there was just no way he could know what side the acolyte is on and what actions/powers the acolyte had.

A wolf wouldn't know either, but the very fact he argued the Acolyte must have been with the wolves, means the wolves have probably entertained the idea of trying to find the acolyte/turn the acolyte to their side. Now that we know Nog is a wolf, it would appear, based on his argument yesterday, the acolyte in fact is not on the wolf team yet. I don't know if the acolyte is on any team, could be on the acolyte team, but for the time being we can't get into these circular debates about what's the acolyte's role and what side he's on. We don't know, but it appears, based on Nog's posting yesterday, the wolves don't know either.

And now, what I find curious, is Shasta tried a more subtle sew distrust about the acolyte yesterday.

Seriously? Guys. Look at the Eruhen kill. It's pretty clear at this point that the Acolyte, if not a traditional werebear, at least has the power to kill by himself (I say him because Nog being a wolf doesn't mean his points about Inzil being the Acolyte aren't valid - I've thought so myself since yesterday, as did Rikae apparently).

Nog is a wolf. Fine. Lynch him tomorrow. Lynching one wolf out of four isn't going to have any short-term effects - if we lynch Inzil (who clearly, at this point, doesn't have the best interests of the village in mind), we drop the number of kills per night to one.

(bolding my emphasis)

Based Nog being ousted yesterday he tried the "hit us over the head" approach. "The acolyte is clearly on the wolf team! And I'm innocent, so even though I can't possibly know what the acolyte is doing, he's clearly for the wolves and we're all going to die tomorrow if you lynch me."

Shasta, tries to do the same, only not so "bash you over the head" with it approach. He accepts Nog's a wolf, but doesn't vote based on that, and instead tries to sew seeds of doubt about the acolyte. Again, who can possibly know this?

And I must ask, who would benefit more from trying to make us doubt the allegiance of the acolyte? I'm not saying maybe the acolyte is against us, I'm just saying I don't know. But I accept I don't know and I leave it at that. It would appear Nog (and therefor the wolves) don't know either, but that also means the Acolyte isn't on their side either. So, who then would benefit trying to get us to turn attention and lynch the acolyte? (Yes. That's a rhetorical question)

Edit: crossed since Eonwe's post #300

[Eönwë]

Boro looks bad through association- either the wolves have latched onto him or he's one of them.

edit: forgot to click post, and now x-ed with the man himself

[Pomegranate]

Shasta: okay, the double-lynch-danger was me not counting the votes. Though technically, if of the rest one would've gone with you and then the three wolves would have voted for Eonwe, he would've gotten lynched. But I can see that's not exactly likely, so as I said, it's me not counting the votes.

And to your three reasons - the third does actually seem somewhat valid. However, to the first, I'm sorry what? Okay, it might be me not being able to read Inzil so theoretically I could've missed some signs he made, but I wouldn't say Rikae "mentioned it quite blatantly". All she said about him was that a) he wasn't contributing (in the beginning) and b)

Originally Posted by Rikae

I was going to vote for someone else, but the recent posts from

++Inzil

have a bad vibe to them, as if he's confident that he shifted the focus and can see one of the other suspects lynched. An innocent who dodged suspicion might be relieved, but would still be concerned about placing his own vote correctly and finding the actual wolves, and the tone of his posts seems off in light of that. In addition to my earlier suspicions it puts him in the lead.

which to me doesn't seem like screaming "He's acolyte!" , just a relatively simple suspicion from a person who doesn't know more than the ordos (though, obviously, whom we can trust).

And I still don't think that xem killing Eru shows surely and absolutely that acolyte's evil - xe has now killed on one night, and a person who didn't really contribute. It's really hard for me to believe that it would be as easy as a werebear. Even if xe's only on xeir own side, that doesn't absolutely mean his aim would be to kill us. It would be either too much for the village - having four wolves already - , or too hard for xem - if xe only kills once in a while, how on earth would xe possibly manage to get rid of all of us, both wolves and the villagers?

x/ed with Boro and Eonwe

[Inziladun]

I echo the thought that G55 was likely pegged as possibly the Captain, and targeted for that reason.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Legate. I was looking at him yesterday thinking, there's no reason an innocent person would react to Eonwe's revelation like that. I mean, yes, you can question that, you can 'not be sure' but if you don't know more than an ordo, I can see NO reason why you would dare that much with the life of our Seer. The only reason I could think for you acting like that would have been if you had been the real Seer and tried to save Nog without being exposed yourself. Now that we can be sure that's not the case, I don't think there's any explanation Legate could give that would make him less wolf-like in my head.

Legate's behaviour yesterDay regarding Steve's reveal was very similar to Nog's. And his pushing to have out any known, dreamed innocents right then just didn't seem like something someone as logical as Legate would do as an innocent.

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

And one thing I'd like to know is where did we decide that Inzil is the acolyte and the acolyte is bad? I mean, Nog started it, obviously to get us away from himself, but besides him I think Legate (which doesn't really surprise me) and Shasta went along with it. How were you so sure, Shasta? That does make you look a lot worse in my head, at least until you explain (as well as the fact you wanted to try for double-lynch, which is scary business in general).

I honestly have no idea why (innocent) people would be after me as the Acolyte.

We don't know what killed Eru Night 2, and we have no clear facts about the Acolyte's purpose or alignment. Period. My focus is on the Spies.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

2. Nog's points about it. The fact that he was a wolf doesn't really matter - the Acolyte doesn't count for the innocents or the wolves; plus, every indication was that the Acolyte was some type of Werebear, with the Eruhen kill. Wolves have an interest in getting rid of the Werebear - besides that the Werebear could kill them at night, something they aren't usually worried about, the Wolves and Werebear traditionally cannot win together. I don't think Nog's points about Inzil being the Acolyte should be discounted just because he was a wolf.

If the Spies are so concerned about the Acolyte, and they're convinced I am it, why didn't they target me last Night? Unless, as you're doing, they decided they could get me lynched toDay and save themselves another Night. Then Steve dies, and they have a clear path to victory.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

3. (and really the best point) - He hasn't denied it. Every time the subject has gotten a little too close to someone asking him directly, Inzil has either avoided the question or changed the subject.

Come on, is that really your "best" point?

Ok, I'm not the Acolyte. Satisfied?

x/d with Boro, Steve, and Pom

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Boro

And now, what I find curious, is Shasta tried a more subtle sew distrust about the acolyte yesterday.

Subtle? I thought I was being quite blatant. I don't trust the Acolyte, and I don't think anyone else should. Good try, Boro.

And another thing. Your post that was basically 'you just look so suspicious Nog' was way more over-the-top than anything I've said thus far. The similarity between that and how I remember Glirdan being was too uncanny for me not to mention it. You're really reaching incredibly far here.

Pom -

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now Inzil, come out and claim what you're trying to claim so we can all see how implausible it really is!

This is the post I was referencing when I said "blatant".

Originally Posted by Pom

And I still don't think that xem killing Eru shows surely and absolutely that acolyte's evil - xe has now killed on one night, and a person who didn't really contribute.

I recall Eruhen being quite a good contributor in the past. I think saying "oh, he didn't really contribute, that's all right then" is selling him a bit short - and the fact remains, the acolyte killed an innocent. Granted, we don't know for sure that it's going to happen again. But I for one think it's very likely. Why no one seems to be concerned about this is genuinely beyond me.

Originally Posted by Inzil

We don't know what killed Eru Night 2

Well, it wasn't a modkill (Nerwen would have said so) and it wasn't a wolf kill (that was Rikae in the narration), so...? I think that's pretty clear.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Ok, I'm not the Acolyte. Satisfied?

Cool. I don't believe you, but cool. Then what were you really doing Day 1?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Well, it wasn't a modkill (Nerwen would have said so)

Actually:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Not telling.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Cool. I don't believe you, but cool. Then what were you really doing Day 1?

I've already been through that with Legate, ad infinitum.

I understand the Acolyte ought to be a concern, but it shouldn't be the primary concern.

Despite known Spy Nog's, and your exhortations that the Acolyte is a big deal, the Spies are a far greater deal. We don't, for all you say, know what the Acolyte does. We know precisely what the Spies do.

At the moment, if I had to vote, it would probably be for Legate or Shasta.

[Eönwë]

Ok, let's entertain the possibility that Boro is a wolf.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What bothers me about Boro is the way he painted G55 suspicious. To me her strong reaction to Rikae's question for Lottie looked very sincere indeed (as I said already back there). So Boro's attack looked to me like a wolf noticing a possible pray who has made herself vulnerable, and jumping for it. It's hard to see evil in a game, but it felt like a malvolent intent there.

Ok, it's weird for Nog to start defending people this early, but even if we just ignore that, his next post which mentions Boro is this:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I might vote for G55 or Boro, possibly Eruhen.

Now, in this space of time, he's suddenly put G55 at the top of his suspicion list (I think I may have to make a separate post on her and Nog later), but then still hasn't re-evaluated Boro. Obviously, we know he's a wolf now, but it seems like he's trying to contrive an argument against Boro. The thing is, with his 180 on G55, I might be tempted to believe that it was an intentionally bad argument that he knew he wouldn't have to commit to, which only makes it look like there's friction between them.

In the post I mentioned before the vote-post, there's also this:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now what Greenie said about him walking away from a suspicion by ignoring it and "taking Greenie out from vote list", and what Legate said about his overall over-lenient manner are points I think merit considering as well.

Not really sure about what to do with this, but it does just seem like he's again trying to pile on more unsubstantiated arguments.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

G55 and Boro do post and they can be read - and Eruhen has said all the time he was busy - so he'll have a chance to explain him toMorrow. So I think we are making a decent decision.

Not sure how that justifies it, but ok.



Now, this post on Rikae is where it begins to get more interesting:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Inzil clearly bears the brunt of her suspicion - and the vote in the end (even and maybe importantly notwithstanding that she says she was going to vote someone else!). She suspects Eönwë somewhat (only makes one point in one post though), seems to be engaged with Lottie and is pretty nasty with G55.

And then there is this odd thing about wabbits and coyotes & liking Greenie's vote on Boro - which whatever it means seems to suggest something about Boro.

So if someone felt Rikae was a threath enough to kill her it might have been Zil, Boro, or looking at how G55 reacts to things, then her (although she should have packmates to talk sense to her not to react like that). Or then someone just wished it to look that way.

So here, while he is saying that it could be a variety of people, with the wabbit/coyote thing, it looks very much like he is implying that Boro is the innocent one.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So... if she hunted Inzil or Boro (two that would have seen most likely by what happened yesterDay), then she failed aka. the one she hunted is not a wolf.

Now it is also quite possible - and maybe even probable - that being the crafty player she was, she was not hunting any of those she suspected aloud.

Whatever the case in regards to the former, it looks fairly certain she tried to make herself look like a hunter (if she thought enough many would have gotten that Looney Tunes hint). So she was luring the wolves to try her (in case the wolves were not in her suspicions so that they dared to try it).

So here he again mentions Looney Tunes (which again subtly connects it more to Boro, considering his previous post). Then he tries to claim that she may not have even left a hint at all. So it's as if he's saying that his official position is that she didn't leave a hint, but then he's left us with the undertone that if she did, it was Boro. And he further muddies the waters:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

One of the basic hunter-strategies I would think, two versions of it would be applicable here.

a) You think you know Rupert Murdoch is a wolf but you stay quiet about him. Instead you give hints you are a hunter and suspect Bill Gates a lot in the open. Now if Rupert is a wolf, he might think that is his chance to get rid of the hunter and *pow* he dies trying it in the Night.

b) You think you know Rupert Murdoch is a wolf and you want to keep him at bay during the Nights to be able to play more - so you make an open threat to him by hinting you're a hunter and suspecting him a lot. (The second one isn't probably the best tactics as it dangers the use of your gift, but people have used it as well)

Just for completeness:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean yes, I can say Boro could be innocent, or then Zil could be innocent, or maybe Steve because she said she will "keep an eye on him", or... Which one that ingenius hint gives us to figure out?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'll make a list of sorts before I go, but meanwhile I'd wish to hear from Eönwë and Boro to tell us which is their situation: the thoughtless overconfidence of a hindsight, or wolvery?

Despite apparently having him as his top suspect the Day before, this is the first time he directly asks Boro anything, or directly communicates with him. Seems fishy.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Boromir88: I'm suspecting him still even if he has been acting more Boroesque toDay. All this Rikae-stuff makes me doubt though. My reason says Rikae did not hunt him (why would she, after that open hinting?), but did Borowolf count on it being bluff (or was he afraid she was the seer?) or was it some others who tried to capitalise on the interpretation that we would then suspect Boro on her death (quite schemy and daring wolves then)? The way he revealed his wolfPOV, or hindsight POV, with Eönwë's suspicions on me he was only too happy to continue makes me wonder as well. If innocent he should have realised there was no way of knowing whether Bom was a wolf or an innocent beforehand on D1.

Ok, now I've revealed and he knows he's going to die at some point soon, and addresses me:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I thought it was odd G55 and you came after me with such fervour and determination (and Boro parrotting you). So I was right. You think you have that nice numbers that even if a ploy is revealed toDay there are enough confusion around that you win nicely even if this scheme of yours backfires.

Heh, I can see Boro's signature behind this... a bit distracted, not his sharp self... right.

There. Immediately Boro becomes top suspect. Completely separating them.

And mentioning this whole Night-suspicion plan... sounds like maybe they did plan it because they knew they were vocal players and would have to use it to their advantage, and so create a divide in the village on either side of them, with a false sense of competition on either side- both led by a wolf. Sounds like a bit of a risky plan though.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And on the other thought, it is possible that after G55's, Boro's and Eönwë's pre-decided effort seemed to fail (I have not seen the guys to answer my question about their accusations), Eönwë felt too much pressure (for a good reason as I think most everyone - other than the wolves - were thinking he was making himself more suspicious than me with his "case"), so he decided to go for a fake reveal without the counsel of the others...

Again, a pre-decided effort. He brings an innocent into this too, and so it may well serve the wolves better to put in a wolf among his "revenge innocents", i.e. ones that he wants to take out in return for being suspected.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

We can't afford to lose an innocent in principle, but there sure are some chances (the Acolyte might not have a kill every Night, the ranger might save someone etc.). If we lynch Eönwë toDay, we're one wolf down, and you get one more dream (I'd suggest Boro or G55) while the ranger protects you. Then we'd have a second wolf, most likely. But you can of course come forwards and reveal the falsity of Eönwë - especially if you have other good news to bring.

More in the same post, implicating both of them. Again, once he's dead, it will make it look like they're both innocents. And one will be. So why not put in your fellow to look good as well?


And there end his posts on Boro as his desperation goes to the extreme. So, what does this show? I don't know. But they definitely have a weird relationship in this game.



Also, Legate has looked pretty bad since yesterDay, and this this from Day 1:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Just for further reference - I wonder if, in case Lommy is perchance innocent and Boro is perchance Wolf, there might not be attempt to save Boro by people voting Lommy. But that shall be seen.

Depending on the level of double-bluffing involved, it could look bad for either Lommy or Boro, unless he's attaching himself to two innocents.



So yeah, rather than making me more certain of anything, looking at this has just confused me more. Draw your own conclusions, innocents.


edit: grammar

[Eönwë]

Legate and Lommy also have an intersting relationship in this game, but I don't have much time to look right now. I have an essay to do, and I might get to it after that.

[Eönwë]

Also, I don't like Shasta's fixation with the Acolyte. We don't even know that xe definitely killed Eru, and even if xe did, that doesn't make xem bad. As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

[Pitchwife]

On the question of Eruhen's death - no, we don't know for sure whether he withdrew or was killed by the Acolyte, and maybe Nerwen is just amusing herself by leaving us in the dark; but the mention of a shadow on the curtain in the narration seems to me to indicate that there was someone else involved in his death, and unless we have an invisible killer rabbit among us that Nerwen forgot to mention in the rules, that doesn't leave a lot of possibilities.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I've already been through that with Legate, ad infinitum.

But don't you see that your reluctance to discuss the Acolyte could make people wonder whether you had any personal stakes in the matter? And your complete silence when Rikae challenged you on it could be seen as telling in its own way.

Maybe you aren't in fact the Acolyte, but don't you see how somebody could get the idea?

Originally Posted by Eönwë

As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

Eruhen wasn't exactly the most shining example of anything on Day 1. With his totally unreasoned vote for Lommy and lack of contribution otherwise, I'd say his allegiance was pretty much a mystery, and deducting that his killer has taken the side of the village is rather a stretch.

That said, I must say I don't like Shasta's suggestion from yesterDay to lynch the putative Acolyte before Nog, because it would have left Nog's role, and thus the truth of Eönwë's dream, uncertain for another Day, giving the wolves time to concoct an emergency strategy, while risking to lynch an innocent instead. I can't see how that would have been helpful to anybody but the wolves.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Also, I don't like Shasta's fixation with the Acolyte. We don't even know that xe definitely killed Eru, and even if xe did, that doesn't make xem bad. As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

"Don't like" it all you wish. I'm going to keep doing it. Someone has to, because apparently no one's worried that's it's not just wolves killing us but me. Therefore, while I'm still going to be looking for wolves, I'm likely going to continue pushing an Inzil lynch.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitch

That said, I must say I don't like Shasta's suggestion from yesterDay to lynch the putative Acolyte before Nog, because it would have left Nog's role, and thus the truth of Eönwë's dream, uncertain for another Day, giving the wolves time to concoct an emergency strategy, while risking to lynch an innocent instead. I can't see how that would have been helpful to anybody but the wolves.

Now I'm really getting annoyed. Apparently everything I say or do is going to be suspicious to someone. Also, Pitch, this is crap. Eonwe wasn't that suspected, there was no reason for an Eonwe-wolf to self-destruct by fake-revealing on D2. Therefore, he was legit, his dream on Nog was legit, and at the time it was very likely (to me, apparently, but not to anyone else) that there was going to, again, be a second kill on N2, which I wanted to prevent. This bit about "wolves concocting an emergency strategy" is rubbish, as evidenced by the nine votes on Nog yesterday.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

As I said before, Eru definitely wasn't the most shining example of innocentness on Day 1, so if the calling was caused by the Acolyte, I'd be inclined to say that xe has taken the side of the village.

I actually thought this was a good point. The way I see it, there are only four reasons why the Acolyte killed Eruhen.

Option A: The Acolyte is a were-bear and kills every Night. This was proved false by the lack of a kill last Night.

Option B1: The Acolyte is a type of were-bear that kills every so often and wants the village (and spies) to all die. This is possible, and the only possible option where the Acolyte is definitively evil.

Option B2: The Acolyte still kills every so often, but xe doesn't necessarily want the village to all die. Xe killed Eruhen because xe thought Eruhen was a spy, and used his "every so often" kill to take out a potential spy, but was mistaken.

Option C: The Acolyte took the role of the person xe killed, and is now an ordo.

I won't go so far as to say it's more likely that the Acolyte isn't necessarily on our side, but it's not impossible, so I'm definitely not comfortable with writing the Acolyte off as evil as a matter of course.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

While going back and looking at Legate, I found this -

Originally Posted by Legate

I actually suggest first NOT. Keep everyone (especially the WWs, therefore) in the dark until the end of the Day - or until most people really have to start voting, at least (=e.g. if people started to suspect you one Ordo heavily, Eönwë, you should stop them and reveal the person) - because if you don't say that yet, the WWs can be confused, we can possibly read more from their reactions... Nobody will kill you until the end of the Day, right, so no hurry with that.

- in regards to whether Eonwe should reveal his ordo. Now, my overall reaction to Legate is still that he seems extremely fishy, but this is actually an interesting point, and one that looks fairly innocent, actually.

The main reason it caught my eye, actually, is how Legate can post well-thought-out points like this and at the same time be as wildly off-kilter as he has been? My overall conclusion on this is while the point makes him look slightly better, the dichotomy makes him look worse.