TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Nogrod]

13 people of which 4 are wolves, 1 seer, 1 ranger, 1 Acolyte (whatever it means, but seems to kill at Nights) and 6 ordinary innocents.

If we get it wrong toDay, and the wolves kill one innocent - and the Acolyte yet another one, the worst case scenario for toMorrow would be: 10 people, of which 4 wolves, 5 innocents and the Acolyte. So at best 6-4 to us, at worst 5-5.

So let's make it good toDay.


In the order of appearance in the Mod-list

Boromir88: I'm suspecting him still even if he has been acting more Boroesque toDay. All this Rikae-stuff makes me doubt though. My reason says Rikae did not hunt him (why would she, after that open hinting?), but did Borowolf count on it being bluff (or was he afraid she was the seer?) or was it some others who tried to capitalise on the interpretation that we would then suspect Boro on her death (quite schemy and daring wolves then)? The way he revealed his wolfPOV, or hindsight POV, with Eönwë's suspicions on me he was only too happy to continue makes me wonder as well. If innocent he should have realised there was no way of knowing whether Bom was a wolf or an innocent beforehand on D1.

Sally: A few limericks (thanks Sally, they make me leer) and obviously a lot of RL constraints. But still I'd like to hear more from her. Hard to say anything, and if this continues, I'm starting to get worried about her.

Galadriel55: I think I have talked enough of her. YesterDay's sudden Lommy-vote was bad and her start of the Day attack on me was at least as bad. I do suspect her.

Shasta: Where are you? I liked his contributions yesterDay and well, there has been nothing toDay thus far, so looking forwards to hear more from him.

Steve: I don't know what to say. He clearly had determination there (and yes, jumping on the points Pomegranate had already made). Unless he answers to my question to him (and Boro), I'll think him very much a suspect.

Pomegranate: I'm more or less agreeing with the majority that she looks both sharp and well, although I suspected her strong language in her first posts on my Bom-lynch -issue (or how she handled Legate: I think I've never seen Legate as explanational than there ). Seeing that she voted Legate (whom I tend to trust somewhat) sure makes me wonder what did it mean when she said he answered her questions "fairly well" - and yet merited a vote. Also she talks of two votes for Eönwë which is either incorrect or then I have missed something; or that we should look at Legate, Eönwë (sic!) and Lommy while the person voting Eönwë is Greenie! (I'm really thinking I'm missing something here)

A Little Green: I'm somewhat astonished I'm not suspecting her yet, but she looks pretty reasonable - and I do agree with her on many points this time around. So no flags, as yet.

Pitchwife: I don't like a lot of the things he does and If I have time, I'm going to look at him more closely tomorrow after I wake up. There's an edge, and kind of vileness to his posting I do not recognize.

Lottie: Her absence has clearly washed away any thoughts I might have had of her off from my brain toDay. The last one looks decent though, but it might be because she suspects Steve heavily there and I do share the feeling. She's also someone I should take a closer look.

Inziladun: Well the enigma then. And here's why. There has been a lot of talk that he was weird yesterDay, and many explanations, and further questions, and the very same explanations going around and around with him. But they are beside the point. The point is, what Rikae asked from him when I was shy to do it that bluntly (even if I tried to ask him about it), namely: "Now Inzil, come out and claim what you're trying to claim so we can all see how implausible it really is!" A wolf backing into "I'm a bit cryptic, yeah, but things are going on now, don't ask me" (paraphrased, of course), or the Acolyte? If the Acolyte kills people I think we have the right to ask him about it... (that he kills people, we didn't know yesterDay, and that was one of the main reasons I didn't ask him straight - or bring that idea forth in the first place)

Lommy!: I think she acts like her normal self - which is to say quite little. She talks sense and I have nothing against her thus far - nor any reasons to trust her over the careful reasonableness -point.

Legate of Amon Lanc: We seem to agree on many things and that makes me feel good with him, but I'm also quite aware that a cunning wolf he could be would possibly try the same. But still, I have no reasons to suspect him and as long as we seem to be on the same side on certain issues, which are the only things I can rely at this point of the game, I'm actually pretty happy with it.


EDIT: X'd with Eönwë... WHAT? (and I thought I had earned some sleep...)

[Nogrod]

Eönwë: why didn't you vote for me if you claim you're the seer and "know" I'm a "northern spy"...

I know why.

You wish to reserve your vote into some later stage if your bluff is revealed and you need it for your self-preservation...

I thought it was odd G55 and you came after me with such fervour and determination (and Boro parrotting you). So I was right. You think you have that nice numbers that even if a ploy is revealed toDay there are enough confusion around that you win nicely even if this scheme of yours backfires.

Heh, I can see Boro's signature behind this... a bit distracted, not his sharp self... right.


EDIT: X'd with a lot - also Eönwë's vote I see... so you feel secure enough?
EDIT2: No it was not Eönwë, but Zil... the Acolyte is ready and willing, right?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Eönwë: why didn't you vote for me if you claim you're the seer and "know" I'm a "northern spy"...

I know why.

Well, he did say he was coming back before DL.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, he did say he was coming back before DL.

Exactly that. When he can see whether his bluff worked or if he needs to try to save himself.

Remember there are four wolves and they can use their numbers unlike we can... so even if this backfires they still have a chance if enough of us stray and they can blend in.

And if you lynch me, then I require you others find out if Zil (the happy first voter) is actually the Acolyte and what does he think killing us...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Exactly that. When he can see whether his bluff worked or if he needs to try to save himself.

Remember there are four wolves and they can use their numbers unlike we can... so even if this backfires they still have a chance if enough of us stray and they can blend in.

And if you lynch me, then I require you others find out if Zil (the happy first voter) is actually the Acolyte and what does he think killing us...

We don't even know the Acolyte is evil, do we? If you think I am he, why does that automatically make me worthy of lynching?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

We don't even know the Acolyte is evil, do we? If you think I am he, why does that automatically make me worthy of lynching?

You killed Eruhen. How about that for starters?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You killed Eruhen. How about that for starters?

Isn't that a bit strong words?

GOING. TO. SLEEP.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Me

We can't afford to lose an innocent in principle, but there sure are some chances (the Acolyte might not have a kill every Night, the ranger might save someone etc.). If we lynch Eönwë toDay, we're one wolf down, and you get one more dream (I'd suggest Boro or G55) while the ranger protects you. Then we'd have a second wolf, most likely. But you can of course come forwards and reveal the falsity of Eönwë - especially if you have other good news to bring.

I see I'm getting too tired as my logic makes this kind of errors - arguing the same case as two alternatives...

So what I meant was, come forwards if you think it the best way of action (read my numbers closely) or stay hidden if you think that is the better route.

Eönwë's reveal is known to be false toMorrow anyway whether you guys lynch me or him. So after that there should be no problems on that issue.

Time might be scarce, though, if you pick it wrong.


++ Eönwë


Good Night and Good Luck (will be back, but see no reason to not make my vote now)

[Inziladun]

Last word:

For anyone who believes Eönwë is lying, I encourage you to vote for me over him.

That is all.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Last word:

For anyone who believes Eönwë is lying, I encourage you to vote for me over him.

That is all.

I saw that!

(I was just going to shut my computer down)

So you are the acolyte.

And your hands are tied. And you don't like it. I don't blame you for that.


But how this comes as no surprise...


Okay.

If it is your task to kill people, and you want to get rid of that, let's do it then (sadly I used my vote already).

After that it is just the goodies vs. the baddies with no random factor meddling with it, and the seer has an added chance. (Even if the worst scenario happens we lead by two toMorrow)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Nogrod is a wolf, a northern spy, a vile plotter, etc.

++NOG

I'm actually really surprised at myself for going after someone that's actually evil this time, because in past games my suspects were usually ordos and gifteds, regardless of my own role.

Am I making progress?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

That said!!! Just occured to me. Steve, if you ARE real Seer, you SHOULD tell us the name of your Ordo. Because either you get night-killed or the ordo does, but the Ranger can protect you first Night, and the Ordo after that. So you SHOULD tell us.

But the wolves won't go for a target that's obviously protected - and the Ranger would be mad mad MAD not to protect the Seer. They will just move around the Ranger.

Originally Posted by Legate

And that by the way further fortifies my belief in Eönwë's fakeness. Really.

I am not convinced in any way that Nogrod is innocent, but I am rather convinced, now thinking about it more and more, that Eönwë is just fake. A rather not very well done Wolfy Seer-revelation-attempt, since he does not know whom he should reveal as ordo, because he does not know whether to name a packmate or not...

Hmm. It is of course still possible he is not lying. But I really don't like it.

Also it is interesting for him to suddenly have me on top of his suspect list right after I got a vote, while I don't believe he had suspected me so much before.

This looks rather sinister. So you say that "no, Steve lies, you shouldn't believe him!", but in the same post you back up and say that just maybe he's right... cause what if he is, and then you'll be suspected of trying to save your packmate. Sure, you justify it - veeery feebly. This by itself would give me reason to believe Eonwe's right is suspecting you.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You killed Eruhen. How about that for starters?

And you know that how? (By "that" I mean that it was Zil)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't see Zil denying it.

If everyone denied every accusation thrown at them the only thing we'd hear is "you're wrong, I'm innocent!"



Nog's last post: And HOW DO YOU KNOW? If Inzil would rather him!ordo be lynched than Eonwe!Seer, well, that's a noble sacrifice. But since you've painted Eonwe evil, you'd have to paint Inzil evil too. It just doesn't make sense. No. Your whole scenario, that is. I have no regrets or second thoughts about voting you.

[Galadriel55]

Guys, I know I haven't said a great deal toDay... but please be forgiving. It's tomorrow here already, and I have school tomo...today, and you post faster than I can read. The most I can add to the Day's discussion is a brief list.

Lottie, Shasta, Sally: Undecided.

Nog is a wolf.

Legate is mighty suspicious. See my post above.

Greenie sounds genuine.

Lommy and Pitchie are questionmarks, juuuuuust leaning to the innocent side.

Boro is dangerous, in the sense that while he sounds OK I've seen him pull off the craziest wolf victory with lots of trust (though paranioa towards the end ) and the biggest wolf-on-wolf I've seen in my time. And that game I thought he was squeaky clean, until I found out otherwise. No, he's just too dangerous to trust. While I'm not actually suspecting him, I'm wary of him... makes sense?

Pom is probably the best-sounding at the moment.

Zil sounds innocent, still.

Steve is Seer.





Get that wolf, village! ^^

[Pomegranate]

Actually, Nog was the first one to say anything in any ways questioning about me:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Pomegranate: I'm more or less agreeing with the majority that she looks both sharp and well, although I suspected her strong language in her first posts on my Bom-lynch -issue (or how she handled Legate: I think I've never seen Legate as explanational than there ). Seeing that she voted Legate (whom I tend to trust somewhat) sure makes me wonder what did it mean when she said he answered her questions "fairly well" - and yet merited a vote. Also she talks of two votes for Eönwë which is either incorrect or then I have missed something; or that we should look at Legate, Eönwë (sic!) and Lommy while the person voting Eönwë is Greenie! (I'm really thinking I'm missing something here)

not that sure what that says to everyone about me, but when for once someone says something else than "she seems sharp", I remember it :P

[Eönwë]

Ok, so it's about time to reveal who the Ordo is.

This will probably shock most of you, but the answer is... Inzil!




So, my picks:

Nigh1 1- Nogrod (Wolf)
Night 2 - Inzil (Ordo)
Night 3 - G55 (Ranger)


edit: x-ed with Sally.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, so it's about time to reveal who the Ordo is.

This will probably shock most of you, but the answer is... Inzil!




So, my picks:

Nigh1 1- Nogrod (Wolf)
Night 2 - Inzil (Ordo)
Night 3 - G55 (Ranger)

I thought so. You'd suspected me pretty strongly on Day 1. Then on Day 2, you dismissed me as a threat. When you revealed, it made sense. That's the reason I was so quick to trust you.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, so it's about time to reveal who the Ordo is.

This will probably shock most of you, but the answer is... Inzil!

Thank you, that simplifies things.

But tell me one thing: if you already dreamed Nog on Night 1 and knew from the beginning that he was a wolf, why on Earth did you join his and Shasta's "lynch Bom" initiative?

I fully understand that you didn't attack him on Day 1, but to actually vote with a known wolf against an unknown?

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

But tell me one thing: if you already dreamed Nog on Night 1 and knew from the beginning that he was a wolf, why on Earth did you join his and Shasta's "lynch Bom" initiative?

I didn't get a chance to properly read the thread before voting, so I didn't realise it originated at Nog. That's why when I saw it, and saw how easily it caught the village, I felt I had to attack him before he could cause any more damage, which was probably a bit of a (read: very much a) rash decision.

[Eönwë]

Boromir88 - I don't know. Something about him seems a bit off, but he seems to speak sense. But isn't he more vocal usually? Why is he so quiet?

Sally - At first I was leaning guilty, now I'm leaning innocent. She hasn't posted enough. It's more recappy like Shasta did on Day 1, which isn't really a good measure of good or bad.

Shasta - Crazy. About as crazy as Legate. And he worries me.

Pomegranate - I still find her sharp and innocent.

A Little Green - She is far too deep under my radar. So she worries me.

Pitchwife - I've been flip-flopping on him the whole game. At first he seemed dark and evil, then good, and now I'm uncertain again.

Lottie - The only reason I don't have a strong feeling of her innocence is her lack of posts. And that's a big reason, because she's usually pretty vocal.

Inziladun- Obviously, he's innocent.

Lommy - If Legate turns out to be evil, she needs to be re-evaluated, because she would seem pretty bad in that case. If not, I don't know.

Legate of Amon Lanc - Weird, crazy, evil. Maybe. Some of his most recent posts have started to look relatively genuine, which worries me. But I think he's done enough to condemn him.


So basically, now I suspect everyone except for Zil and Pom, and Lottie to a lesser extent.

[Eönwë]

When that I was and a little tiny boy,
With hey, ho, the wind and the sun,
A foolish thing was but a toy,
For the sun it burneth every day.
But when I came to Harad's lands,
With hey, ho, the the wind and the sun
'Gainst Northern spies we made our bands,
For the sun it burneth every day.
But when I revealed where my heart does lie,
With hey, ho, the wind and the sun.
I could see that I was soon to die,
For the sun it burneth every day.
A great while ago the world begun,
With hey, ho, the wind and the sun,
But that's all one, my time is done,
And we'll strive for Sauron every day.

[Eönwë]

I feel myself physically falling asleep at my computer (and I want to wake up aerlier so that I can talk more in the time before the DL, so here are a few final observations for now:

-I've looked over Lottie's posts. Their actual content seems innocent, but she seems way too quiet for normal Lottie, so I'm not sure what to think about that.

-The fact that Zil is innocent is the reason I was looking at Boro. I mean, the hint seems to pretty explicitly say that Inzil was the hunting target, and the fact that Nog tried to shift it to Boro seems quite bad.

-Still not sure what I think about the Shasta vs Legate thing toDay.



Of course, my main suspicion lies with Legate, but to a lesser extent, I also suspect Shasta, and there're also Boro, Lommy and Pitch who seem to be hanging around in my mind as possibly evil.

Obviously, Zil is good, and I still think Pom looks good. Lommy's more recent posts look quite good, but overall, she still seems kinda suspicious to me.

I still have no idea what to do with Sally or Greenie. I will look at them when I get back.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

not that sure what that says to everyone about me, but when for once someone says something else than "she seems sharp", I remember it :P

You might not be able to fully experience a Downsian WW game until you've had a good, passionate row with me, but honestly, you need to start looking 20 times more suspicious for that to happen. Until then, you're going to be on my "Smart. Sharp player. Her, I like." list. It's probably a terribly boring list to be on, but you'll be on it until I actually see "Not only is she all that, but she's evil too. Her, I like, but keep a closer eye on!"

Originally Posted by Inzil

I don't know about Boro. He feels less "natural" for him toDay than he did yesterDay. I'm used to an innocent Boro being a cunning, bold wolf-hunter and I really haven't seen that.

Maybe if I actually had some gift in this game, I would see your point about not being myself. But really, I know nothing more than any other non-spy or seer. All I can do here is if I see it, call bs on someone and hopefully not do something disastrous like lynching the seer. If I can manage that, I think I've done the best I can, you lot...expect too much from me.

But I do realize I've been rubbish as far as giving my clear thoughts about today/lynching Nog/Ranger killed. It's nothing you're missing though, when it's essentially "I would not in the least bit have a problem with lynching Legate and/or* Shasta today."

*Yes, and/or, because I think there's been enough concentration on the two of them, for me...I've had enough Legate/Shasta in one sitting. I would propose orchestrating double-lynch, if not for the very fact that all of you are flippin' mad today and it's making me mental. So, attempting to put together a double-lynch would drive me more bonkers than what it would actually be worth.

I'm well aware there are more spies than just Legate a/o Shasta, but I am perhaps the worst multi-tasker you'll ever know. Give me one thing to do. I'll execute it and then move on to the next thing. Asking me to jumble all these ideas of a Legate-Shasta-Pitch, Shasta-Lommy-Greenie, Legate-sally-Lommy spy combinations is a processing overload for me. So unless you want my brain to explode, let me go about my business one step at a time. Starting with either Legate or Shasta today. Comprende?

Edit: crossed with everyone since Pom's that I quoted

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

-The fact that Zil is innocent is the reason I was looking at Boro. I mean, the hint seems to pretty explicitly say that Inzil was the hunting target, and the fact that Nog tried to shift it to Boro seems quite bad.

Interesting. It would, but does the hint really explicitely say that it is Inzil? I am still not getting the whole hint business...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I thought so. You'd suspected me pretty strongly on Day 1. Then on Day 2, you dismissed me as a threat. When you revealed, it made sense. That's the reason I was so quick to trust you.

And I owe you apologies for the really strong suspicion, and for calling you weird, although... well, there was something weird about your behavior. But well, happens.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

*Yes, and/or, because I think there's been enough concentration on the two of them, for me...I've had enough Legate/Shasta in one sitting. I would propose orchestrating double-lynch, if not for the very fact that all of you are flippin' mad today and it's making me mental. So, attempting to put together a double-lynch would drive me more bonkers than what it would actually be worth.

No, please, NO. Okay, if Shasta is a Wolf, it would be better, but... hmm. Now I am thinking (since most people don't trust me much and I might be lynched anyway) whether not to try it and in case Shasta turns out innocent, totally lynch Boro for orchestrating such a massacre of innocents. I am only not sure if it is worth it. Two deaths are really a lot (if it turned out we both were innocent). I mean, if I knew for sure that Shasta was a Wolf, I'd be willing to even go and sacrifice myself along with him (for the sake of more clarity in the village). But despite all my suspicion of him, I can't be sure, of course. And I really hate double-lynches.

Also, anyway, if we really did it, it doesn't mean letting Boro off the hook. Quite the opposite. I mean, such a lynch, even if Shasta was a Wolf, would serve the Wolves just as well as us, number-wise. (If not even better. Somebody with better math skills should calculate that.)

I wonder what people think about it.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

No, please, NO. Okay, if Shasta is a Wolf, it would be better, but... hmm. Now I am thinking (since most people don't trust me much and I might be lynched anyway) whether not to try it and in case Shasta turns out innocent, totally lynch Boro for orchestrating such a massacre of innocents. I am only not sure if it is worth it. Two deaths are really a lot (if it turned out we both were innocent). I mean, if I knew for sure that Shasta was a Wolf, I'd be willing to even go and sacrifice myself along with him (for the sake of more clarity in the village). But despite all my suspicion of him, I can't be sure, of course. And I really hate double-lynches.

And relax. I wasn't being serious with that double lynch, but expressing my annoyance at both of you, and overall annoyance at this "Legate-Lottie-Shasta" "Lommy-sally-Shasta" spy-trifecta chatter today. Annoyed to the point where, at this time I couldn't care less if either you or Shasta were lynched, therefor you could both go. Give a few hours to have some hot chocolate, watch some guilty pleasure/trash and I'll be significantly less annoyed.

[Loslote]

I've got to vote early, so I'll go ahead and

++Legate

For the reasons stated in my earlier post, especially his reaction to Steve's reveal. Good lynching, everyone!

[Inziladun]

Smilies removed. This is not a comprehensive "everything he said" list, just some things that stood out.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

so I think it's a bit strange that Legate continues going after Inzil with a point that he specifically mentioned wasn't a point against Inzil.

Casts a little suspicion onto Legate.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Nogrod's #23 is a long, well-written post that doesn't really say much. For one, it's another "hate on random votes" post, and for another, it's his thoughts on the Acolyte. All well and good, but it seems he's replying to something Legate was using against Inzil at the time, which doesn't really fit.

A small point against Nog.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

And in a bit of a turnaround, Inzil's #24 is another answer to Legate that's basically been the same as his previous answers. Could be a case of "talking too much yet saying nothing", but I still tend to think Legate is the fishier of the two.

Ok, so in the Acolyte debate of Legate and I he finds Legate "fishier" there.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

In #29, Inzil mentions that Rikae agrees with him and then doesn't like the emptiness of his posts, which looks like an opportunistic kind of "hey, look, that's suspicious" move - except in the post he quotes, Rikae says she agrees with Legate, not Inzil. Interesting.

Says I was "opportunistic" when I pointed out what I thought was a contradiction on Rikae's part.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

...What? You just got through basically reprimanding Inzil for discussion that doesn't accomplish anything, and now you're giving him a license to continue? That's.... awkward, Steve, very awkward indeed.

Scolds Eönwë for further questioning about the Acolyte business.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Pitch is now the second person to basically say 'Yeah, Legate had a good point on Inzil' (Greenie was the first.) And that bothers me, since Legate specifically said that what he was saying was "nothing against Zil". It's also worth noting that though Pitch apparently agrees with Legate's point, he hangs back a bit with "whenever I've suspected him because of it I've been wrong" - almost in a way that leaves him an out in case an Inzil lynch happens.

Brings some suspicion on Pitch. That's all from the same post.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

If you're talking about when she blew up at Rikae, I tend to disagree here (what? Shasta disagrees with Nogrod?) And I tend to disagree with Boro, too, when he mentioned that "that's typical G55." I'm almost certain I've never seen G55 explode like that, and the post she made after to clarify what she was saying (indeed, that she felt like she had to clarify at all) looks suspicious to me.

Also, the fact that it's Nogrod, of all people, defending what seems to be an emotional outburst is an immediate red flag.

Attacks Nog for defending G55.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Okay... Lottie's post was pretty obviously a joke to me, given that it's Lottie (and given the wink smiley.) So you're thinking it's Lottie, not Inzil who looks weird there? But I thought you were just thinking it was Inzil (see above)? If that's the case, then you look like you're scrambling to make the same evidence fit a different theory now that your first one's been debunked, if that makes sense. Right now, that looks bad.

This was against Lommy.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

In Legate's #68 (and, apparently, in his list from earlier, as I think that's where Eonwe got his quote), he apparently legitimately suspects Inzil? Which, then, looks a bit like a Legatewolf going "Hey, people bought that? Okay, let's go with it!"

More suspicion on Legate.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

...You're kidding. Who are you and what have you done with Nogrod?! That's so unlike what you'd normally say that I'm almost forced to look for a reason why you'd be protecting G55.

And more suspicion on Nog.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Well... in Inzil's post here -

- he pretty well answers that, in my opinion. So why mention it yet again? Legate, you do realize you've been doing basically the same thing as what you say Inzil's been doing, right?

Takes Legate to task about suspecting me for supposedly not answering him about the Acolyte deal.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Also, Inzil at #96 - all the talk about you apparently not just posting "empty posts" and you post something like this? Man...

This was the post he was talking about. I thought he was really reaching in calling that "empty".

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

He's explained himself twice. I find it interesting that you missed both instances, and I find it even more interesting that you're finding Inzil this suspicious right after A) he starts getting votes (Rikae's in particular) and B) he votes for you.

Doesn't like Eönwë's suspicions of me.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Leaning Very Innocent:
Shasta - Duh.

Leaning Innocent:
Boro - Two major reasons: one, I agree with him regarding G55; two, he's getting what seems to be a rather large amount of suspicion from people I'm currently suspicious of.

Rikae - I debated with myself for a bit before putting her here, instead of "No read", because she has been posting. It may be that her posts stick out less in my mind because they aren't gigantic walls of text; everything she's said thus far looks fairly ship-shape. I don't know that I agree with her vote, but she hasn't said anything that's made me think her overtly suspicious.

Pitch - Nothing Pitch has done today has really set off any alarm bells for me. Even though he's said a fair bit today, he almost went under the radar for me because I just remember him saying a fair bit without actually remembering much of the content - except when he argued a bit with Nogrod. I remember concentrating on that part especially.

Lottie - Like Boro, has been taking some heat from other people I find more suspicious. She's also said quite a bit that I happen to agree with. I don't find her suspicious at the moment.

Leaning Worse than Innocent, Better than Guilty:
Steve - Was tending to think him more innocent than not until his most recent post against Inzil. A lot about that post looks odd, especially the timing of it.

Greenie - Not a lot here to go on, but more than anyone in the "Not Leaning at All" category. I don't really agree with her vote.

Inzil - I'm not certain that he's an innocent. That said, there are some indicators that he was the target of a witchhunt today, for good or ill (I'm leaning ill, myself.)

Leaning Guilty:
G55 - I was fine with her until she exploded earlier. After that, I felt like her clarification of said explosion was basically used to make people more confident of her innocence ("A wolf wouldn't act like that," etc).

Lommy - I was on the same page with her regarding the Lottie/Inzil Case of the Ambiguous Posts until Inzil mentioned that he was talking about something completely different. I thought that was the end of it until Lommy began talking about ways that that made Lottie look bad in a way that almost looked like she was looking for support.

Nogrod - I admit, most of the reason he's in this category is his apparent connection to G55, whom I also find suspicious. His reaction to and subsequent defense of her was so incredibly counter to normal Nogrod that I just can't see that being his real thoughts on the matter.

Legate - The apparent leader of what has looked to me like a witchhunt on Inzil. Apparently missed it the first time Inzil explained himself, and hasn't posted since he explained it the second time. Still, the fact that he mentioned in the beginning that what he was saying wasn't a point against Inzil, and didn't change his mind until a fair number of people seemed to share his ideas, looks bad to me.

Not Leaning at All:
Sally
Pomegranate
Eruhen
Bom


I will likely end up voting someone in the "Guilty" category today.

Ok, so he has me in the middle category with Steve, and both Nog and Legate in the worst section.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'll comment on the rest momentarily, but I want to get this thought out there as quickly as possible to give everyone time to consider - I would, personally, be not at all averse to lynching Bom. Think about it for a second - why, even beyond Legate's thought (which is currently the prevailing mood, sad as it is to say), I can nearly guarantee that later, down the road, someone will say "man I wish we could lynch Bom, but we can't now, it's too late in the game." Because, as I recall, Bom does this quite a bit, and people say exactly what has been said thus far - that is, chastising him for it but not really doing anything about it. Because the general opinion is either "oh that's just Bom" or "a wolf wouldn't do that, oh well."

So if people want to lynch Bom, I'm all for it. It's about time our threat of "participate or face a lynch" actually had some bite to it.

Out of nowhere decides lynching Bom is a good option. As I think I said before, I can see an innocent Shasta doing this, but it was a bad idea, and good cover for a baddie.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

It looks odd that it's only after you start getting suspected and voted that you suddenly suspect Inzil as much as you did in that post. If you just woke up to find that, it's less odd (I honestly have no idea what timezone you're in, haha.)


That's precisely the point!


That's fair. But I'm not sure you realize that Lottie does that all the time. Again, that's getting into playstyle differences. But it's a point regardless.


That line has since been explained. See Lommy and Zil's conversation.

And another point I was trying to make. Why should this kind of behavior be acceptable from anyone, no matter who? And you can "strongly discourage" all you like - it's not going to change anything. It never has.


No, I understood that. I was just wondering if you saw that every time Inzil answered with the same answer, you responded again with the same question.


Uh-huh, and that leads back to the "witchhunt" I was mentioning earlier. Just what explanation would have satisfied you? Because it looks to me like you were prepared to be dissatisfied by anything Inzil said.

He defends me from Legate and Eönwë. Thinks I'm the would-be victim of a "witch hunt".

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

No, it'd be a wake-up call. No one should be allowed to slip through without participating and voting. People can say "oh, well, they didn't deserve to win" all they like when someone who just floats through the game ends up living to the end (because if they're wolves no one wants to lynch them because of lack of evidence and if they're innocent the wolves won't kill them because they're not doing anything) - it doesn't change the facts that they won, and we let them by allowing them to do so.

Defends his wanting to lynch Bom.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Well, with Lommy looking a little better now that I know where she was coming from re: Lottie, I'm going to put my money (or in this case, vote) where my mouth is.

++Bom

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

You're right, Lommy, it is a little harsh. However, I, personally, feel like it's something that has to happen at least once, or nothing will ever change.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

It's mean regardless of what I am. I know that. And I'm sure I'll change my tune once Bom proves that he's capable of actually participating in a game he signs up for. That doesn't really change anything.

Has no apparent regrets about voting for Bom. This seems fairly in character for an innocent Shasta.

Hmm. I don't know. He certainly wasn't shy about pointing accusations at people. then again, restraint really isn't Shasta's style.

Just on the basis on Day 1, I'd be inclined to think him innocent, or at least not a Spy.

[Loslote]

I was feeling so good about Pom...but I'm beginning to wonder. She's been playing with a bit of a cautious hand, not getting into much drama, and basically staying in the shadows while seeming to be sharp and helpful. Also...

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You might not be able to fully experience a Downsian WW game until you've had a good, passionate row with me, but honestly, you need to start looking 20 times more suspicious for that to happen. Until then, you're going to be on my "Smart. Sharp player. Her, I like." list. It's probably a terribly boring list to be on, but you'll be on it until I actually see "Not only is she all that, but she's evil too. Her, I like, but keep a closer eye on!"

This post of Boro's makes me think that not only would Pom and Nog, as Lommy said, be likely packmates, but so would Pom and Boro. In that post, Boro's basically writing Pom off as innocent, and implying that an evil Pom would happen in the future - that is, not this game.

EDIT: xed with Shasta

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Loslote

In that post, Boro's basically writing Pom off as innocent, and implying that an evil Pom would happen in the future - that is, not this game.

I don't see why "in the future" has to mean "not in this game", unless you decide to read it so; this is a constructed argument.

I must admit I had more or less forgotten about Lottie for the last two Days (sorry dear), but I don't like this.