“Thee” and “thou” in “The Lord of the Rings” - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Guinevere · 11-22-2011, 02:48 PM

Well, what is interesting is that beside the familiar "Du" Carroux used only "Ihr" - the archaic form of polite address; wheras Krege uses both "Ihr" and "Sie" - apparently to distinguish between the 20th century hobbits of the Shire and the archaic world of Middle-Earth. (But he exaggerates the modernizing of the Shire language, and I really prefer the old translation!)

Btw, "Ihr" as a polite address is still in use today in the Swiss dialect of Kanton Bern. Also, in 19th century literature it has not quite the same connotation as "Sie" - it's somehow between "Du" and "Sie" ( e.g. a landlord calls the cook "Ihr", but the guest "Sie". The cook calls the landlord "Sie".) But in feudal times apparently "Ihr" was common , even among family members of the nobility.

In the 17th and 18th century there was even more social distinction in pronominal address in the German language: servants were called "Er" and "Sie" ( 3rd person singular) (eg: Komm Er! Bring Er!) And children in upper class families called their parents "Sie" (as for example Mozart in the letters to his father)

Complicated business!! it's so much easier calling everybody "You"!

11-22-2011, 02:48 PM	#18
Guinevere Banshee of Camelot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Switzerland Posts: 5,830	Well, what is interesting is that beside the familiar "Du" Carroux used only "Ihr" - the archaic form of polite address; wheras Krege uses both "Ihr" and "Sie" - apparently to distinguish between the 20th century hobbits of the Shire and the archaic world of Middle-Earth. (But he exaggerates the modernizing of the Shire language, and I really prefer the old translation!) Btw, "Ihr" as a polite address is still in use today in the Swiss dialect of Kanton Bern. Also, in 19th century literature it has not quite the same connotation as "Sie" - it's somehow between "Du" and "Sie" ( e.g. a landlord calls the cook "Ihr", but the guest "Sie". The cook calls the landlord "Sie".) But in feudal times apparently "Ihr" was common , even among family members of the nobility. In the 17th and 18th century there was even more social distinction in pronominal address in the German language: servants were called "Er" and "Sie" ( 3rd person singular) (eg: Komm Er! Bring Er!) And children in upper class families called their parents "Sie" (as for example Mozart in the letters to his father) Complicated business!! it's so much easier calling everybody "You"! __________________ Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat!