“Thee” and “thou” in “The Lord of the Rings”

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

Another point, as far as I am concern, that he is "talking down" to Eowyn, the fact that he starts referring to himself in the third person, distancing himself.

That's a very interesting observation, Alfirin! It does add insult to injury, doesn't it?!

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

You knew I would have to post on this sooner or later, didn't you, Esty? I can only echo Mr Underhill - great thread and great posts so far.

Of course, Pitch! It's nice to see the (active) German members posting here, as we have daily experience of this linguistic usage. And thank you - I'm fascinated by the thoughts that have come up in the discussion, many of which hadn't occurred to me at all.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Sam calls Frodo du, Herr Frodo, which is highly unusual in German, where only little children use du and the honorific Herr, Frau + surname together (as in du, Frau Steimel), until they have learned the correct polite forms - but here it nicely reflects the mixture of deference and intimacy.

Now that really makes Sam sound like a first grader! I wasn't aware of that, not knowing the translation well.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Gandalf is addressed with du by Frodo and Bilbo, as befits a friend of the family, and by extension also by Merry and Pippin. To Sam, on the other hand, he is initially Ihr, Herr Gandalf; by the time they come to Moria, this has become du, Herr Gandalf (!), and at the end, on the Field of Cormallen, it's just du, Gandalf - showing nicely how the wizard changes in Sam's eyes from somebody both respected and feared to a companion who has become more familiar, but is still leader and guide, to a friend who is still respected but mostly loved.

Very interesting progression! And yes, I too am now curious as to what Krege did with the new translation - I may have to pick it up from the library to compare. I've attempted to avoid that till now!

Thanks to you too, G55, for sharing how the Russian translation handles the personal pronoun!