WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm seriously going to kill Lommy if she's a wolf because I love her vote analysis post and generally seem to agree with her quite much.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't like her picking a fight with Lottie the Known Innocent.

And I don't like Lottie the Known Innocent being convinced I'm a baddie with flimsy and subjective "I've already decided you're a wolf and do my best to pick up only those things you've done that back up my theory" reasons. If she wasn't a known innocent I'm pretty certain wouldn't be picking a fight with her but attacking her in return.

Originally Posted by skippy

What I'm saying, I guess, is that you are making a big deal of this.

Yeah, on that I agree, and I suppose I make too big a deal of it but once I got started, it just felt natural to carry on with it. I still think it would be good if no one had their retraction left in a couple of days, but I see that's very unlikely to happen (and in that light, it was a mistake to waste mine, but I am a woman of my word). Still, those who haven't used their retraction should be kept an eye on, and not just during the last days when it can really make a difference because then it's already too late (the wolves can always come up with an excuse to save their retraction for a few days).
I am not telling anybody to do it, but I think it's what an innocent would do...

Hey Zil sorry if I've missed something but I don't think I got an answer to my question:

[Zil thought] the bandwagon was suspicious but two of its members (Lommy & Legate) were not and one (Green) got the benefit of doubt because of being busy. Why exactly was the Lottie-train suspicious then?

I think knowing sally's role would shed some light on other people, but although I have nothing against her death, I don't like Morsul's vote. It doesn't seem genuine, it looks as if he was intentionally trying to come up with reasons to vote for her. Okay Nienna phrased it better than me, I basically agree with her.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

was her role really that surprising?

Yes in the same way as when a wolf you haven't been suspecting dies. It didn't occur to you that they were a wolf so you're surprised, although in hindsight you should've (or could have) guessed. But I don't think that's a very important issue.

Hey Nienna you didn't answer my question:

What makes you think so? She had just posted a couple of times and most of it was banter, and her only real contribution was something I found suspicious.

Originally Posted by Brinn (about ww's vote)

at the end of the Day reason your vote based on things that have been said throughout the Day.

The thing is, nobody said that you have good insights and you're a very good player/wolf - during the day. Winty says it's something many have said, but who has he heard it from if no one has said so here? Lottie how much have you been talking to him about the Downs, and have you praised Brinn to him?
It might be newbie behaviour, but I think it's pretty darn suspicious newbie behaviour. And although Brinn brought up other points against him (you can't vote for someone early and explain it by things "others have said"), her reaction to winty's post is somewhat lesser than I imagined it would be. It looks as if she was giving him advice, but if they were fellows why did he vote for her then? Of course it's possible she's nothing but an experienced player instructing a newbie, regardless of their roles...

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey Nienna you didn't answer my question:

Ooops sorry dear it must have gotten lost in the shuffle. Mira's Day One participation are generally just banter and she has a tendency to air on the side of defensiveness where her "people" are concerned in the early stages(by "people" I mean mainly her RL friends). So to me her measly 3 posts yesterDay were very Mira-esque.

On Greenie:

30 – First post, complains about the votes so far and the madness/oddness of the day, she warns of bad participation but promises better in the next Days, asks people to be sensible

61 – Doesn’t agree with Mira’s reflection that WinWin’s vote was suspicious, Agan is being helpful and providing substance, doesn’t like Lottie’s “gut feelings” as they provide a nice out if an innocent is lynched, thinks Lommy is being mysterious and weird… she knows it isn’t usual but she isn’t sure if it is suspicious or not

86 – apologizes for poor concentration, votes Lottie (3rd vote) with what she knows is outrageously bad reasoning, she thinks Lottie may be an easy day one Ordo lynch but she is the only person that Greenie thinks is being suspicious.

On the whole her participation hasn't been good (which she warned of) but her reasoning for voting Lottie was poor and even though she knows it was poor that isn't really an excuse. If she was worried about a bandwagon she could have voted someone else. I would love to please hear more from her toDay.

[Inziladun]

*NOTE*- many smilies eliminated

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I always wonder why, if the mod starts a day early, they allow the wolves to PM at the same time that the village can talk. I would so want to seize the opportunity to do something silly with my fellows if I was in that situation.

This was her first post, and I edited out some of the banter and things I didn't find signigicant.
Regarding the above statement, I'm not sure what, if anything, to make of it, but it seems like an odd thing to say.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey Shasta why does Fea's vote bother you? And why do you say 'still' when that's the first time you say it?

Brinn seems to be her normal self (ie she slightly rubs me the wrong way). But yeah she speaks sense, unlike most of the others.

By the way winty, we shouldn't edit our posts except to mark cross-posting. And it's true there are no reasons for votes yet, but that's why we're talking. Sooner or later somebody says or does something suspicious. Of course it helps if we have some corpses whose relations to living players we can observe, but first we need to get going.

No it doesn't make me evil, it only makes me unfaithful.

Greenie's tone strikes me as overly self-conscious! Nothing has indeed changed during my absence!

Usually when a newbie wolf enters the pack the older team members tell them to look just as new and ignorant and confused as they normally would and not to give away the slightest hint that they have received nightly counsel. And you have been a wolf enough times to know this is true. Or are you speculating about what you did last night? What exactly made you draw attention to winty after two posts? It looks like a Nerwolf looking for an easy lynch.

I thought the bit at the end about Nerwen was an overreaction. I didn't get anything like that from Nerwen's comments about ww.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The seer should keep in mind that they can't trust their dreams 100% because the cobbler appears as innocent. Last time I played in a game where the seer couldn't discern the cobbler's true identity, we wolves totally used it to our advantage and left him alive although he was supposedly a known innocent, and in the end we won because we could control his vote... Ah fond memories! But yeah that's why I think the cobbler should be killed as soon as possible (ie if the seer says 'X is an ordo' but we think 'X is damn suspicious' => lynch X), I've played in too many a game (three readily spring to mind) where people have said, 'Let's go for the most wolfish-looking person, we can deal with the cobbler later.' Well, when there are fewer and fewer people left, nobody wants to 'waste' a lynch on the cobbler and ta-da, soon the cobbler plays a crucial role in the evil victory.

Makes a good point about why someone looking like the Cobbler should be treated as a wolf, ie lynched. I agree with this.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Also, if the Cursed is turned (and the risk exists until they die and we see they were the Cursed), it practically destroys the seer's known innocent list.
I am saying this now as I've said this before, because it's better if the seer isn't sure than if the seer is too sure and wrong.

Again, makes sense.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Basically a wolf can vote in any way whatsoever, and playing a major role in the lynching of a wolf doesn't redeem anybody because wolves might as well sacrifice one for the pack to make the rest look good.

Yes and no. If it's early in the game, I'd say the wolves are highly unlikely to make a gamble like that. Later on, however, maybe.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Even if you don't understand why somebody does something, it doesn't make it silly. And what does it matter if they 'waste' their retractable votes early on? After all it's the wolves who benefit the most from them, and if everybody used theirs at once, we would eliminate the risk of wolf-organised lynches later.
I don't claim Fea's or winty's vote make them innocent, but Morsul is awfully quick to jump on them with flimsy reasoning.

Doesn't like Morsul suspecting the early voters, Fea and ww.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Using the retractable votes quickly might be worth some discussion... Personally I would be happy with everybody using theirs as soon as possible. Innocents vote alone, but the wolves, having a way to communicate, can use their votes in a much broader scale. I seem to remember a game (phantom's last one, for those who know. In addition to their normal daily vote, every player had 10 extra votes they could use whenever they wished) where pretty much everybody else but the wolves used some of their votes during the first days. The wolves saved all or most of theirs for later and won because they could use their extra votes against the village all at once.
And when there is something like 6 people left, two of whom wolves, it does make a difference if the wolves can retract and the others cannot.

I don't agree with the idea that everyone should get rid of their retractable vote for no purpose. I've already said why not, though, so I won't go into it again.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I was honestly expecting people would jump on my comment like 'You there are you trying to undermine the seer's authority and sow discord, you're a wolf!' so does the fact that you liked my point mean you're a wolf?

A response to Legate saying he agreed with her statements about the Seer and Cobbler.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yeah but there are some things that remain pretty much the same from game to game, among them that newbie wolves should behave as if they had no pack backing them up. And I don't think the "newbie or newbie wolf" question is a problem yet - thus far it's just a question, but you're trying to make it a problem. So we lynch winty and she/he was an innocent, and what have we left? An easy lynch and nothing else.

Responding to Nerwen, who said whether ww was a newbie or a newbie-wolf should be looked at. I don't think Nerwen was being too forceful on the subject. I found ww's behaviour unnerving also, and Agan comes across as somewhat overly agressive here.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Trust me, if I was looking for an easy day 1 lynch after a year's WW break, it would not be you.
Yeah his vote was random, but he is a newbie and at least I am willing to forgive newbies for things I wouldn't forgive for example people like you on day 1. It's alright to remark on it, but I think you were pushing it a tad too hard. Making it a bigger issue than it really was.

Explains why she doesn't like Nerwen's scrutiny of ww. I just don't get how Nerwen was over-the-top on that.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Thanks for saving my voice and speaking my thoughts aloud, dear husband.

Apparently agrees with me that ww may have just been following Fea or joking with his vote.

This next quote was Mira's:

I do agree with whoever suggested it might be of a wolfish nature and xe was told to act newbieish to allay suspicion. Or it could be a newbie mistake.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Your conclusion = it was suspicious? I see but a plus-minus-zero situation.

I agree with Agan, and that's one of the reasons I ended up voting Mira. That statement looked off.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Guilty
Mira. Suspecting newbies is just way too easy, and at the same time she clears Fea's vote (despite the 'on a more serious note' start, the whole comment looked like a joke though).
Morsul. I don't like his reasoning, he seems way too quick to jump to conclusions. But maybe it's just his style. Out of curiosity, how many games have you actually played in, Morsul?
Lottie. I didn't really see any issue with Lottie's earlier behaviour (granted I just skimmed through her first posts because I was in a hurry and didn't think they contained anything very important). However I disagree with her later comments on people - although I don't know if it's because of the content or the style they're written. And that moves her from Nonsense onto the Guilty list. It feels sort of weird that she should make an analysis of a player (Glirdy) who has only posted some random IC banter, like, who makes an analysis on day 1 when there's so little to go on? And hahaha it's sort of grotesque to use the abbreviations WW and SS for the newbies.

Those whom she suspects. All this seems fairly reasonable, except Morsul on the suspect list because of his 'style', whereas later she seem to want to give Lottie an allowance for the same thing.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nonsense
Glirdy. Content? Where's the actual content?
Nog. The first one to say he was uneasy about Lottie's behaviour, wasn't he? For relatively little reason, I think ("infamous mode of "no bad person, even insane one, would do that kind of a thing").
winty. Newbie so I won't vote for her/him today. I think people read too much into his/her vote.
sally. Content? Where's the actual content?
Shasta. It's a worse welcome than voting that you suspect me because of my natural lynch-happiness.
Fea. I'm alright with her vote.
Green. She's another one whose tone always sets me off and I always think she's too laid-back to have the village's best interests in mind, but so far I don't havean opinion of her.
Nerwen. I think her reaction to winty's vote was exaggerated and it looks as if she was looking for an easy lynch, but Nerwen and I also have a history of being on each other's throats (usually it starts with me on Nerwen's throat) so I'm going to wait for more evidence (like the word terrible ) before making a judgement.

She doesn't have Nerwen on her 'guilty' list, which makes me think Agan looks better there. It would have been all too easy to keep up that suspicion, if Agan was a wolf. Then again, there's the thought they could both be wolves.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nope for me it isn't. What if I died today or in the night and nobody else had thought of it (if it's not of any great strategic importance, I prefer to say what I mean to say right away and not wait for a more relevant situation that may never come)? And if the seer can't fully trust their dreams, it's better they keep it in mind from the start, not only if/when they come out with their name list. I have won a game as a wolf because the seer trusted the cobbler was innocent, and if there's something I love, it's making my best so other wolves can't use my tricks to win when I'm not on their side.

Responding to Nog, who said all Agan's talk of the Seer and Cobbler wasn't a major issue at the moment.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Greenie's last post moves her up towards my Innocent list because I agree with her (actually about everything) and she calls me lovely. However I wonder too if I should be worried that I don't suspect her, because usually when I do she's innocent.

Agrees with Geenie's post here.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ookay I've never played with Morsul before so I don't know how he's supposed to behave, but I don't like him nonetheless and he's still a candidate for my vote.

Morsul has been known to garner a few votes for his playing style.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think Greenie and Legate and Lommy do have a point about Lottie and I might vote for her too but then again I'm unsure because I don't know her style.

Now again, why is Morsul worse because of the way he plays, but she admits her problems with Lottie may also be due to the latter's style?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Sorry but would you care to speak English that's understandable even to a non-native speaker so I don't have to spend a twice longer time reading your post than I would need for anyone else?

As you might have noticed I didn't play in last game. And it's perfectly alright to point out what you find odd, but your thought process in the post I found suspicious seemed half-hearted and lazy and somehow far-fetched too (the part that Lommy or someone else pointed out). Give better reasons for your suspicions and I might change my mind about you.

All that was directed at Morsul. I had some trouble deciphering this myself.

Originally Posted by Aganzir;626749

highlight

++Mirandir[/highlight]

because thus far she seems the most suspicious to me.

oh and

highlight]--Mirandir[/highlight]
highlight]++Mirandir[/highlight]

as I dislike retrackies anyway, and this is what I think everyone should do because otherwise the wolves will probably use them against us in the end.

Votes Mira, puts her money where her mouth is on the retractables.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think we really should keep track on who has used their retraction and who hasn't, and that everyone should use them asap, because as I've said they are more useful to the wolves than to us.

I think that's a decent idea.

That's it for Day 1.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay I don't have too much time now...

*is sad about Boro's death* :

Me too but I'm happy she was lynched in the end. That's what happens when you think you know better what Fea is doing...

No s*it Sherlock!
I don't think the connection was that obvious either. While skimming through the thread in the night I noticed there might be something between them, but I didn't actually think they were the Shirriffs. However it's likely that the wolves spend more time looking for possible connections than the innocents. But on the other hand, Lottie might have been a relatively easy lynch today... So I don't really know.

Good morning Brinn! And to be honest I'm quite surprised that Lommy is posting as early as at 11.

Lottie I'll have to go through sally myself before judging her but I think you're maybe a bit too subjective in your analysis (at least Lommy and Macalaure are allowed to laugh at this comment). Like, you've already decided she's a wolf so you consequentially see everything she says or does in that light.

I've done that before, and been wrong.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And yeah this is Aganwolf defending her fellow and whatnot (by the way last night I had a dream I was a wolf. Inzil was too).

Going to post it in the BD Dreams?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'd like to know that too (and not only because I'm one of her wolves) and I would totally be suspecting her because of it if she wasn't the other Shirriff... Because I have yet to see a day 1 when someody pins down all the wolves at once (oh wait I did that in Mith's game! But granted it was jokingly).

Certainly a fair question for Lottie, as to how she's so sure she's nailed the wolf-pack.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ah ha! Main advocate? I don't think so. I thought other people (Greenie at least) had good points about you and I found you suspicious, but it was not enough to vote for you. I suspected Mira and Morsul more. And if I had voted for you, you'd accuse me of jumping into the bandwagon now, eh?
And what's this real contribution you're talking about? How is your contribution different from or better than mine?

Agan does have a point or two. She did throw suspicion Lottie's way, but hers didn't seem to be the loudest voice calling for Lottie's lynch.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay Inzil's vote is based on my suspicions of Mira. While I have nothing against people agreeing with me (it makes me feel clever ), I don't think the vote looks too good. Or, it all depends on Mira's role. If she turns out to be a wolf then Inzil will be more or less cleared in my mind, but if not Inzil looks worse.
He also considered Fea but didn't vote for her simply because he didn't think she was a wolf, and then attacked the Lottie-wagoners, saying the bandwagon was suspicious but two of its members (Lommy & Legate) were not and one (Green) got the benefit of doubt because of being busy. Why exactly was the Lottie-train suspicious then?

Looks like I have to go through this one more time.

I didn't know what to make of Fea. I honestly considered the idea she was the Cobbler, but then again her vote was something a Fea of any stripe might have done. So I wasn't prepared to vote for her.

I don't think I ever said Legate and Lommy were not suspicious, but as I looked back over things I couldn't find much else, beyond their votes for Lottie, that pointed to which of them, if either, was the more likely wolf. At any rate, when I voted it didn't look as if either one of them would have been lynched, and I didn't want to simply throw away my vote that way.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It will not actually help us, but if nobody had their retractions, it wouldn't help the wolves either, and that's what I'm after... However I see I'm not getting much support. Quite a few people have said they want to save their votes because they've been in a situation before where their vote has been the decisive one. Might well be there's a wolf among them, but I have no time to pursue that further now.

Considering the fact that very few have used their retractables, I would say it's highly likely there's wolves in the group that hasn't. I don't see how not wanting to waste a tool that could just as easily be used against wolves as to aid them, is a mark of evil.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

[QUOTEww]Tweedledee always has good insights on shtuff and she seems very good at the game, therefore if she is a wolf, then she would be huge asset to the wolf team. This is my reasoning for voting for Tweedledee.

Who has said that? I don't disagree, I just can't for the life in me remember having seen anyone talk about Brinn before your vote.[/QUOTE]

That line of reasoning from ww is very poor coming from an innocent. But you don't disagree?

Conclusion? As with Glirdan, I've found myself agreeing with some of the things she's said. I didn't like the way she suspected Nerwen for making what I thought were reasonable questions about ww. There was also the way she appears to have something of a double standard when it comes to Morsul and Lottie, and allowing for their playing styles.
The way she toDay insinuates that those who want to keep their retractables in case they need them are possibly wolfy for wanting to do so is at best a long shot, and at worst a furry plan to fabricate some cases on people.
I think I'm on the fence for the moment, but if she starts in on people who aren't willing to dump their retractables that could change.

x/d with all since my last

[satansaloser2005]

Sally demands an explanation for this suspicion crap. Like, seriously?

I'll explain the thing with Morsul and Shasta though, because I can see how you would be confused. I suspected Morsul already and had been planning to say something about it, so when Shasta did as well I was like "Look, yay, support, I'm not crazy". Then Shasta says he realized Morsul was kidding (yeah, because NO ONE has every hidden behind jokes before, oh noes, never) and I thought it was strange because for pity's sake, that was a quick flip flop and quite the lame excuse. So then I made it clear that I suspected Morsul anyway, 'cause I hadn't been following Shasta in the first place, he just happened to post first.


Oh, and did no one see that I'd been suspecting Lottie from the beginning? Sure, Legate can say he started the trend but I said "Something's not right with her" well toward the beginning of the Day. (Yes, I know, I was clearly wrong, but that's not the point.) And I never went toward a "Save Lottie she's innocent" point of view. The only thing I said that could be read like that was that I wanted to not kill her on Day One (AGAIN) and that I thought there were better candidates.



Really, this is ridiculous. I think you've all been putting things in your tea.


As a side note, I'm leaving now, but I'll be back later and will look at people. I want to look at newbienewbie again because I was still getting alarm bells there a bit, but I don't want people to waste time suspecting me (especially with such crappy reasoning) when there are cleary wolves to catch.


Back later! Behave until then, please?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nienna

Ooops sorry dear it must have gotten lost in the shuffle. Mira's Day One participation are generally just banter and she has a tendency to air on the side of defensiveness where her "people" are concerned in the early stages(by "people" I mean mainly her RL friends). So to me her measly 3 posts yesterDay were very Mira-esque.

Okay thanks. I haven't changed my mind about her ww suspicion, but I'd like to hear more from her.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Yes and no. If it's early in the game, I'd say the wolves are highly unlikely to make a gamble like that. Later on, however, maybe.

Nope, they can do it as early as on day 1 if their fellow comes under heavy suspicion (or if they think there's no chance that their fellow is lynched). It's happened before and will continue to happen because it's just so darn convenient for the wolves.

I found ww's behaviour unnerving also, and Agan comes across as somewhat overly agressive here.

Seriously it was a newbie's first post.

Those whom she suspects. All this seems fairly reasonable, except Morsul on the suspect list because of his 'style', whereas later she seem to want to give Lottie an allowance for the same thing.

Not the same thing because their styles are different. Morsul's struck me as opportunistic whereas Lottie was mostly just too over-confident to my liking.

She doesn't have Nerwen on her 'guilty' list, which makes me think Agan looks better there. It would have been all too easy to keep up that suspicion, if Agan was a wolf.

No it wouldn't. If Nerwen had given me a reason to suspect her beyond her treatment of ww, I would have - regardless of my role.

I've done that before, and been wrong.

Me too and that's why I said Lommy and Mac may laugh at me (they both have been targets for my forceful and unjust attacks more than once ).

Going to post it in the BD Dreams?

Nope because as long as the game is running I'm not going to talk of it outside of the game thread. Who knows, I might be the seer who just dreamed of Wolfziladun, or it might be a lie I told for a reason unknown to you.
In any case, I can't remember anything more about the dream so I don't think I will even after the game is over.

I don't think I ever said Legate and Lommy were not suspicious, but as I looked back over things I couldn't find much else, beyond their votes for Lottie, that pointed to which of them, if either, was the more likely wolf.

Yes but what was so suspicious about the Lottie-wagon in the first place? You just decided it was fishy but when looking at the Lottie-voters, none of them was suspicious enough to receive your vote. Usually people and their reasons for voting make a bandwagon suspicious, not the other way round.

I don't see how not wanting to waste a tool that could just as easily be used against wolves as to aid them, is a mark of evil.

By itself it's not, but I think it's far more likely that the wolves use their retraction to kill an innocent than the other way round. Yeah I know they can be useful to the innocents too, but their benefit for the wolves is more imminent.

That line of reasoning from ww is very poor coming from an innocent. But you don't disagree?

What I don't disagree about is that Brinn is a good player and, if a wolf, asset to the wolf team (I've been a wolf with her and heck she's brilliant). I can hardly disagree (in the sense I understand the word) on what ww claims to be the reason for his vote.

Conclusion? As with Glirdan, I've found myself agreeing with some of the things she's said.

Most of the things, I would say.

I think I'm on the fence for the moment, but if she starts in on people who aren't willing to dump their retractables that could change.

I don't like that comment. I wasn't planning to do it, but that looks too much like a threat. Yeah yeah I might be totally overestimating how important the wolves consider the retrackies, but still.

I think sally should be suspected more often if it gets her to speak seriously. :-p

[Nogrod]

(~~~) *grin appearing*

The croquet-game has been cancelled!

(~~~) *grin vanishing*


(~~~) *grin re-appearing*

Finally back and reading, that is.

(~~~) *grin vanishing*

[Mirandir]

Oooh not a ton for me to catch up on even though the Day's more than half over. *approves*

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I suspected Mira and Morsul more.

Yes dear, would you care to explain that one for me please?

I also really disliked Zil's vote for me. If he could explain that too, I'd appreciate it.

Originally Posted by Nienna

Ooops sorry dear it must have gotten lost in the shuffle. Mira's Day One participation are generally just banter and she has a tendency to air on the side of defensiveness where her "people" are concerned in the early stages(by "people" I mean mainly her RL friends). So to me her measly 3 posts yesterDay were very Mira-esque.

Dead on.

So enough about me.

I tend to trust Lottie's shirriff reveal, since I see no reason not to. Her suspicion of Greenie makes me suspicious of her by default, but I'll have to go through and look a bit deeper at her posts.

So based on that information, I'll probably vote for Agan, Zil, or Greenie unless they manage to clear themselves in my eyes.

I'm also on the fence about Morsul and sally. Morsul's "vote of opportunity" seems mighty suspicious.

Said analysis of Greenie's posts might take a while since it's finals week and I reeeeally need to not get another D in seminar. Just sayin'.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinn

No one corrected me, so I wasn't given a reason to think otherwise. Would you like to still show me these serious points against Lottie? Not that it's terribly relevant since it's pretty much certain now she's not a wolf, but I'm still not sure what points you're talking about.

I don't have time to look them up now (it's late and we share net with Greenie) but you should find them by searching for "lottie" or "loslote" in any Loslote-voter's (or Aganzir's) post. I was mostly wary of her apologetic, suspiciousness-admitting attitude which I associate with relative-newbie wolves.

One word about the retractions - I think the one-retraction rule is mostly because if somebody has to leave early and doesn't know if s/he can be back, so then s/he can vote and switch it if the situation has totally changed. In that sense, it does make sense, although I personally dislike reatractable votes too.


edit: xed with Nog and Mir

[Thinlómien]

Ai ai, that Mira post screams evil to me. The problem is, I always suspect her, regardless of her role.

[wintywinty]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Grar. I want Lottie to live to see another Day, if only one.

++Legate


For being too excited to lynch Lottie.

Also....for Wilwa....

They're painting their voteses red
They're painting their voteses red
etc.

(I'll do a whole parody if I survive the Night, I swear.)

This seems suspicious, as if he is attempting to remain innocent, but throws away a vote on someone who is obviously not going to be lynched, not helping save Lottie, even though he states he wants her to live.

[Aganzir]

GUILTY
Morsul. I still don't like his reasoning but I don't know if I'm reading too much into it because apparently everyone else (who has played with him before) is fine with it.

Mira. I don't have anything on her except for her weird treatment of winty, but she's staying here until she gives me a reason to consider her innocent. If she's a wolf, I'll be almost convinced Inzil is not.

winty. An extremely fishy explanation for his vote. First, no one had said anything like that about Brinn (Brinn's qualities as a player were discussed very little anyway). Plus (as Brinn said) the explanation seems quite obviously fabricated. I don't know how much of it to put down on his being a newbie (and I want to know how much he knows through Lottie), but generally honesty is better than lying, even if you have to admit you've down something silly.

Inzil. I don't like his comment about the Lottie wagon. Plus he seems to trust Lottie enough to consider her suspects (or all of them except for, conveniently, Greenie) serious enough to go through them himself but still thinks it's appropriate of me to ask Lottie why she's so sure... If he's a wolf I think Greenie should be looked closely at, and the other way round (I'm just afraid it would be too obvious though). And of course knowing his role would shed some light on Mira's. Actually I might well vote for him today.

INNOCENT
Lottie. Although I do think her suspicion of me is bad (obviously since I'm innocent) and she's generally too convinced about people's guilt too early.

Lommy. Speaks sensibly and things I can easily agree on. Of course there's a chance she's fooling me magnificently but at the moment I'm not too concerned about that, because she really seems innocent.

Isabell. Speaks sense and I find myself agreeing with her, although I'm not sure if I should be worried because I also have a history of mistrusting her when she's innocent (ie always, except for her first game, but it doesn't count because we were fellows).

Nienna. She is sensible and has a generally innocent air.

skip. I think he looks quite innocent, and of course I might misjudge him but I don't think he'd ask if the wolves knew the cobbler's identity if he was one.

Legate. Had a small dispute with Inzil, I don't know what to make of it but I'd like to know Inzil's role for sure soon. Seems quite innocentish.

EITHER
Nog. Still looks innocent enough, and he nailed Fea which I don't think a wolfish Noggy had done (hmm except that one of my first lessons was that Wolfgrod does anything that makes him look innocent, even at a cost to his pack). Okay I don't think he's guilty but I'm not convinced about his innocence either so he's here.

sally. Seems to be today's favourite lynch target. Mostly banter and that's almost enough of a reason for me to vote for her. Plus her death would shed light on other people. I think her reaction to being suspected was outraged in an innocentish way, though.

Glirdan. Haven't formed an opinion, and because I want to go to sleep soon it will have to wait.

Shasta. See Glirdan.

Greenie. No new material, people have brought up points against her but I will have to look at it, and I don't think her vote was so bad.

Brinniel. Innocentish and sensible but her reaction to winty's reasoning didn't sit quite right with me. Will have to see more.

Nerwen. She's the last because I'm at the moment rather undecided about her. I didn't like how she jumped on winty's day 1 vote (come on he's a newbie), but apart from that she's been innocentish. However she's Nerwen so you never know.

[Mirandir]

Apparently I was just kidding on the "this might take a while" thing. WW is way more entertaining than studying.

#30 banter, says participation will be shoddy

Can't say there's anything really suspicious about that.

#61 Questions my analysis of winty's vote, but doesn't find it suspicious. Find's Agan helpful but admits she always suspects her when she's innocent so maybe she's a wolf now. Apologizes for flip flopping. Doesn't like Lottie's "gut feeling" post. Thinks Lommy acting "purposefully mysterious" is wierd, but doesn't know if it's suspicious.

Sort of defends winty, isn't sure about Agan or Lommy, and doesn't like Lottie's logic. Lottie is now a known innocent. .

#86 Admits reasoning is "outrageously bad," afraid Lottie will become typical Day 1 easy lynch but is the only one she has a valid point on. Votes Lottie.

Unless I missed something, I wouldn't call not liking gut feelings a valid point. Pretty much I don't like it because now Lottie's a known innocent. But then again, hindsight is 20/20.

So pretty much my entire suspicion of Greenie is based on the fact that she voted Lottie yesterDay. Well that backfired. *headdesk*

[Thinlómien]

...? Now winwin seriously baffles me. I'll think about it toMorrow if we're both alive - now I'm too tired (just suddenly got veery sleepy, but after all it's midnight here...)

So, my vote

++Glirdan

I'm willing to give Zil the benefit of doubt for toDay, and I'm not convinced enough of Sally's guilt to give her a third vote, especially now that her recent defense has left me with mixed feelings. Mira? Brinn? Nog? Not enough actual points to make a vote against them. So Glirdan it is. For reasons:

Originally Posted by me

- Glirdan (says the bandwagon is ridiculous and asks why get rid of Lottie since she's good at spotting wolves... really, most of us are good at that at our best, and should we lynch those who aren't just to ensure they'll never learn?)

Originally Posted by me, bolding added only now to emphasise the point

Suspicious
Glirdan - weird comment against the Lottie wagon, had all the wagoned-for people on his suspicion list late yesterDay yet still made a throwaway vote and refused to take sides.

Have a good chat and lynch a wolf! Good night!


edit: xed with Agan & Mira

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Ai ai, that Mira post screams evil to me. The problem is, I always suspect her, regardless of her role.

And how many of the times you've suspected me have I actually been evil?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Mirandir

Yes dear, would you care to explain that one for me please?

How about you first explain to me...

wintywinty's vote is more suspicious. I do agree with whoever suggested it might be of a wolfish nature and xe was told to act newbieish to allay suspicion. Or it could be a newbie mistake.

...why his vote is more suspicious because it could go either way? That was my main issue about your post, not the fact that you defended Fea.
Do you also want me to explain again why I suspected Morsul more than Lottie?

Oh and do you have any other reason to consider voting for me but that I suspect you?

And wintywinty now that you're apparently here, could you please answer my question? Who said Brinn is a good player?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

*is sad about Boro's death*
(...)
Lottie I'll have to go through sally myself before judging her but I think you're maybe a bit too subjective in your analysis (at least Lommy and Macalaure are allowed to laugh at this comment). Like, you've already decided she's a wolf so you consequentially see everything she says or does in that light.
And yeah this is Aganwolf defending her fellow and whatnot (by the way last night I had a dream I was a wolf. Inzil was too).

I'd like to know that too (and not only because I'm one of her wolves) and I would totally be suspecting her because of it if she wasn't the other Shirriff... Because I have yet to see a day 1 when someody pins down all the wolves at once (oh wait I did that in Mith's game! But granted it was jokingly ;-)).

First of all, the *is sad about Boro's death* line just screams wolf.

Secondly, it's been done. Several times. Read Morsul's game; read Gwath's game; read Sally's game - I find wolves on Day 1 and, usually, get lynched for it. It's sort of my trademark.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ah ha! Main advocate? I don't think so. I thought other people (Greenie at least) had good points about you and I found you suspicious, but it was not enough to vote for you. I suspected Mira and Morsul more. And if I had voted for you, you'd accuse me of jumping into the bandwagon now, eh?
And what's this real contribution you're talking about? How is your contribution different from or better than mine?

Mostly you seemed to be calling for dumping retractables and my/Mira's death. The retractables issue wasn't that helpful, as it's something people didn't really get behind or hate, so it made you seem like you were contributing when you really weren't helping all that much.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

out of everyone who was not him or you, you wanted to say, I assume. Anyway... in contrary to people wondering about Lottie's suspects, I suggest we really consider them strongly (especially those which they agreed on). Of course, they are subjectively biased by the fact that it's two Shiriffs who have something in common who are making them, but the fact that two innocent people can communicate and agree on somebody is worth taking into account. Of course a bunch of innocents can be misled by pursuing the same illusion (and it happens all the time), but still - two brains know more than one. How many PMs did you guys exchange, Lottie? Especially the last Night? (Not sure if you are any longer around, but anyway, I think this might be a good thing to say anyway, as for us to take into account in the future - the more you've been able to put together the better.) For that matter, did you or Boro have any fears as to that you might be targeted at Night? (Like that Boro's apology to Fea in the last minute... when I saw it, it seemed like rather an unfortunate thing to say.)

By that point we'd given up on secrecy. And yeah, we did guess that one of us would die. We hoped for a Ranger-miracle, but decided that if one of us ended up dying, the other would reveal so as to give the village a known innocent.

We usually weren't online at the same time, but late in Day 1 we exhanged a lot of pms, and (I think) twenty eight pms over all. Maybe four last Night.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay Inzil's vote is based on my suspicions of Mira. While I have nothing against people agreeing with me (it makes me feel clever ), I don't think the vote looks too good. Or, it all depends on Mira's role. If she turns out to be a wolf then Inzil will be more or less cleared in my mind, but if not Inzil looks worse.

Because, of course, there's no such thing as wolf-on-wolf, and no such thing as a misled innocent.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And I don't like Lottie the Known Innocent being convinced I'm a baddie with flimsy and subjective "I've already decided you're a wolf and do my best to pick up only those things you've done that back up my theory" reasons. If she wasn't a known innocent I'm pretty certain wouldn't be picking a fight with her but attacking her in return.
(...)
The thing is, nobody said that you have good insights and you're a very good player/wolf - during the day. Winty says it's something many have said, but who has he heard it from if no one has said so here? Lottie how much have you been talking to him about the Downs, and have you praised Brinn to him?

Don't worry; proper analysis to follow.

And I haven't talked to him at all about Downers. We've talked about general game play, but not specifics.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nope, they can do it as early as on day 1 if their fellow comes under heavy suspicion (or if they think there's no chance that their fellow is lynched). It's happened before and will continue to happen because it's just so darn convenient for the wolves.
(...)
Not the same thing because their styles are different. Morsul's struck me as opportunistic whereas Lottie was mostly just too over-confident to my liking.

Oh, so now wolf-on-wolf exists. (See quote about Zil above.)

My style is always over-confident, mostly because I always am.

EDIT: xed since Nog

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by wintywinty

This seems suspicious, as if he is attempting to remain innocent, but throws away a vote on someone who is obviously not going to be lynched, not helping save Lottie, even though he states he wants her to live.

She. Sally is a she. And yes, that is rather suspicious, and one of my (and other people's) main points.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

GUILTY
Morsul. I still don't like his reasoning but I don't know if I'm reading too much into it because apparently everyone else (who has played with him before) is fine with it.

Mira. I don't have anything on her except for her weird treatment of winty, but she's staying here until she gives me a reason to consider her innocent. If she's a wolf, I'll be almost convinced Inzil is not.

winty. An extremely fishy explanation for his vote. First, no one had said anything like that about Brinn (Brinn's qualities as a player were discussed very little anyway). Plus (as Brinn said) the explanation seems quite obviously fabricated. I don't know how much of it to put down on his being a newbie (and I want to know how much he knows through Lottie), but generally honesty is better than lying, even if you have to admit you've down something silly.

Inzil. I don't like his comment about the Lottie wagon. Plus he seems to trust Lottie enough to consider her suspects (or all of them except for, conveniently, Greenie) serious enough to go through them himself but still thinks it's appropriate of me to ask Lottie why she's so sure... If he's a wolf I think Greenie should be looked closely at, and the other way round (I'm just afraid it would be too obvious though). And of course knowing his role would shed some light on Mira's. Actually I might well vote for him today.

INNOCENT
Lottie. Although I do think her suspicion of me is bad (obviously since I'm innocent) and she's generally too convinced about people's guilt too early.

Lommy. Speaks sensibly and things I can easily agree on. Of course there's a chance she's fooling me magnificently but at the moment I'm not too concerned about that, because she really seems innocent.

Isabell. Speaks sense and I find myself agreeing with her, although I'm not sure if I should be worried because I also have a history of mistrusting her when she's innocent (ie always, except for her first game, but it doesn't count because we were fellows).

Nienna. She is sensible and has a generally innocent air.

skip. I think he looks quite innocent, and of course I might misjudge him but I don't think he'd ask if the wolves knew the cobbler's identity if he was one.

Legate. Had a small dispute with Inzil, I don't know what to make of it but I'd like to know Inzil's role for sure soon. Seems quite innocentish.

EITHER
Nog. Still looks innocent enough, and he nailed Fea which I don't think a wolfish Noggy had done (hmm except that one of my first lessons was that Wolfgrod does anything that makes him look innocent, even at a cost to his pack). Okay I don't think he's guilty but I'm not convinced about his innocence either so he's here.

sally. Seems to be today's favourite lynch target. Mostly banter and that's almost enough of a reason for me to vote for her. Plus her death would shed light on other people. I think her reaction to being suspected was outraged in an innocentish way, though.

Glirdan. Haven't formed an opinion, and because I want to go to sleep soon it will have to wait.

Shasta. See Glirdan.

Greenie. No new material, people have brought up points against her but I will have to look at it, and I don't think her vote was so bad.

Brinniel. Innocentish and sensible but her reaction to winty's reasoning didn't sit quite right with me. Will have to see more.

Nerwen. She's the last because I'm at the moment rather undecided about her. I didn't like how she jumped on winty's day 1 vote (come on he's a newbie), but apart from that she's been innocentish. However she's Nerwen so you never know.

Niiiice. This also screams wolf. Morsul, Mira, WW, and Zil, huh? All of those are easy suspicions who could make an easy bandwaggon. And may I just point out that the three people I think are your packmates happen to be in your "either" category, and that you are rather flip-floppy on Sally and Greenie, and have no opinion on Glirdy?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Back from Alice in Wonderland to... Alirin in Wonderland. Okay, let's see...

Originally Posted by Nerwen

This looks to me a lot like a wolf preparing to leap on an easy victim (or turn on a packmate, whatever), then hastily going into damage control mode when it doesn't work out.

I have actually noticed that earlier too, just before I have left. I am keeping it in the back of my head, though my thoughts about sally are not particularly clear at the moment.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Sally demands an explanation for this suspicion crap. Like, seriously?

I'll explain the thing with Morsul and Shasta though, because I can see how you would be confused. I suspected Morsul already and had been planning to say something about it, so when Shasta did as well I was like "Look, yay, support, I'm not crazy". Then Shasta says he realized Morsul was kidding (yeah, because NO ONE has every hidden behind jokes before, oh noes, never) and I thought it was strange because for pity's sake, that was a quick flip flop and quite the lame excuse. So then I made it clear that I suspected Morsul anyway, 'cause I hadn't been following Shasta in the first place, he just happened to post first.


Oh, and did no one see that I'd been suspecting Lottie from the beginning? Sure, Legate can say he started the trend but I said "Something's not right with her" well toward the beginning of the Day. (Yes, I know, I was clearly wrong, but that's not the point.) And I never went toward a "Save Lottie she's innocent" point of view. The only thing I said that could be read like that was that I wanted to not kill her on Day One (AGAIN) and that I thought there were better candidates.



Really, this is ridiculous. I think you've all been putting things in your tea.

But this sounds a rather too over-the-top defensive thing and somehow, the defense sounds just fabricated. That didn't help you at least in my eyes, sally. But whatever...

I am sure I had several more important things to say, but as I did not happen to quote them, I apparently forgot them. Okay, one of them was that I don't have any idea about Glirdan, and he does not seem suspicious to me (or suspicious enough to suspect him, if you get my meaning) as he does to many other people. Otherwise... something of Zil's replies made me think that he would be a lot more aggressive if he were a Wolf, on the other hand maybe he just doesn't want to retaliate on me as it would be dangerous for him... but anyway, I am still unsure about him. And yes, one last thing was probably Brinn, whose answer did not convince me about that there were not ulterior motives in not mentioning (nobody said she'd have to look at it herself, but she could have proposed it) looking at the bandwagon she was in (for more details to get a clear idea about what I mean by this look at one of my first posts toDay).

EDIT: x-ed with about ten posts since WW

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

First of all, the *is sad about Boro's death* line just screams wolf.

Oh. I'm sorry. It was intended to scream somebody who likes Boro and is happy to play with him for the first time in a year and doesn't approve of him getting killed after just one day.

Mostly you seemed to be calling for dumping retractables and my/Mira's death. The retractables issue wasn't that helpful, as it's something people didn't really get behind or hate, so it made you seem like you were contributing when you really weren't helping all that much.

Yeah because I suspected Mira. Correct me if I'm wrong but although I also suspected you, I don't think I was ever calling for your death.
And because people didn't have an opinion about what I said, I wasn't being helpful? I wasn't contributing but tried to look as if I were? Sorry but that's ridiculous.

Don't worry; proper analysis to follow.

I doubt it. You've already decided I'm a wolf.

And I haven't talked to him at all about Downers. We've talked about general game play, but not specifics.

Okay in that case I really wonder what to make of his comment, and I might vote for him because of it.

[wintywinty]

If Lottie was not the sherriff, then the real sherriff we tell everyone that they are the sheriff, rather than her. Only two people have not posted since Lottie made the statement that she was the other sheriff, and they are Greenie and Glirdan. Therefore, either Lottie is definitely telling the truth and was the sheriff, or Greenie/Glirdan was the other sheriff, and if they do not say they are the next time they post, Lottie's statement must be true, and we can assume that everything she says in the best interest of the villagers.

[wintywinty]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

GUILTY
winty. An extremely fishy explanation for his vote. First, no one had said anything like that about Brinn (Brinn's qualities as a player were discussed very little anyway). Plus (as Brinn said) the explanation seems quite obviously fabricated. I don't know how much of it to put down on his being a newbie (and I want to know how much he knows through Lottie), but generally honesty is better than lying, even if you have to admit you've down something silly.

Ok, I admit, my first vote was a newbie mistake; I have not played this game online before, and I did not want to admit my mistake (I hate being wrong, Lottie can attest to that.), which was my reason for saying that about Brinn.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

How about you first explain to me...

...why his vote is more suspicious because it could go either way? That was my main issue about your post, not the fact that you defended Fea.
Do you also want me to explain again why I suspected Morsul more than Lottie?

Oh and do you have any other reason to consider voting for me but that I suspect you?

That was really me floundering for something to contribute than anything else. And no, I got the Morsul thing, and so far you suspicion is really the only reason I'm considering voting for you. I could look for more basis if you'd like.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I am sure I had several more important things to say, but as I did not happen to quote them, I apparently forgot them. Okay, one of them was that I don't have any idea about Glirdan, and he does not seem suspicious to me (or suspicious enough to suspect him, if you get my meaning) as he does to many other people. Otherwise... something of Zil's replies made me think that he would be a lot more aggressive if he were a Wolf, on the other hand maybe he just doesn't want to retaliate on me as it would be dangerous for him... but anyway, I am still unsure about him. And yes, one last thing was probably Brinn, whose answer did not convince me about that there were not ulterior motives in not mentioning (nobody said she'd have to look at it herself, but she could have proposed it) looking at the bandwagon she was in (for more details to get a clear idea about what I mean by this look at one of my first posts toDay).

Inzilawolf is usually either way more agressive or way more agreeable as a wolf, depending on the context. In this game he's somewhat defensive and even a little detached, which makes me think he's innocent (and probably an ordo).

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oh. I'm sorry. It was intended to scream somebody who likes Boro and is happy to play with him for the first time in a year and doesn't approve of him getting killed after just one day.

Okay, this makes sense...but what it does, in my opinion, is scream somebody who wants to act like they would never have Night-killed Boro.

Yeah because I suspected Mira. Correct me if I'm wrong but although I also suspected you, I don't think I was ever calling for your death.
And because people didn't have an opinion about what I said, I wasn't being helpful? I wasn't contributing but tried to look as if I were? Sorry but that's ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous; it's something a wolf would do, because it seriously helps their image while keeping them out of excessive danger.

I doubt it. You've already decided I'm a wolf.

Yeah, I have, but I can't lynch you all on my lonesome - other villagers have to suspect you, too, and they're not going to blindly follow me without any explanation.

EDIT: xed with people

[A Little Green]

Phew. Here at last, been running all day and now it's getting late again. I so wish the Day and Night phases were the other way round... So if I seem to be over-reacting (I fear I am) it's because I'm tired. This will be a mostly self-defensive post. The next one will include something rather more relevant to the game, I hope.

Originally Posted by Lottie

So then, Greenie. Her vote post was apologetic, she voted when I was starting to lead the votes (prime bandwaggon spot) and claimed not to have any real reason. If there is a wolf among these four, and I think there is, I'd bet it's Greenie.

Seriously, I know being annoyed won't exactly help a thing, but I can't but be a tad annoyed. What, exactly, are your reasons for suspecting me? I suspected you yesterDay and happened to get the internet after Lommy (we're using the same one) so I voted you only after some others had done that already. That, I suppose, made my vote bandwaggonish. I had a reason to suspect you, I didn't have reason to suspect anyone else, so I voted you. Simple as that. And I think I had voiced my suspicion of you before the bandwagon against you had even started, so you can't claim my vote was just jumping on the bandwagon. As for the apologetic tone of my vote post, I was being honest. It did pop into my mind that I might be pursuing what would turn out a typical Day 1 easy lynch. I made the mistake of saying it aloud – if I had just played more confident than I was no one would have made such a fuss about my vote. Give me better arguments, please.

Originally Posted by Nienna

votes Lottie (3rd vote) with what she knows is outrageously bad reasoning

Not quite! Outrageously bad phrasing, more like. The outrageously bad had to do with that I was kind of worried about a typical easy Day 1 lynch, but still wanted to vote for Lottie who I suspected. My reasons for voting Lottie, while not all that great, were still substantial by Day 1 standards.

EDIT: eurgh x-ed with a horse (hehe what a typo, was supposed to write 'horde' )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay in that case I really wonder what to make of his comment, and I might vote for him because of it.

I am not sure if I will be taking such drastic measures right now, especially as I am not used to vote people based on just two or three posts with almost no content (but in this case I wouldn't be probably given much of a choice), nevertheless, it really makes me raise my eyebrows. So, ww - was your comment about Brinn something random, or where did it come from? (From Night talks to simply having to have an excuse, I'll be fine with any answer you provide Just it would be nice to see you a bit more engaged in the dialogue when somebody is actually asking you something or talking about you, that's how we mostly do things around here.)

Otherwise... I am really thinking whether Lottie is not a bit too over the top with suspecting Agan, it's happened to me too a few times (one time I remember in particular when I went punctually through all somebody's posts, pointed wonderful totally 100% proofs of his wolfishness, then we lynched him and he was innocent. And I got lynched the next Day. Of course, Lottie doesn't need to worry about that... anyway, it was supposed to say that zeal needs to cool down also once in a while to see things straight). I don't see anything bad on Agan this far... (if she is a Wolf, like so many times, I will end up kicking myself, but at least it won't be any change from the norm.)

Methinks me make myself a list, then vote and go to sleep. (Though beware of Nogrod, my friends, he returned from cinema with us and he's apparently reading the thread and writing something frumiously long... I'm sort of expecting it to pop up at any moment.)

EDIT: x-ed with one WW, M, L and LG

[wintywinty]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I am not sure if I will be taking such drastic measures right now, especially as I am not used to vote people based on just two or three posts with almost no content (but in this case I wouldn't be probably given much of a choice), nevertheless, it really makes me raise my eyebrows. So, ww - was your comment about Brinn something random, or where did it come from? (From Night talks to simply having to have an excuse, I'll be fine with any answer you provide Just it would be nice to see you a bit more engaged in the dialogue when somebody is actually asking you something or talking about you, that's how we mostly do things around here.)

I responded to what Agan was saying.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Give me better arguments, please.
Not quite! Outrageously bad phrasing, more like. The outrageously bad had to do with that I was kind of worried about a typical easy Day 1 lynch, but still wanted to vote for Lottie who I suspected. My reasons for voting Lottie, while not all that great, were still substantial by Day 1 standards.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

[*highlight]++ Lottie[/highlight*]

Oh, so not outrageously bad reasoning?

[wintywinty]

Originally Posted by wintywinty

If Lottie was not the sherriff, then the real sherriff we tell everyone that they are the sheriff, rather than her. Only two people have not posted since Lottie made the statement that she was the other sheriff, and they are Greenie and Glirdan. Therefore, either Lottie is definitely telling the truth and was the sheriff, or Greenie/Glirdan was the other sheriff, and if they do not say they are the next time they post, Lottie's statement must be true, and we can assume that everything she says in the best interest of the villagers.

Greenie posted, and did not say they were the other sherriff. Therefore, either Lottie's claim is true and we accept that she is innocent, or Glirdan is the other sheriff.

[Nienna]

I agree with Legate about Lottie and Agan. It seems like an innocent on innocent that I've seen pop up in other games. I'll need to take a closer look at Agan but since she's been one of the more prolific posters it may take awhile.

Edit: x-ed

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lottie

Oh, so not outrageously bad reasoning?

Yeah. I was referring to the reasoning that I'm afraid of a typical Day 1 easy lynch but still vote for you. My actual reasoning for suspecting you wasn't outrageously bad. If I still can't make this understood, I suppose I must blame being a non-native speaker for not being able to explain myself.

Originally Posted by Mira

Unless I missed something, I wouldn't call not liking gut feelings a valid point.

You did miss something. It was that she called every point she had a gut-feeling, also those that were actual reasoned points and not gut-feelings - which struck me as horribly fishy. But really, discussing this is not fruitful as far as I can see.

Now to write some actual substance. I'm sick of talking about myself.

[Glirdan]

Gah! Sorry I haven't been on at all today, haven't been home at all since yesterday morning and I'm just getting in now and have only been able to check up on who was killed and I am sad to see Boro gone. I am going to go back and read through things now.

EDIT: Xed with Greenie

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Yeah. I was referring to the reasoning that I'm afraid of a typical Day 1 easy lynch but still vote for you. My actual reasoning for suspecting you wasn't outrageously bad. If I still can't make this understood, I suppose I must blame being a non-native speaker for not being able to explain myself.

No, I get what you mean now.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nienna

I was pretty confident at that point that Lottie was innocent and was willing to vote for mostly anyone to save her.

Okay, but why were you pretty confident about her?

Originally Posted by winty

and if they do not say they are the next time they post, Lottie's statement must be true, and we can assume that everything she says in the best interest of the villagers.

Yes, I think we can rather safely assume that Lottie has the village's best interests at heart. But she is not the seer. She doesn't know anybody's role and can be as wrong as any of us.

Eurgh I had some other quotes I wanted to comment on but it seems I've lost them. Off to write a list and then vote. I'll probably be suspected for voting out of the blue this time () because I don't have much of an idea until I've looked at the list of villagers and considered each one in turn.

EDIT: x-ed with Glirdy and Lottie

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Gah! Sorry I haven't been on at all today, haven't been home at all since yesterday morning and I'm just getting in now and have only been able to check up on who was killed and I am sad to see Boro gone. I am going to go back and read through things now.

Glirdy's going over the top with acting innocent. First his Day 1 opening post where he enthused about hunting werewolves, now he (like Agan) expresses sorrow over the Night kill. Innocents (in my experience) don't do that. They'll explain why it's a bad thing that someone is gone, but they simply say that is is a bad thing and leave it at that.

[wintywinty]

Everyone has now posted after Lottie's claim of being the sherriff, and none have refuted, therefore Lottie was the other sherriff, is innocent, and can definitely be trusted.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lottie

No, I get what you mean now.

Ok, great. Really, I'm sorry if I've sounded cross, I'm just very very tired and it's very very late and I've been up since rather early morning.

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Okay, but why were you pretty confident about her?

I was confident about her for a few reasons. Boro's trust in her was adamant in a way that would be way too risky for wolves. She also started making sense and sounding confident and innocent.

Edit: x-ed

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A list...

'TWAS BRILIG:
Isabellkya – sounds more or less sensible in general, no reason to suspect right now
Agan – not suspicious this far, makes an effort and sounds, how to say it, "balanced" enough... okay, now I am starting to worry as I type this... but no, no, mustn't give in to paranoia. Leaving out of suspicion for now.
Lottie – Shiriff, apparently
Nerwen – no reason to suspect, looks innocent-ish this far
Lommy – there were a few moments when I have been slightly worried, but generally looks like innocent Lommie. I somewhat miss the flip-flopping though...

IN UFFISH THOUGHT HE STOOD:
Glirdan – like I said, I don't find him any suspicious in particular. Not innocent either, but...
Nogrod – Nogrod is hard to work with even if you saw more from him than his smile... what more to say.
Mira – I have to admit I don't have paid very good attention to her this far, at least she didn't do anything eyebrow-raising which I would notice and it made me jump off my chair or something.
Shasta – more or less nothing special
Morsul – hard to say, but some of his reactions were innocent Morsul-ish, so he's in the better half this far
Nienna – not much reading on her, there were a few things she said which looked sensible and genuine. I admit I haven't been focusing well enough on her.
Skip – now this guy could be - I have just such a funny feeling - a quite brilliantly doing newbie Wolf. (I can imagine how happy Agan would be if the two of them were Wolves.) Nevertheless, his generally reasonable behavior and all that make me just see him as a brilliantly doing innocent. This far I don't have any proofs of fishiness in his behavior. I'm sort of thinking that if he was, it would show sooner or later.
Greenie – hasn't posted much, like I said, if I were to point at one person from the Lottie wagon and say it's a Wolf, I'd probably choose her, but still, there's not enough for me to read her.

BEWARE THE JABBERWOCK:
Inzil – after seeing him react and taking Lottie's word, I could give him a pass at least for toDay. Watchful eye, though.
Wintywinty – there's been very little input from him and the very little input was not very positive. (But thanks for replying anyway, that clears things a bit.) I'd like to see more input, however, just to be able to actually make a better judgement.
Sally – I find many of the points which have been brought against her as having quite some grounds, and her self-defense didn't help much to convince me otherwise, rather a bit to the opposite. Questionable, at least.
Brinniel – worrying, she's been under my watchful eye and continues to be so.

Note please that the borders of the cathegories can be somewhat hazy and are very general. However I will likely be picking my vote from among the lowest part toDay.

EDIT: x-ed since my last

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Ok, great. Really, I'm sorry if I've sounded cross, I'm just very very tired and it's very very late and I've been up since rather early morning.

Not at all. And I'm sorry I'm trying to get you lynched, I just happen to think you're evil.

EDIT: xed since the post I quoted

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading.

*opens Notepad and prepares to respond on... everything *