WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Inziladun]

*NOTE*- many smilies eliminated

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I always wonder why, if the mod starts a day early, they allow the wolves to PM at the same time that the village can talk. I would so want to seize the opportunity to do something silly with my fellows if I was in that situation.

This was her first post, and I edited out some of the banter and things I didn't find signigicant.
Regarding the above statement, I'm not sure what, if anything, to make of it, but it seems like an odd thing to say.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey Shasta why does Fea's vote bother you? And why do you say 'still' when that's the first time you say it?

Brinn seems to be her normal self (ie she slightly rubs me the wrong way). But yeah she speaks sense, unlike most of the others.

By the way winty, we shouldn't edit our posts except to mark cross-posting. And it's true there are no reasons for votes yet, but that's why we're talking. Sooner or later somebody says or does something suspicious. Of course it helps if we have some corpses whose relations to living players we can observe, but first we need to get going.

No it doesn't make me evil, it only makes me unfaithful.

Greenie's tone strikes me as overly self-conscious! Nothing has indeed changed during my absence!

Usually when a newbie wolf enters the pack the older team members tell them to look just as new and ignorant and confused as they normally would and not to give away the slightest hint that they have received nightly counsel. And you have been a wolf enough times to know this is true. Or are you speculating about what you did last night? What exactly made you draw attention to winty after two posts? It looks like a Nerwolf looking for an easy lynch.

I thought the bit at the end about Nerwen was an overreaction. I didn't get anything like that from Nerwen's comments about ww.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The seer should keep in mind that they can't trust their dreams 100% because the cobbler appears as innocent. Last time I played in a game where the seer couldn't discern the cobbler's true identity, we wolves totally used it to our advantage and left him alive although he was supposedly a known innocent, and in the end we won because we could control his vote... Ah fond memories! But yeah that's why I think the cobbler should be killed as soon as possible (ie if the seer says 'X is an ordo' but we think 'X is damn suspicious' => lynch X), I've played in too many a game (three readily spring to mind) where people have said, 'Let's go for the most wolfish-looking person, we can deal with the cobbler later.' Well, when there are fewer and fewer people left, nobody wants to 'waste' a lynch on the cobbler and ta-da, soon the cobbler plays a crucial role in the evil victory.

Makes a good point about why someone looking like the Cobbler should be treated as a wolf, ie lynched. I agree with this.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Also, if the Cursed is turned (and the risk exists until they die and we see they were the Cursed), it practically destroys the seer's known innocent list.
I am saying this now as I've said this before, because it's better if the seer isn't sure than if the seer is too sure and wrong.

Again, makes sense.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Basically a wolf can vote in any way whatsoever, and playing a major role in the lynching of a wolf doesn't redeem anybody because wolves might as well sacrifice one for the pack to make the rest look good.

Yes and no. If it's early in the game, I'd say the wolves are highly unlikely to make a gamble like that. Later on, however, maybe.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Even if you don't understand why somebody does something, it doesn't make it silly. And what does it matter if they 'waste' their retractable votes early on? After all it's the wolves who benefit the most from them, and if everybody used theirs at once, we would eliminate the risk of wolf-organised lynches later.
I don't claim Fea's or winty's vote make them innocent, but Morsul is awfully quick to jump on them with flimsy reasoning.

Doesn't like Morsul suspecting the early voters, Fea and ww.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Using the retractable votes quickly might be worth some discussion... Personally I would be happy with everybody using theirs as soon as possible. Innocents vote alone, but the wolves, having a way to communicate, can use their votes in a much broader scale. I seem to remember a game (phantom's last one, for those who know. In addition to their normal daily vote, every player had 10 extra votes they could use whenever they wished) where pretty much everybody else but the wolves used some of their votes during the first days. The wolves saved all or most of theirs for later and won because they could use their extra votes against the village all at once.
And when there is something like 6 people left, two of whom wolves, it does make a difference if the wolves can retract and the others cannot.

I don't agree with the idea that everyone should get rid of their retractable vote for no purpose. I've already said why not, though, so I won't go into it again.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I was honestly expecting people would jump on my comment like 'You there are you trying to undermine the seer's authority and sow discord, you're a wolf!' so does the fact that you liked my point mean you're a wolf?

A response to Legate saying he agreed with her statements about the Seer and Cobbler.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yeah but there are some things that remain pretty much the same from game to game, among them that newbie wolves should behave as if they had no pack backing them up. And I don't think the "newbie or newbie wolf" question is a problem yet - thus far it's just a question, but you're trying to make it a problem. So we lynch winty and she/he was an innocent, and what have we left? An easy lynch and nothing else.

Responding to Nerwen, who said whether ww was a newbie or a newbie-wolf should be looked at. I don't think Nerwen was being too forceful on the subject. I found ww's behaviour unnerving also, and Agan comes across as somewhat overly agressive here.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Trust me, if I was looking for an easy day 1 lynch after a year's WW break, it would not be you.
Yeah his vote was random, but he is a newbie and at least I am willing to forgive newbies for things I wouldn't forgive for example people like you on day 1. It's alright to remark on it, but I think you were pushing it a tad too hard. Making it a bigger issue than it really was.

Explains why she doesn't like Nerwen's scrutiny of ww. I just don't get how Nerwen was over-the-top on that.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Thanks for saving my voice and speaking my thoughts aloud, dear husband.

Apparently agrees with me that ww may have just been following Fea or joking with his vote.

This next quote was Mira's:

I do agree with whoever suggested it might be of a wolfish nature and xe was told to act newbieish to allay suspicion. Or it could be a newbie mistake.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Your conclusion = it was suspicious? I see but a plus-minus-zero situation.

I agree with Agan, and that's one of the reasons I ended up voting Mira. That statement looked off.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Guilty
Mira. Suspecting newbies is just way too easy, and at the same time she clears Fea's vote (despite the 'on a more serious note' start, the whole comment looked like a joke though).
Morsul. I don't like his reasoning, he seems way too quick to jump to conclusions. But maybe it's just his style. Out of curiosity, how many games have you actually played in, Morsul?
Lottie. I didn't really see any issue with Lottie's earlier behaviour (granted I just skimmed through her first posts because I was in a hurry and didn't think they contained anything very important). However I disagree with her later comments on people - although I don't know if it's because of the content or the style they're written. And that moves her from Nonsense onto the Guilty list. It feels sort of weird that she should make an analysis of a player (Glirdy) who has only posted some random IC banter, like, who makes an analysis on day 1 when there's so little to go on? And hahaha it's sort of grotesque to use the abbreviations WW and SS for the newbies.

Those whom she suspects. All this seems fairly reasonable, except Morsul on the suspect list because of his 'style', whereas later she seem to want to give Lottie an allowance for the same thing.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nonsense
Glirdy. Content? Where's the actual content?
Nog. The first one to say he was uneasy about Lottie's behaviour, wasn't he? For relatively little reason, I think ("infamous mode of "no bad person, even insane one, would do that kind of a thing").
winty. Newbie so I won't vote for her/him today. I think people read too much into his/her vote.
sally. Content? Where's the actual content?
Shasta. It's a worse welcome than voting that you suspect me because of my natural lynch-happiness.
Fea. I'm alright with her vote.
Green. She's another one whose tone always sets me off and I always think she's too laid-back to have the village's best interests in mind, but so far I don't havean opinion of her.
Nerwen. I think her reaction to winty's vote was exaggerated and it looks as if she was looking for an easy lynch, but Nerwen and I also have a history of being on each other's throats (usually it starts with me on Nerwen's throat) so I'm going to wait for more evidence (like the word terrible ) before making a judgement.

She doesn't have Nerwen on her 'guilty' list, which makes me think Agan looks better there. It would have been all too easy to keep up that suspicion, if Agan was a wolf. Then again, there's the thought they could both be wolves.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nope for me it isn't. What if I died today or in the night and nobody else had thought of it (if it's not of any great strategic importance, I prefer to say what I mean to say right away and not wait for a more relevant situation that may never come)? And if the seer can't fully trust their dreams, it's better they keep it in mind from the start, not only if/when they come out with their name list. I have won a game as a wolf because the seer trusted the cobbler was innocent, and if there's something I love, it's making my best so other wolves can't use my tricks to win when I'm not on their side.

Responding to Nog, who said all Agan's talk of the Seer and Cobbler wasn't a major issue at the moment.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Greenie's last post moves her up towards my Innocent list because I agree with her (actually about everything) and she calls me lovely. However I wonder too if I should be worried that I don't suspect her, because usually when I do she's innocent.

Agrees with Geenie's post here.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ookay I've never played with Morsul before so I don't know how he's supposed to behave, but I don't like him nonetheless and he's still a candidate for my vote.

Morsul has been known to garner a few votes for his playing style.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think Greenie and Legate and Lommy do have a point about Lottie and I might vote for her too but then again I'm unsure because I don't know her style.

Now again, why is Morsul worse because of the way he plays, but she admits her problems with Lottie may also be due to the latter's style?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Sorry but would you care to speak English that's understandable even to a non-native speaker so I don't have to spend a twice longer time reading your post than I would need for anyone else?

As you might have noticed I didn't play in last game. And it's perfectly alright to point out what you find odd, but your thought process in the post I found suspicious seemed half-hearted and lazy and somehow far-fetched too (the part that Lommy or someone else pointed out). Give better reasons for your suspicions and I might change my mind about you.

All that was directed at Morsul. I had some trouble deciphering this myself.

Originally Posted by Aganzir;626749

highlight

++Mirandir[/highlight]

because thus far she seems the most suspicious to me.

oh and

highlight]--Mirandir[/highlight]
highlight]++Mirandir[/highlight]

as I dislike retrackies anyway, and this is what I think everyone should do because otherwise the wolves will probably use them against us in the end.

Votes Mira, puts her money where her mouth is on the retractables.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I think we really should keep track on who has used their retraction and who hasn't, and that everyone should use them asap, because as I've said they are more useful to the wolves than to us.

I think that's a decent idea.

That's it for Day 1.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay I don't have too much time now...

*is sad about Boro's death* :

Me too but I'm happy she was lynched in the end. That's what happens when you think you know better what Fea is doing...

No s*it Sherlock!
I don't think the connection was that obvious either. While skimming through the thread in the night I noticed there might be something between them, but I didn't actually think they were the Shirriffs. However it's likely that the wolves spend more time looking for possible connections than the innocents. But on the other hand, Lottie might have been a relatively easy lynch today... So I don't really know.

Good morning Brinn! And to be honest I'm quite surprised that Lommy is posting as early as at 11.

Lottie I'll have to go through sally myself before judging her but I think you're maybe a bit too subjective in your analysis (at least Lommy and Macalaure are allowed to laugh at this comment). Like, you've already decided she's a wolf so you consequentially see everything she says or does in that light.

I've done that before, and been wrong.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And yeah this is Aganwolf defending her fellow and whatnot (by the way last night I had a dream I was a wolf. Inzil was too).

Going to post it in the BD Dreams?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'd like to know that too (and not only because I'm one of her wolves) and I would totally be suspecting her because of it if she wasn't the other Shirriff... Because I have yet to see a day 1 when someody pins down all the wolves at once (oh wait I did that in Mith's game! But granted it was jokingly).

Certainly a fair question for Lottie, as to how she's so sure she's nailed the wolf-pack.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Ah ha! Main advocate? I don't think so. I thought other people (Greenie at least) had good points about you and I found you suspicious, but it was not enough to vote for you. I suspected Mira and Morsul more. And if I had voted for you, you'd accuse me of jumping into the bandwagon now, eh?
And what's this real contribution you're talking about? How is your contribution different from or better than mine?

Agan does have a point or two. She did throw suspicion Lottie's way, but hers didn't seem to be the loudest voice calling for Lottie's lynch.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay Inzil's vote is based on my suspicions of Mira. While I have nothing against people agreeing with me (it makes me feel clever ), I don't think the vote looks too good. Or, it all depends on Mira's role. If she turns out to be a wolf then Inzil will be more or less cleared in my mind, but if not Inzil looks worse.
He also considered Fea but didn't vote for her simply because he didn't think she was a wolf, and then attacked the Lottie-wagoners, saying the bandwagon was suspicious but two of its members (Lommy & Legate) were not and one (Green) got the benefit of doubt because of being busy. Why exactly was the Lottie-train suspicious then?

Looks like I have to go through this one more time.

I didn't know what to make of Fea. I honestly considered the idea she was the Cobbler, but then again her vote was something a Fea of any stripe might have done. So I wasn't prepared to vote for her.

I don't think I ever said Legate and Lommy were not suspicious, but as I looked back over things I couldn't find much else, beyond their votes for Lottie, that pointed to which of them, if either, was the more likely wolf. At any rate, when I voted it didn't look as if either one of them would have been lynched, and I didn't want to simply throw away my vote that way.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It will not actually help us, but if nobody had their retractions, it wouldn't help the wolves either, and that's what I'm after... However I see I'm not getting much support. Quite a few people have said they want to save their votes because they've been in a situation before where their vote has been the decisive one. Might well be there's a wolf among them, but I have no time to pursue that further now.

Considering the fact that very few have used their retractables, I would say it's highly likely there's wolves in the group that hasn't. I don't see how not wanting to waste a tool that could just as easily be used against wolves as to aid them, is a mark of evil.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

[QUOTEww]Tweedledee always has good insights on shtuff and she seems very good at the game, therefore if she is a wolf, then she would be huge asset to the wolf team. This is my reasoning for voting for Tweedledee.

Who has said that? I don't disagree, I just can't for the life in me remember having seen anyone talk about Brinn before your vote.[/QUOTE]

That line of reasoning from ww is very poor coming from an innocent. But you don't disagree?

Conclusion? As with Glirdan, I've found myself agreeing with some of the things she's said. I didn't like the way she suspected Nerwen for making what I thought were reasonable questions about ww. There was also the way she appears to have something of a double standard when it comes to Morsul and Lottie, and allowing for their playing styles.
The way she toDay insinuates that those who want to keep their retractables in case they need them are possibly wolfy for wanting to do so is at best a long shot, and at worst a furry plan to fabricate some cases on people.
I think I'm on the fence for the moment, but if she starts in on people who aren't willing to dump their retractables that could change.

x/d with all since my last