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Old 09-19-2007, 10:42 AM   #1
Volo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinlómien View Post
Really. It seems that the Swedish language makes everything sound silly. I mean, look at those names. If I didn't recognise them, I would never guess those names were from LotR - I would guess they were from some children's book. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find Snusmumriken (or whatever the name is) or Lilla My on the list.
Tove Jansson was the first thing I though of after reading the Swedish names.
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:34 PM   #2
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Fun topic, Lommy, and the Finnish words look so interesting! I like hearing your language; it's so quick and lively.*

There is an old thread which has posts on various languages and their translations of names and the poems. Here it is: Translations You might enjoy comparing some of the languages listed there.

Mac already listed a good many of the German names; let me add only a couple that he missed and some that are different in the first translation :

Gaffer - Ohm (an old word for grandfather)
Barrow-wight - Grabunhold (literally, "grave monster")
tweens - Zwiens (zwanzig is twenty, so it's a combination of twenty and teen, just like the English original)
neekerbreekers - Zirperkirper (I like ths word better than the new translation that Mac listed - the noise crickets make is called "zirpen", so I think it's carried over well)
Rosie Cotton - Rosie Hüttinger (This is derived from the etymology of the word "cotton" - it does not have to do with the fiber, but with a hut = Hütte.)


*I have wonderful memories of a Finnish trio I met years ago, who sang "The Gospel Train" in Finnish. It went so fast and sounded really cute!
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Old 09-19-2007, 01:44 PM   #3
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Thank you very much for the link!

Among other I found the old Russian translation interesting. But really, the French looks (and maybe sounds) terribly un-Tokienish.

And funny that a Finn started the thread there too.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:20 AM   #4
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That was indeed very interesting, Esty - I must say the Spanish one looked fascinating. Maybe I'll know enough Spanish someday to read LotR is Spanish... *dreams*
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Old 09-20-2007, 07:27 AM   #5
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Sorry for a lengthy post full of strange words...

I'm not exactly sure why I did this - probably just to satisfy my inner geek - but I went through Wikipedia to have a look at some well-known names in many other languages (for completeness, I also include those already given in here):


The Lord of the Rings

Gospodar prstenova (Bosnian)
Pán prstenů (Czech)
Ringenes Herre (Danish)
Der Herr der Ringe (German)
El seńor de los anillos (Spanish)
Le Seigneur des Anneaux (French)
Gospodar prstenova (Croatian)
Hringadróttinssaga (Icelandic)
Il Signore degli Anelli (Italian)
Žiedų valdovas (Lithuanian)
A gyűrűk ura (Hungarian)
In de Ban van de Ring (Dutch)
Ringenes herre (Norwegian)
Władca Pierścieni (Polish)
O Senhor dos Anéis (Portuguese)
Stăpânul Inelelor (Romanian)
Gospodar prstanov (Slovenian)
Taru sormusten herrasta (Finnish)
Sagan om ringen (Swedish)
Yüzüklerin Efendisi (Turkish)


Middle-earth

Srednja Zemlja (Bosnian)
Středozem (Czech)
Midgĺrd (Danish)
Mittelerde (German)
Tierra Media (Spanish)
Terre du Milieu (French)
Miđgarđur (Icelandic)
Terra di Mezzo (Italian)
Középfölde (Hungarian) (this one sounds very strange to my ear)
Midden-aarde (Dutch)
Midgard (Norwegian)
Śródziemie (Polish)
Terra Média (Portuguese)
Pământul de Mijloc (Romanian)
Srednji svet (Slovenian)
Keski-Maa (Finnish)
Midgĺrd (Swedish)
Orta Dünya (Turkish)


I looked at several others, too, but I think this is already getting too much here, so I'll just post the interesting (I think) ones.


Frodo Baggins

Frodo Sćkker (Danish)
Frodo Bolsón (Spanish)
Frodon Sacquet (French) (Frodon? Very stange...)
Zsákos Frodó (Hungarian)
Frodo Balings (Dutch)
Frodo Lommelun (Norwegian)
Frodo Bisagin (Slovenian)


Shire

Herredet (Danish)
Comarca (Spanish)
Comté (French)
Contea (Italian)
Gouw (Dutch)
Hobsyssel (Norwegian)
Condado (Portuguese)
Šajerska (Slovenian)

Is it just coincidence that the Finnish (Kontu) is so similar to the Romance ones?


Rivendell

Klřvedal (Danish)
Fondcombe (French)
Gran Burrone (Italian) (doesn't this sound like a nice Italian restaurant? )


Meriadoc Brandybuck

Meriadoc Brandigamo (Spanish) (doesn't this almost sound like Kalimac Brandagamba?)
Meriadoc Brandebouc (French)
Borbak Trufiádok (Hungarian)


Goldberry

Baya de Oro (Spanish)
Baie d'Or (French)
Baccador (Italian) (this simply doesn't sound female to my ear)


Barliman Butterbur

Cebadilla Mantecona (Spanish)
Prosper Poiredebeurré (French)


Witch-King

Rey Brujo (Spanish) (this sounds adequately scary, doesn't it? )
Roi-Sorcier (French)
Re Stregone (Italian)
Tovenaar-koning (Dutch)


Gríma Wormtongue

Gríma Lengua de Serpiente (Spanish)
Gríma langue de Serpent (French)
Gríma Vermilinguo (Italian) (I like this one )
Gríma Slangtong (Dutch)
Gríma Ormtunge (Norwegian)
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Old 09-23-2007, 02:48 PM   #6
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We have one more joke in the books than you!!!

Today I just accidentally came upon one thing in the Hobbit while reading the English original. While reading Gollum's riddle about "time" I was interested how it sounds in original; for I knew there was a sort of linguistic joke in there. What was my surprise when I realized that the sentence (or part of it, to be precise) is completely missing in the original! After a moment of thinking about it, however, I came to the conclusion that it's not that surprising after all. Translators often have to deal with untranslateable passages and have to translate them differently. Nevertheless, it's interesting: the Czech translator has made up one more sentence, which was not included in the original at all.

I immediately thought if there could be similar moments in any of the other translations; and if anyone knows about it. If I were sure there would be some positive answers, I'd make a new thread about that, but since I'm not sure if it is not unique case, I'll include it for now just in this post.

The "extra sentence" comes right after the riddle. I'm not sure if the joke would be explainable, but I will try, just in case anyone is interested.

In the original, we read:
Quote:
"This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down."
Poor Bilbo sat in the dark thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales, but not one of them had done all these things.
The Czech translation plays with the spelling. In the translation, Gollum is always lisping. That is not shown by any "sss" as in the original, but by changing the consonant "s" to "š" (pronounced [sh] as in "short"). That created an interesting situation for the translator.
The words "Slays king" are translated as "Krále školí" - if Gollum spoke normally, it would be "krále skolí". "Král" means "King". "Skolí" means "slays". "Školí" (derived from the word "škola" = school) means "teaches".
The translator probably had to make it clear that Time does not teach kings (though it does as well), but slays them. Thus, he expanded the sentence: "Though poor Bilbo understood that lisping Gollum meant "slays king", and not some teaching, he still could not remember that any of the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales had done all these things..."

It's a little thing, but interesting, nevertheless. I am not much sure if it's funny the other way around. Probably not at all. But perhaps someone could provide us with another, (more) interesting "play with words" he knows from his translation?
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Old 09-24-2007, 11:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
But perhaps someone could provide us with another, (more) interesting "play with words" he knows from his translation?
Quote:
But suddenly Gollum remembered thieving from nests long ago, and sitting under the river bank teaching his grandmother, teaching his grandmother to suck - "Eggses!" he hissed. "Eggses it is!"
The funny thing is that in Finnish eggs is a vulgar word for testicles. I admit it was very funny to read The Hobbit as a 13-year-old.
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