Werewolf XLVIII: When Virtual Becomes Reality

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Are you also not just distancing yourself from wolfishness by saying that you are wearing "wolf-colored glasses"

When I'm a wolf, I often wear wolf-coloured glasses, too.

Though I do it also when I'm innocent and am making a case against someone I suspect heavily.

[Mithalwen]

Oh so now we are more or less at the point where everyone suspects everyone else ..... don't forget there are just 3 wolves and a cobbler (unless it was the cobbler who was "turned") in this village. Guess we should be grateful there are no multiple lynches .... well time for me to go and since Shasta and I are neck and neck... an unfortunate turn of phrase I know...

++Shasta

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Everyone seems to think I'm trying to push my interpretation of Durelin's dreams onto the village when I'm not. I never said "this and this is who she dreamed of, and here's why"; I just made guesses. So did about three other people. So I don't understand why this fact is the basis of everyone suspecting me!

Really, you try to help people...

Not going to vote just yet, but my vote will probably be a self-preservation vote for Mith.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It was very nasty of him to be so suspicious.

That's true, but it's always sad to see WW threads quieten down when loud innocents are gone.

[Eönwë]

So, the scores are:

Mith-2
Shasta-1

...I think

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also:

Originally Posted by Rikae

I've noticed Shasta is one of the first to post most days – maybe because of his time zone...?

My timezone is Central. That means Brinn's deadlines are 6:00 pm for me; it's very easy for me to be during that time unless my mom needs the computer for something (I can't wait to be back in college!).

Edit: X'd with Eonwe. I know both Eomer and Mith voted for me.

[Aganzir]

*whistles casually*

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Who be those?

[Nogrod]

I thought of doing something productive but then never managed it. Well, there's two hours still to go.

Just to mention this though.

I agree with Aganzir that if Shasta is a wolf he's the one turned into a wolf after Nerwen had to go. That would mean that we have our two original wolves somewhere else. I think Mith is one of them, I'm indeed pretty positive about it and confirmed because of her way of posting toDay.

So it would leave us one more original wolf - and possibly the turned wolf if Shasta isn't the one. The Eomer - Shasta row and them being alive still would strongly suggest Shasta is the one but Agan is right in pressing we shouldn't take that for granted.

I see Boro's point on the Ka and still feel puzzled about Kitanna (I need to be right even once in a game!).

[Eönwë]

And how come Eomer is not voting Mithalwen?

He kept on saying how suspicious he was of her on the first two days, but then on the next two he votes Nilp and today he votes Shasta, specifically avoiding voting Mith. Is he our innocent-turned-wolf?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Even if Durelin did in fact not dream of Kitanna (which I'll concede since everybody seems to be against that), I still think it's very possible she dreamt of Nogrod. Or has someone refuted that as well?

Edit: X'd with Eonwe.

[Eönwë]

My last post makes me even more suspicious of a certain person, so without further ado, I will vote:

++Mithalwen

I don't know how much time I can be on for (with my messed up internet), so I will vote now. Not that that means I won't post if I can.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And how come Eomer is not voting Mithalwen?

He kept on saying how suspicious he was of her on the first two days, but then on the next two he votes Nilp and today he votes Shasta, specifically avoiding voting Mith. Is he our innocent-turned-wolf?

I find it impossible that a gifted would have been turned. And I find it very unlikely that Eomer is not a gifted.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Even if Durelin did in fact not dream of Kitanna (which I'll concede since everybody seems to be against that), I still think it's very possible she dreamt of Nogrod. Or has someone refuted that as well?

In my opinion it's possible, too. Besides I have had an inexplicable bad feeling about him.

I think lynching Mith would give us the most insight today.

edit: xed with Eönwë

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And how come Eomer is not voting Mithalwen?

He kept on saying how suspicious he was of her on the first two days, but then on the next two he votes Nilp and today he votes Shasta, specifically avoiding voting Mith. Is he our innocent-turned-wolf?

A good point. And if that is the case there might be a real danger for us for if he was indeed the hunter before and was then turned a wolf there would be no real hunter to come forwards and reveal his treachery.

I don't know how Brinn made the choice of the new wolf or would she allow the village to lose a gifted for the wolves to get one for their pack though... So maybe that's not the case... *crosses fingers*

EDIT: X'd with Shasta, Eönwë & Agan

[Eönwë]

Oops! My latest theory goes down the drain. Eomer actually votes EW on Day 2. SOrry for getting your hopes up people.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I still think it's very possible she dreamt of Nogrod. Or has someone refuted that as well?

I think it highly unlikely as I happen to be innocent and she never quite said so. But naturally you can't "refute" a speculation like that unless you're the person her/himself - and why would anyone believe you even if you knew something was true?

[Aganzir]

Eönwë darling, please see my #407.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Eönwë darling, please see my #407.

Ok, ok I get the hint. Here is a list (If I get killed in the night for this, Agan, I'm coming after you in the next game):

Prime suspects:
Mithalwen
Shasta
Nogrod

and then there's Eomer

edit: ooh, and maybe Kitanna, but sometimes she seemes really suspicious, and sometimes not at all.

I'm just not sure any more

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, ok I get the hint. Here is a list (If I get killed in the night for this, Agan, I'm coming after you in the next game):

Prime suspects:
Mithalwen
Shasta
Nogrod

and then there's Eomer

The two people most talked about today and the person I just posted about....

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

The two people most talked about today and the person I just posted about....

Well, obviously. You expected something new and contemporary? This is WW, by now, nothing is fresh.

And by the way, I didn't even read your last post so .

edit: spelt obviously wrong.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

The two people most talked about today and the person I just posted about....

Seems like guaranteed Eönwë-style...

I have thought it too eyebrow-raising to be wolf-behaviour but I don't know.

[satansaloser2005]

Quick pop-in before I go to post properly.

No, I don't think Brinn would turn a gifted into a wolf; it just wouldn't be fair. Unless she turned the cobbler, and I can almost guarantee that that wouldn't happen; it'd just be silly. I'm guessing she picked randomly from the remaining ordos. I could be wrong, but I'm probably not.



Anyway, I see a Mith wagon (well, maybe the start of one anyway), and since I actually got to read everything toDay (well, you know what I mean by everything) I'm okay with it. It's just that yesterDay I hadn't looked at Mith and couldn't vote her in good conscience without looking at everything first (that and it seemed at the time that it was a mighty sudden bandwagon....erm, whoops) so I voted for Nilp since he was....well, so Nilp.



All right, off into the land of posts. Be back soon as I can dearies.

[Eönwë]

What I mean is, most of what has been said is what will be said later on, just pieced together differently. It is only in the first few days that people get a chance to say something new (especially on Day 1, and day 1's are never relevant). People just base their suspicions upon older ones and tailor them to suit themselves.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have thought it too eyebrow-raising to be wolf-behaviour but I don't know.

Anyway, wouldn't that be too obvious for a wolf? Even me.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

(If I get killed in the night for this, Agan, I'm coming after you in the next game

I fail to see why you should be killed for it.

It's funny that yesterday Mith looked much more suspicious than Nogrod and today it's vice versa.

I wonder if Kitanna could be the cobbler. That would explain her being both suspicious and innocent in several people's opinion, and going after Nerwen.

edit: xed with Eönwë. Sometimes the most obvious things are the best wolf covers, so I don't consider that an argument for you.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I have thought it too eyebrow-raising to be wolf-behaviour but I don't know.

AnywayX2- aren't wolves always killed in bandwaggons (except really late in the game).

[Eönwë]

Hmm... Just over an hour left- Anything could happen...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

That's true, but it's always sad to see WW threads quieten down when loud innocents are gone.

Especially when you're a wolf. Loud innocents attract attention to themselves and away from you, after all...

To clarify, "wolf-colored glasses" mean glasses that make what I'm looking at look wolvish, not glasses that I wear because I am a wolf. Kind of like "rose-colored glasses" mean everything else looks rose-colored, not that I am rose-colored. Double .

I don't like the way people have narrowed the field to Shasta and Mith, and I, for one, am unlikely to vote for either of them. So there.

[Nogrod]

I decided to check the action from yuesterDay before the DL.

The votes at 10 minutes before the deadline were:
Nilp 3
Eomer 2

Originally Posted by Eomer

Ach, no.
2 votes.
Well...
I'm the Hunter.

Originally Posted by Dury

*sigh* Yes, yes, we figured by now you were someone important, the way you were acting...

Originally Posted by Form

*irritated*
You're not dead yet, you know... Nilp's still the front-runner.
Of course, if you don't die, we won't know for sure if you are hunter or not... and the wolves might not kill you tonight.

Originally Posted by Eomer

With 2 votes and plenty of talk about me, and with minutes to spare, I'm not taking any chances. I'm not killing an innocent.

Originally Posted by Sally, after the DL

Eomer, I'm glad you're not dead but you weren't in the lead when you revealed. Was it really necessary?

As you see I have bolded two interesting comments there. Form's foresight, readiness to challenge the believability of Eomer's revelation and his open annoyance do raise my eyebrows but they might talk for his innocence as well.

But what on Arda does Eomer mean by saying that he's "not killing an innocent"? Should that be counted as a slip of the angle he's looking the game from? Gah, I don't know. All the reasons would state that he's true (the possibility of the real hunter to pull his bluff, Brinn not changing a gifted to a wolf... ) but I just don't like that sentence. It's not something innocents say.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I don't know how Brinn made the choice of the new wolf or would she allow the village to lose a gifted for the wolves to get one for their pack though... So maybe that's not the case... *crosses fingers*

Let me clarify some things regarding the newly turned wolf, so there is not too much confusion.

I did not de-gift anyone. The newly bitten wolf was previously an ordo. It wouldn't have been fair to turn any gifteds, even the cobbler (as I know from personal experience).

Also, if bringing in a new wolf affected Durelin's previous dreams at all, she would have been informed.

Lastly, the new wolf was turned sometime during the extended Night 3. So he/she would've taken part in any wolf planning once informed of the new role.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Especially when you're a wolf. Loud innocents attract attention to themselves and away from you, after all...

But that's not the right sort of frown.

Originally Posted by Rikae

To clarify, "wolf-colored glasses" mean glasses that make what I'm looking at look wolvish, not glasses that I wear because I am a wolf. Kind of like "rose-colored glasses" mean everything else looks rose-colored, not that I am rose-colored.

I know that. I was just making a point.

[Boromir88]

Eonwe:

Votes:
Day 1- Mithalwen
Day 2- Elf-Warrior
Day 3- Nilp
Day 4- Mithalwen

I said that Eonwe's Day 1 vote didn't look suspicious, but I might do a complete flip-flop here on Eonwe who is baffling me right now. (I'll get to that in a bit). Day 2 vote was out of self preservation, that doesn't say anything. Whether wolf or not, most people would want to stay in the village (occassionally we get a couple suicidals).

He kept on saying how suspicious he was of her on the first two days, but then on the next two he votes Nilp and today he votes Shasta, specifically avoiding voting Mith. Is he our innocent-turned-wolf.~Eonwe

Seeing as no person has come to refute Eomer's hunter claim I see no reason to believe he isn't the hunter. And the suggestion that Brin would make such a lopsided, unbalanced move to take away one of the gifteds and make him a wolf is ridiculous. (I hope you don't take any offense to this Brin, but if any moderator made such an unbalanced change to completely screw a village, I would never be in that person's village again).

And regarding Eonwe's about Nilp:

I miss him already.

An apologetic wolf is not unheard of.

Formendacil:

Votes:
Day 1- Nogrod
Day 2- Elf-warrior
Day 3- Eomer

I still feel neutral about his Day 1 vote, that isn't an odd play when it comes to Form. I don't agree with Rikae at all - would you care to say why you have a hunch about Formendacil? What is it that he says. Because even if he voted for Eomer yesterday, I feel a genuine innocence. He notes my points on Nogrod and on Eomer, and like I said about Kitanna, just seems to come to a well reasoned conclusion.

A wolf Form is perfectly capable of doing that, but right now he is someone who's judgement I trust. Since I'm not all that suspicious of Kitanna, I don't think his defense for Kitanna (because of Durelin's posts) is all that suspicious. But there I go being hypocritical again, because that is a reason Shasta is one of my top suspects.

Edit: crossed with everything since Eonwe's post 419

[Nogrod]

Thanks Brinn!

And that will seal my case with Eomer unless someone comes to contest his role saying s/he's the real hunter.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Seeing as no person has come to refute Eomer's hunter claim I see no reason to believe he isn't the hunter. And the suggestion that Brin would make such a lopsided, unbalanced move to take away one of the gifteds and make him a wolf is ridiculous.

I wasn't saying that he wasn't a hunter for sure, I was just looking at things from a different angle. Anyway, you'll see that I soon rejected the theory in any case.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would say Form fits the type of player Durelin would dream about early on. Also, I would imagine each day she would leave us some hint as to who she voted for. She only had 3 posts on Day 1...her first post was completely RPG IC, there are no people mentioned, and so if there is a clue it's a cryptic one. That is something I will not be able to uncover. Her last post she votes for Kit on the grounds of stirring up trouble against Nerwen, and Durelin felt Nerwen was an easy Day 1 wolf lynch. On Night 1 at least she didn't dream of Kit or Nerwen.

Thus is it her 2nd post on the Day where she gives us the hint? She lumps several people together, makes a neutral statement about Nogrod, but with Form there's just something about him she likes.

Haven't read past Page 10, but I'll respond to the only thing (at least regarding me) that I've had a thought on, namely the above quote by Boromir.

As much as I would love Durelin to have dreamt of me, while not disprovable, I do not think this to have been the case, on the basis of her suspicion list yesterday. If she had dreamt and found me guilty, I'd have been at the top of the list--not the bottom. If she had dreamt and found me innocent, I'd not have been on it at all.

Oh, also a thought to Mith regarding my not-fully-shaken-off ICness...

Given that I am a Tolkien Canonist when NOT playing this game, I hardly think I could be accused harshly if I seem to retain the persona. Not that there is any conscious attempt to do so, mind, but it is sort of my modus operandi.

More after I read Page 11.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But what on Arda does Eomer mean by saying that he's "not killing an innocent"? Should that be counted as a slip of the angle he's looking the game from? Gah, I don't know. All the reasons would state that he's true (the possibility of the real hunter to pull his bluff, Brinn not changing a gifted to a wolf... ) but I just don't like that sentence. It's not something innocents say.

What's the problem, Nogrod? I speak of the rules of the game regarding the Hunter. If I am lynched I kill whoever I choose to hunt, wolf or innocent. If I am attacked by wolves in the night, I can kill only a wolf. With this rule, I absolutely refuse to be lynched (hence my reveal when there was a danger of this).

You seem to be doing a lot to cause confusion.

[Rikae]

I was just wondering: how did we end up with the field narrowed to Shasta and Mith?


Nogrod, in post #356, says he still thinks Mith may be a wolf for avoiding talking about Nerwen, and Durelin may have been dropping hints about Shasta being a wolf.


In the very next post, Kitanna says: “But what about Shasta and Mith as her voting candidates for yesterday's vote? Could she have voted for one of them and found one of them a wolf? If that's the case she might have dreamt of Mith. Or those were two she wanted to dream of and never got the chance. If that's the case maybe it put the hackers on edge that someone was on to them.”


#359, Nogrod says he's wishing to lynch Mith.


#360, Form says not to ignore Mith because of her near brush with death.


#361, Kitanna inclined to think Durelin dreamed of a Mith-wolf, or had plans to dream of her or a Shasta-wolf, making them nervous.


#362 – Eomer's theory that the wolves would have killed him if Shasta was not a wolf. (Unfortunately, most wolves would suspect a possible trap by a hunter, so I don't think we can glean much from this)


#366 Kitanna votes for Mith and thinks Shasta is a wolf, too.


#367 Agan thinks Shasta looks innocent, Mith looks suspicious.


#368 Boro thinks Kitanna may be corredt and Mith or Shasta a wolf.


#371 Eomer accuses Mith of trying to buy Shasta another day.


#374 Boro agrees with Eomer, thinks one of the two is the spammer & the other a hacker.


#375 Eomer: “Shasta and Mith both seem like excellent lynching targets toDay.” Votes for Shasta.


#377 Boro says “Boro's got lots of time on his off day and would like to keep this an active day, and not resign ourselves to "Well Shasta or Mith will get it today, here's my vote, bye."


Nice enough, but Boro has played a big role in narrowing it to Shasta and Mith, and he's rather reinforcing the idea by pronouncing it so like this, too.


At any rate, I can't shake the feeling that something is fishy here, and going over the day's events has me feeling uneasy about Kitanna – or possibly Nogrod, who might have been on the chopping block if these two hadn't been the front runners. Also, let's not discount the possibility Eomer is actually the spammer! The real hunter may be lying low because being lynched, even while taking spammer-Eomer along, wouldn't help the village nearly as much as being wolf-killed.


Just a few thoughts.

[Nogrod]

I just went backwards and saw Kitanna's nice analysis on Dury and the way she concluded to Mith's lupinity. So even if wolf-voting-wolfs are not unheard of () I'd say that if and when Mith turns out a wolf I'd be much more at ease with Kitanna. I mean it was clear there were a host of suspicions on Mith already yesterDay and thence Kit's vote might be important in the end.

But then again it would be quite "Mithish" to say to her fellows that: "vote me and get yourselves a good reputation as I seem to be a goner already..."

I remember people saying how their brains were hurting at different earlier stages of the game. I'd say mine is hurting only now...

[Formendacil]

Okay, I've read up to what was current as of my last post, but cross-posting and might have left me a little behind regardless. With half an hour (oh, and more... darned BD time being off... though it gives me a much appreciated 10 minutes, it keeps confusing me) until the deadline, plenty of time to catch that.

Thoughts are nebulous at the moment... Rikae, despite apparently having more time today, still has not said why I was suddenly so clearly evil yesterday, and has not really either confirmed that theory today or dropped it as mistaken. This irritates me, largely because I'm in the one in question, but also because it might speak of a wolf that realises I'm too innocent... or something.

Her complaint, however, that the day is devolving into a Mith/Shasta bandwaggon perks up my ears. Both cases, from my point of view, would seem to suggest that they could be wolves--and if so, then perhaps Rikae is concerned for her two accomplices.

The fact that we haven't killed the Cobbler is also starting to bug me... not because I don't think us capable of thoroughly confusing ourselves, but because I'm starting to think that I see everybody as confusing rather than suspicious, and thus it would seem to indicate that the Cobbler is providing good cover for the wolves right now.

[Boromir88]

I wasn't saying that he wasn't a hunter for sure, I was just looking at things from a different angle. Anyway, you'll see that I soon rejected the theory in any case.~Eonwe

It's been noted, and just so everyone understands my last three posts have been to keep a discussion fueled for today, and consider some things for down the road. I still have the complete intention of voting for either Shasta or Mith today. (So, yes Mith I'm still pretty keen on seeing you dead.) I just don't know if you're a wolf, or a spammer trying to protect who you think is a wolf.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I speak of the rules of the game regarding the Hunter. If I am lynched I kill whoever I choose to hunt, wolf or innocent. If I am attacked by wolves in the night, I can kill only a wolf.

Sorry. My bad. I had no idea about that kind of new version of the hunter... Maybe I should have followed the discussions a bit more closely...

But anyway. Brinn's explanation has already convinced me that I will consider voting for you only if someone comes to claim the role of hunter as well.