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#1 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 248
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Hello Findegil. Now I come to this thread and after so long I am going to answer about what I think and what I always worry about. I think the solution is correct based on what you had explained in detail above. It is a wording similar to the one I developed after the discussion. But in the meantime the famous text "lost" for the public in an auction "Concernig .... The Hoard" enclosed by him in a 1964 letter to Eileen Elgar (together with Kinship of the Half-elven) came to mind. According to Cristina Scull the story closely follows Q30 with some differences: for instance, before beginning work on the treasure, the dwarves agree to accept a payment of a tenth of the unwrought metals. Thingol, however, is still killed outside Menegroth, with Tolkien giving two possible reasons why the dwarves were able to pass the Girdle of Melian.
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Conce...27The_Hoard%27 Have you thought about this? Greetings |
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#2 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
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Hi gondowe,
I did not know of Concerning ... 'The Hoard'. Therefore many thanks for point this text out to me. The small info we have about its content does change a lot. At least it renders my last idea, about Hurin carrying the Nauglamir while his band perishes and so left the Horad of Nargothrond behind use less. The 'two possible reasons why the dwarves were able to pass the Girdle of Melian' might or moght not be related to the note in which Thingol himself goes beyond and is killed outside. Too sad we don't have that text in full. I have reread some of our editings and consider farther the implications of what we know about Concerning ... 'The Hoard'. Respectfully Findegil |
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#3 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 248
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Yes. It's a pity the private text. Alas!!! Could its owner be less selfish? We only ask for a copy !!!!
In any case I think it is the most prudent thing to do as long as this text does not come to light to remain with the prudent option of having Húrin take only the Nauglamir to Thingol while his outlaws are killed in quarrels over the rest of the Hoard. And make 'no story tells how Thingol got out of the Girdle of Melian', in my humble opinion. Greetings |
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#4 | |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,721
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Posted by gondowe:
Quote:
Concerning ... 'The Hoard' has block the way out of that dilema that I imagined. I could invent a clever solution in which Hurin only comes alone and with the Nauglamir after his man have died in quarrels. Seenig that the necklace could only come from the Hoard, adventures from Doriath could go in search for the Hoard, find it and carry it to Menegroth. But inventing is not the way we work here. We could imaging, that Hurin when he first came tto the boarder, did not go to Thingol but recived help from the boarder-wardens. But that still is inventing a fact in Middle-Earth without a source from Tolkien. Thereare in my view two question we have to answer: A. I think we are left with the choice to let Hurin get help from Thingol and if that destroyes the gesture, so what? It was Tolkiens solution not ours. Or we can stay with the solution we found in the first instance: that the Outlaws came to Menegroth but left in peace with part of the Hoard. B. In both cases we could still let Hurin chose a pre existing Nauglamir as a special part, that he carried hinself and used effectfully in Menegroth. And I think this is actually the second question we have to answer: When and for whom was the Nauglamir wrought? For A I tend more and more to following Q30 since Concerning ... 'The Hoard' seems to support that version. For B I think that Text X that we agreed exists does lead us to the Nauglamir beeing made originally for Felagund. Respectfully Findegil |
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#5 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 248
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What you're saying's correct. You cannot invent anything. And we must be frustated with this lack of an important text. But what I mean is that as long as we don't have the text of Concerning .... The Hoard we should focus on what we do have. And the last thing would be the very authoritative idea (even knowing that CT did not know the text of C .. TH when he composed Sil77) published by CT in Sil77 based on Note X. And C. Scull's observation that in general lines follow the Q30 can be in very general lines.
I would like to have the opinion of more people about it. In any case I'll rethink again to preserve the Nauglamir made first for Finrod and the bringing of the full Hoard to Menegroth. Greetings |
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#6 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 369
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But...ladies and gentlemen, we DO have "Concerning... 'The Hoard'"!
That is, as of last month from an auction - it was sold for c. 150,000$ from what I've heard. The auction website has actually posted images of the manuscripts, and a brave soul has already attempted to tackle the mess that is Tolkien's handwriting! I will link both the auction website and the transcript here, and oh boy does it not disappoint! The manuscript images: https://historical.ha.com/itm/books/...Popular-112917 The transcript: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...ISmd8laFM/edit
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#7 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,971
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Quote:
hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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