Father-names among the Noldor - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galin · 08-07-2020, 02:39 PM

I smiled when I found that out (Gamling, Ioreth). Point of view, I guess. Also I like Tolkien's Noldorin/Eldarin naming customs, and don't find that it makes Noldorin fathers "terrible" at naming . . . although I'm not sure Huinesoron wrote that without a smile.

An idea I often run into online is that Elves don't repeat names! It's far more complicated than that, and in general . . . they do! It's interesting too, that while Feanor's last two sons called each other Ambarussa, others called them Minyarussa and Atyarussa.

This is (in my opinion) good stuff folks!

Galin · 08-10-2020, 10:56 AM

We could have a scenario similar to this: "( . . . ) it was then still the custom for the father-name of a son to be a modification of the father's name (as Finwe/Curufinwe) or a patronymic (as Finwion "son of Finwe")." So Curufinwe wants his son's names to have Finwe in it.

Nelyafinwe -- straightforward enough "Third Finwe" . . . but note too, that every Father-name has a short form to go with it:

Nelyo,
Cáno,
Turco,
Curvo
and so on . . .

. . . and did Cáno (Maglor) have a "strong voice" as a baby? Or did Turco have a powerful grip? It's noted that Moryo was black-haired as his grandfather. In other words, even without the help of foresight, to me, these names seem quite possible as being based on observable things from birth.

Not that all names need be, of course. I can imagine some fathers liking a name "strong in body" for a son, whether the son turns out to be notably strong in body, or not.

Or a daughter!

William Cloud Hicklin · 08-10-2020, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galin

Not that all names need be, of course. I can imagine some fathers liking a name "strong in body" for a son, whether the son turns out to be notably strong in body, or not.

One then wonders who named Beleg, and when. Aspiration? Big, strong newborn? Mother-name? Or just an epesse?

Huinesoron · 08-10-2020, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galin

I smiled when I found that out (Gamling, Ioreth). Point of view, I guess. Also I like Tolkien's Noldorin/Eldarin naming customs, and don't find that it makes Noldorin fathers "terrible" at naming . . . although I'm not sure Huinesoron wrote that without a smile.

I'm always smiling.

The quote someone found about names containing the father's name rather kills my idea, which is that the evidence suggests they literally all named their kids the same thing over and over. Of course, it's always possible House Feanor rewrote the histories at some point... yeah, I'm going with that.

(It was Elrond and Elros. They were so embarassed by Adoptive Dads' story that they made sure none of the Numenorean or Rivendell...ian records admitted to it. And where were our source texts translated from...?)

hS

Huinesoron · 07-06-2022, 08:55 AM

Just to really drive this one home, NoME gives two possible birth-names for Gil-Galad: "Finellach" and "Finwain". And did I mention Finduilas, daughter of Champ, son of Champ, son of Finwe, son of Finwe? I don't think I did.

In fairness to House Finwe, I should note that NoME also gives Ingwe's father as Ilion, his wife as Ilwen, and his children as Indis and Ingwil. So it's not just the Noldor at fault.

hS

08-10-2020, 10:56 AM	#2
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	We could have a scenario similar to this: "( . . . ) it was then still the custom for the father-name of a son to be a modification of the father's name (as Finwe/Curufinwe) or a patronymic (as Finwion "son of Finwe")." So Curufinwe wants his son's names to have Finwe in it. Nelyafinwe -- straightforward enough "Third Finwe" . . . but note too, that every Father-name has a short form to go with it: Nelyo, Cáno, Turco, Curvo and so on . . . . . . and did Cáno (Maglor) have a "strong voice" as a baby? Or did Turco have a powerful grip? It's noted that Moryo was black-haired as his grandfather. In other words, even without the help of foresight, to me, these names seem quite possible as being based on observable things from birth. Not that all names need be, of course. I can imagine some fathers liking a name "strong in body" for a son, whether the son turns out to be notably strong in body, or not. Or a daughter! Last edited by Galin; 08-10-2020 at 03:15 PM.

07-06-2022, 08:55 AM	#5
Huinesoron Overshadowed Eagle Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea Posts: 3,973	Just to really drive this one home, NoME gives two possible birth-names for Gil-Galad: "Finellach" and "Finwain". And did I mention Finduilas, daughter of Champ, son of Champ, son of Finwe, son of Finwe? I don't think I did. In fairness to House Finwe, I should note that NoME also gives Ingwe's father as Ilion, his wife as Ilwen, and his children as Indis and Ingwil. So it's not just the Noldor at fault. hS __________________ Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera

08-07-2020, 02:39 PM	#1
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	I smiled when I found that out (Gamling, Ioreth). Point of view, I guess. Also I like Tolkien's Noldorin/Eldarin naming customs, and don't find that it makes Noldorin fathers "terrible" at naming . . . although I'm not sure Huinesoron wrote that without a smile. An idea I often run into online is that Elves don't repeat names! It's far more complicated than that, and in general . . . they do! It's interesting too, that while Feanor's last two sons called each other Ambarussa, others called them Minyarussa and Atyarussa. This is (in my opinion) good stuff folks!