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Old 09-09-2015, 07:06 AM   #1
William Cloud Hicklin
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Problem there is that the LTs' primitive "caves of the Rodothlim" evolved in the Turin poem into the great fortress of Nargothrond, a new conception with a new name; Rodothlim or variants thereof disappeared. I would use Nargothrim.

(the element (g)rod (from *groto "cave, tunnel") survived into late Sindarin, as in Nogrod and Menegroth, but I doubt generic "cave-dwellers" would have been applied to Finrod's folk).
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:54 AM   #2
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Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.Morthoron is a guest of Galadriel in Lothlórien.
I think Halbarad got a bad break. One of those characters you'd wish to know more about.
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Old 09-09-2015, 09:26 AM   #3
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I think Halbarad got a bad break. One of those characters you'd wish to know more about.
Certainly. Halbarad was to me one of the most valiant and obscure characters in the LOTR. Strange that he was never mentioned in The Song of the Mounds of Mundburg".

Additionally, the savior of the world receives little to no mention - Borondir - The Rider of Last Hope - without him Sauron would have surely prevailed.


Tal-Elmar is an interesting character too, as well as Borlas and Saelon in "The New Shadow"

Bladorthin I don't have to even mentioned.
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Old 09-09-2015, 10:59 AM   #4
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William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.William Cloud Hicklin is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Most likely Tolkien simply replaced the early collective-plural ending -thlim with -rim, -drim (*rimbe, 'host, folk'). The latter of course is very familiar: Rohirrim, Onodrim, Haradrim etc etc.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:21 AM   #5
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Most likely Tolkien simply replaced the early collective-plural ending -thlim with -rim, -drim (*rimbe, 'host, folk'). The latter of course is very familiar: Rohirrim, Onodrim, Haradrim etc etc.
Yes, indeed, -(d)rim was a relatively late change in the context of a group of people.

I'm not sure when did he introduce that change, but in any case the Lays are from the twenties (later than BoLT). It might be that at that time he introduce the change, though I have to look on the texts to be sure.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:47 AM   #6
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Another thing crossed my mind.

Who are the Ythlings from Aelfwine of England in The Book of Lost Tales: Part II

They have always puzzled me!

Where are they: the Azores, Madeira, Jan Mayen, Iceland, Bermuda, somewhere inside the confines of the Guarded Realm???

More importantly: WHO THE HELL are they? Men, Elves, Dwarves, Ainur, something else...Hobbits? I can't wrap my mind to it.
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:22 AM   #7
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Another thing: may hap Ogbar, Saithnar, Nargil, Rodrim and Gaurin are the names of PLACES instead of characters?
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:58 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin View Post
Problem there is that the LTs' primitive "caves of the Rodothlim" evolved in the Turin poem into the great fortress of Nargothrond, a new conception with a new name; Rodothlim or variants thereof disappeared. I would use Nargothrim.

(the element (g)rod (from *groto "cave, tunnel") survived into late Sindarin, as in Nogrod and Menegroth, but I doubt generic "cave-dwellers" would have been applied to Finrod's folk).
I think you misunderstood my point. I was replying to the previous post which said that the name "Rodrim" applies to the inhabitants of Nargothrond (in the earlier stages of writing). I simply corrected the mistake.

But while we're at it - the names "Rodothlim" and "Rodrim" bear a remarkable similarity - one would even think that the name "Rodrim" replaced that of "Rodothlim" at that stage of the writing (or maybe Tolkien was playing with the idea, although I've found no mention of any of the names in the "whetting spell" of Beleg, as CT remarks also).

Again - I noticed the similarity between "gondothLIM" and "rodothLIM" AND "gondolindRIM" and "rodRIM" - last parts of the names indicate belonging to a certain place, city, region, etc.

There is one more thing:

Quote:
and the glaive of Gaurin whose gleaming stroke
did rive the rocks of Rodrim's hall;
This passages strikes me in one peculiar way: Rodrim's halls. Admittedly Rodrim COULD simply be a character, BUT...It could also refer to a people as a hole.




P.S. Well, I don't want to sound as a narcissistic buffoon, but who ever knows about Ogbar, Celeg Aithorn, Torhir Ifant, etc. I think one could safely (relatively) assume that he's head is buried under a pile of Tolkien related books.
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