Hard Winters Planning/Discussion Thread

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Also, since I am talking about it, temperatures below 0°C are also sufficient (for the benefit of Finns who might start suggesting -20 is too warm. Between 0°C to -10°C is totally enough! It's just needed that the snow doesn't melt!).

It just has to be enough to be colder than usual - anyone wants to take an estimate? But if it's only like -10C, I doubt there would be serious amputation-meriting frostbite cases. Mild ones are possible, and cases of being cold all the time (and therefore all the consequences of that, including a low immune response ) would be very common due to lack of appropriate clothing (shapka-ushankas weren't yet invented, I presume ). But perhaps there was a period of extreme cold that only lasted less than a week, not the whole winter. So if anyone is still considering frostbite, this is a possible explanation. If we're going to go for it, I might have Ledwyn blacken a minor body part to make her further unstable.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

It just has to be enough to be colder than usual - anyone wants to take an estimate? But if it's only like -10C, I doubt there would be serious amputation-meriting frostbite cases. Mild ones are possible, and cases of being cold all the time (and therefore all the consequences of that, including a low immune response ) would be very common due to lack of appropriate clothing (shapka-ushankas weren't yet invented, I presume ). But perhaps there was a period of extreme cold that only lasted less than a week, not the whole winter. So if anyone is still considering frostbite, this is a possible explanation. If we're going to go for it, I might have Ledwyn blacken a minor body part to make her further unstable.

Totally not a problem, I am sure. I was talking about temperatures during the day, temperatures during the night could drop much further. Also, it is totally okay if you have a single night, or even day, when the temperatures are really low (even if it's been -8°C the whole winter, one day you can have suddenly a 20-degrees drop just because the weather is messy), you go out to the forest without proper clothing, or a badger steals your gloves, then you return late and get lost, come home late at night, and whoops, and you have a good start for having some body part amputated eventually

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Totally not a problem, I am sure. I was talking about temperatures during the day, temperatures during the night could drop much further. Also, it is totally okay if you have a single night, or even day, when the temperatures are really low (even if it's been -8°C the whole winter, one day you can have suddenly a 20-degrees drop just because the weather is messy), you go out to the forest without proper clothing, or a badger steals your gloves, then you return late and get lost, come home late at night, and whoops, and you have a good start for having some body part amputated eventually

I can think of at least 3 Jack London stories dedicated to precisely that. Except his freezing stories often involve falling/stepping into a hidden creek that does not freeze even in the coldest temperatures, which isn't likely in the SMH whereabouts.

Also, forgot to mention - the fifth year that appears to be missing is the pretty uneventful year at the very start when the building of the Hall is finished. So if we want to stick to the 5 year jump timeline, it could be tacked on briefly. If not, I'll edit my Ledwyn post to reflect that, since I believe it mentions that year.

[Firefoot]

I think someone said Rohan was sort of similar to France, so here are the temperature profiles of a Lyon and Dijon (I literally know nothing about Europe but they look pretty inland and close-ish to mountains to seems comparable to Rohan geographically):

Lyon

Dijon

So actually, I think the temperature profile proposed by Nogrod isn't too bad, maybe just gets a little too cold too fast and lingers a bit too long. But in the middle of winter, I would definitely say -20 C as a low isn't unreasonable.

Two winters ago, Chicago had one of the worst winters in its recorded weather history, where we alternated weeks basically where it would be about 25 F/-4 C and snow heavily, then drop to a high of about 5 F/ -15 C. The alternating dumping snow and bitter cold temperatures was brutal (and this is a city used to having snow on the ground all the time from late Dec - mid March). Geographically, we're not similar to Rohan, but we're pretty similar to France in latitude.

Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be that cold for frostbite to occur - you just have to be exposed for longer if it's less cold. (I had one patient who just liked walking barefoot in the snow... guess what, he lost one of his feet. )

(Aren't you guys proud of me? I even converted temperature scales for you )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I can think of at least 3 Jack London stories dedicated to precisely that. Except his freezing stories often involve falling/stepping into a hidden creek that does not freeze even in the coldest temperatures, which isn't likely in the SMH whereabouts.

I was just thinking the same

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I think someone said Rohan was sort of similar to France, so here are the temperature profiles of a Lyon and Dijon (I literally know nothing about Europe but they look pretty inland and close-ish to mountains to seems comparable to Rohan geographically):

Lyon

Dijon

So actually, I think the temperature profile proposed by Nogrod isn't too bad, maybe just gets a little too cold too fast and lingers a bit too long. But in the middle of winter, I would definitely say -20 C as a low isn't unreasonable.

Two winters ago, Chicago had one of the worst winters in its recorded weather history, where we alternated weeks basically where it would be about 25 F/-4 C and snow heavily, then drop to a high of about 5 F/ -15 C. The alternating dumping snow and bitter cold temperatures was brutal (and this is a city used to having snow on the ground all the time from late Dec - mid March). Geographically, we're not similar to Rohan, but we're pretty similar to France in latitude.

Also, it doesn't necessarily have to be that cold for frostbite to occur - you just have to be exposed for longer if it's less cold. (I had one patient who just liked walking barefoot in the snow... guess what, he lost one of his feet.)

(Aren't you guys proud of me? I even converted temperature scales for you )

We definitely are And yes, I was also thinking more or less some places in France are reasonable: exactly, the proximity to mountains, also to the sea (at least relatively, Rohan is a bit more inland in general, but then again France is big enough to account for the inland climate). Also comparing to other similar places that's what I would expect to have similar climate, more or less.

[Mithalwen]

And a country not geared up for regular substantial snows will be hit worse than people having the same weather in a place used to it. I spent my year abroad for my degree in St Etienne in the Massif Central of France. It was allegedly the first place to get snow in the winter and was certainly very cold between Christmas and Easter - I can't remember snow at Christmas and I think I would have done since a White Christmas is something I have always hoped to experience but just doesn't usually fit with UK weather... even when we had a very bad winter a few years ago it didn't quite happen.. However there was a lot of snow 3 months later in March when my family came to visit though not everywhere.. the town in its valley was clear and Lyon was quite hot the day we went there, as was Le Puy where it was actually very warm - I was never so fit before or since and had turned into a "Mountain goat" and remember basking in the sun waiting for my father and sister to complete the climb up to the chapel.. but the day we went higher up into the national park there was a lot of deep snow.. so much so that we turned back.

Anyway do the old hands have any preference for Elfthain being new or a Scarburg "intern" of a few years standing? I may have to alter his age but he may be just 17 istead of nearly 18 I will have to check his birthday with his mum