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#1 | |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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In the case of Turin we have the perfect blend of speed, power, reach and agility. He is stronger, more agile, faster and has the reach advantage, but is still an inferior warrior to his father. Tolkien did tend to overuse oldest, but not tallest as much. Thingol was regarded as the tallest and after him Turgon, but later he added that Turgon's brother Arakano was taller. Legolas is a standard Sindar from a noble family. We know he was shorter than Boromir and Aragorn, but was still tall so we can guess his height may have been around 6ft to 6ft 2. This adds weight to the writings that have the average height for the Noldor at 6,4 and the Sindar slightly shorter. Last edited by cellurdur; 01-24-2013 at 03:28 PM. |
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#2 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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But there's another late description in Of Dwarves And Men where the Eldar appear to be generally taller. 'They were called 'Halflings'; but this refers to the normal height of Men of Numenorean descent and of the Eldar (especially those of Noldorin descent), which appears to have been about seven of our feet.' I have no real evidence as to which text came after the other however, but as I say both are relatively late. |
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#3 | |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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I am not sure where the description is of Eldarin men being 6 foot 6 comes from. I have seen the quote about the Noldor being around 7ft, but the notes says to look into the further writings in the Unfinished Tales. The Unfinished Tales has them at about 6,4. The average Noldor is not one from the royal houses and nothing like the tallest. I have given the example of Legolas previously who is actually from a noble Sindarin House. He is still shorter than Boromir, who is around 6,4 or so. I don't think an average height of 6,4 is too short. The royal family of Numenor are directly descended from the two tallest of the Edain and 2/3 of the tallest Eldar. They were bound to be exceptionally tall. It seems both notes are from around 1968. This is all Christopher Tolkien has to say on the Eldar's height being 7ft. See the discussion of lineal measurements and their equation with our measurements in the Legend of the Disaster of the Gladden Fields.[ This discussion (which, with the work itself belongs, belongs to the very late period-1968 or later) is found in the Unfinished Tales pp285. ff where a note on the stature of the Hobbits if also given. Looking at Lord of the Rings and the information we have I don't see why you think 6ft 4 is a bit short for the average Noldor. Aragorn was the tallest of the company, but Boromir, little less in height was broader and heavier in build. Last edited by cellurdur; 01-24-2013 at 05:25 PM. |
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#4 | ||||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Unfinished Tales describes Galadriel at 6 foot 4, but not the average Noldo that I'm aware of. Quote:
My first quote is about Eldarin Men -- that's a general description, especially given that it notes Eldarin Kings and leaders were taller. The second quote refers to the normal height of the Eldar, especially the Noldor, at seven feet. Quote:
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#5 | |||||
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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However, we do know Celeborn was tall for a Teleri elf. His name seems to have meant 'silver-tall'. Since he is 6'4 can assume the majority of the Sindar/Teleri were around 6ft. This fits in as I said with Legolas being shorter than Boromir. Quote:
If Celeborn a tall and royal Sindar was around 6'4 then how could the average height for the Eldar be 7ft? The same applies for Legolas, who was of high Sindarin origin, but is shorter than Boromir. Quote:
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#6 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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This source was not much described in Unfinished Tales for example, because until relatively recently Pauline Baynes was still alive, and Tolkien's comments were inspired by his seeming dislike of part of her illustration. Quote:
I don't think we have to drop all the way down to 6 feet. Another late note (published in Unfinished Tales), states that the 'Teleri were in general somewhat less in build and stature than the Noldor.' Quote:
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And JRRT published that Aragorn was the tallest of the Fellowship, as already noted (and something later about the Sea-kings of old as well). The description of Boromir might arguably imply that he was taller than all others in the Company excepting Aragorn, but I'm not sure this is necessarily certain... ... if I recall correctly the context is about ploughing through snow, which is why Boromir's broader build is noted too, but Legolas is not concerned here in any case, as he can run on top of the snow. Tolkien noted that Legolas was as tall as a young tree ![]() Last edited by Galin; 01-25-2013 at 10:00 AM. |
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#7 | |||||
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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Somewhat less in build is ambiguous, considering a little less in height for Boromir is aroudn 2 inches. What we can be certain of is even a very tall Telerian Prince is only about the same height as the tallest of the Noldor women. This does indicate quite more than a couple of inches difference. Quote:
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I would say no. As you said he could easily change Galadriel's height, but it seems the more detailed account. Quote:
It's true that the particular passage strongly indicates, even very strongly indicates that Boromir was the second tallest, but it does not confirm this fact for certain. Though one thing it does confirm is Aragorn and Boromir were stronger. Legolas appears to agree with him on this matter too, either that or he is being very lazy. All this does confirm is that even after their waining the Numenoreans were stronger than the Sindar, but the Sindar as a whole are weaker than the Noldor. However, the House of Hador are stronger than the Noldor Princes. EDIT Off topic, but it is interesting that Christopher Tolkien speculates that Galadriel and Celeborn may have been present when Feanor's sons sacked Doriath and actually played a part in helping Elwing escape. If this is the case then I wonder what Galadriel's feelings on Feanor was then. |
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#8 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
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Wasn't Galadriel meant to be the tallest of three elven women? And celeborn is described as tall but they are neutrally to be the same height. Eomer is described by Legolas as very tall. Gets a bit meaningless.
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But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.
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#9 | |
Shade of Carn Dūm
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 276
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If Galadriel was man high for the Noldor at 6'4, then this would explain why she was the tallest of the Noldor women. Their average height probably being around 5'10 to 6'0. The Teleri as indicated by Legolas were probably slightly shorter than the average height of the Noldor. Maybe the average height for the Teleri was around 6'0 and thus Celeborn at 6'4 would be tall for a Teleri and the same height as Galadriel. When the Exiles dwindled the Rangers were probably around the same height as the average Noldor. In Numenor they had been slightly taller maybe around 6'6 or so. |
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#10 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
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![]() I don't like the thought of Elves being 'seven foot tall' - makes me think of aliens...
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#11 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
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Yes there is that factor such as when Merry is tripped over by Elfhelm in the fog en route to minaa tirith and Elfhelm is described as tall and Merry eishes he was a tall rider of Rohan. Not clear at all if Elfhelm is tall for a Rohir or just seems tall because Merry is a Hobbit and the Rohirrimnare taller generally than the men of Bree that hobbits might be more familiar with.
There was some horrible eugenics experiment to breed tall warriors IIRC..Failed mo doubt because tall people lumber around due to the lack of oxygen at that altituee.... ![]()
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But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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