Game thread - Werewolf C - The Father Christmas Murders

[Inziladun]

Well done, Ranger!

In answer to Coppermirror, my top suspect nearing DL yesterDay was you, for what looked like opportunistic voting in you following Lommy. I didn't recall you thinking me particularly suspicious before that time, and it looked dodgy.

Originally Posted by McCaber

When Boro got that second vote, he was the one put on the chopping block. No one else really suspected Inzil, so I'm not sure there wasn't some ulterior motive. Reasonable enough explanation, but I'm still wondering why he went with Boro over sally.

Sally simply hadn't been around much, and I didn't want to vote for her on that basis.

[Galadriel55]

Ha! That should show these two villains that they aren't the boss here! That should show them that the situation could be reversed! And it will be reversed! We'll make them scared instead of beig afraid of them! Way to go, Ranger!

[/weird random obligatory IC]*

But way to go Ranger for real!

Also, as a bit of thought from yesterDay, people should try and make an effort to post a bit more. Shasta, I know you know better than not to post like that again toDay. Steve and Nerwen too. You guys posted, but it was much too little for a proper evaluation. That's not to speak of sallycakes. Agreed that Shasta posted quite a lot. But very little different things, if I may say so. So, more please!

I'm going to look back at the thread and try to figure out what's where regarding the Night kill. I'll read everything over carefully and I suggest everyone does too. It would be hilarious if the wolves tried to kill their own cobbler!

Also going to do some figuring about the Boro-lynch.


*As a side note, I do not know anythng about Rudolph other than that he was a red nosed reindeer who had a very shiny nose that glows... Therefore it's hard for me to do strictly Rudolph IC banter when I'm in the mood.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that was certainly something pleasant to wake up to this morning. Excellent job, ranger!

I have loads of things to do today, but I'll be around from time to time and will be able to vote. Of course I have to catch up first....

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I'm going to look back at the thread and try to figure out what's where regarding the Night kill. I'll read everything over carefully and I suggest everyone does too. It would be hilarious if the wolves tried to kill their own cobbler!

It's pretty difficult to make anything of a Night-kill that didn't happen. Isn't that just blind speculation?

[satansaloser2005]

In his #32, Morsul says Boro is "seeming pretty tame." Interesting choice of words....

In the same post, Morsul also says it's terrifying that Gal thinks like him (and that maybe she should get her head checked). I don't know if it's just the way Morsul runs his sentences together or what, but to say that she was like him, and that it was scary, but not furry scary....I'm not sure what to think of it. Probably just typical Morsul. Thoughts from others, perhaps?

In Lommie's #48, she says Dun feels intentionally lazy. I don't think I agree with this sentiment, in fact, though we'll get to that later. Agan wants him alive, and thus Dun is clearly a wolf.

Legate comments on Boro's lack of initiative in his #50 and #53, but we now know my ice cold prince meant us no harm. Given that Legate later voted for Boro, I am rather suspicious of this. His accusations just don't seem right to me.

Coppermirror's #55 mentions Dun's "this could be damaging" statements, which make Cop rather uneasy. This sentiment, unlike Lommie's, is one I am inclined to agree with. It looks shifty to me, not unlike a wolf looking to make himself look better by being unwilling to discuss that which might harm the village, all the while thinking about it from the safety of his igloo.

Nerwen's questioning of Legate's questioning in #60 brings up another good point: It's good to ask questions, but the one he asked about the cobbler seems strange to me. Asking if the cobbler were cursed would be a different matter entirely, but asking what he did doesn't sit right with me.

An even better point in the same post is Cop pointing out the possibility of a gifted Nerwen, though that seemed rather out of the question even before Boro was revealed to be innocent; Nerwen has always struck me as more smooth than that. Covering all the bases seems fair, but I generally don't like the idea of "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" being said out loud. I'm not ready to lynch Cop based just on this, but I don't like it either.

Boro's "next person in line should or shouldn't be killed because" or whatever plan wasn't the most sound idea I've heard, but Legate's reaction to it seems just as false as Legate claims Boro's plan is in the former's #61.

Gal's #72 gives a good shorthand of my difficulty with reading most of this game. So many IC things and Christmas silliness that I legitimately can't tell who's joking and who's actually talking about things.

In #85, Steve doesn't find Legate to be innocent, but he doesn't want to lynch him because he's generating discussion. That is a course of action that will kill us if Legate is a wolf. Take, for instance, Nog. Yes, Nog brings discussion and good points to the table. He is a balanced, talkative, sensible player. But if he's evil, he's evil, and we kill him. He doesn't get a pass just because he's keeping the thread active, and neither should Legate. This approach concerns me.

I appreciate Shasta standing up for me in his #95. *nuzzles* That's my lad.



Thus endeth Day 1. My commentary on toDay will be, well, less, unfortunately, but it'll be along, or at the very least a list.

[Morsul the Dark]

ThinLommy hey hey hey

Post 14: Lists first impressins clear just thoughts on each player on their own traits.

38-Decides to do another list
43- discusses Copp

Post 48- Votes Zil for seeming sort of lazy, admits not the strongest mostly gut



SO it feels like Lommy is trying to make genuine prgress but running into blocks.

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm currently thinking maybe a MCab Zil pacK

Zil's suspicions of Copper have grwn legs and spread but certain things she's saying make me doubt her furryness.

Mccab's vote for Sally seems rough, Sally just didn't make it here to post often yesterday I think we all gt caught up.

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

[Eönwë]

So it looks like I was busier than I thought. But seriously, how has so little been said since I left? I'm going to go and reread and finally write that post now.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Zil - his vote makes it hard to judge him either way, as both an innocent and a wolf could vote to save themselves. But I would echo Cop's request to hear who your susspects were (and are).

I addressed that here.

As for current suspicions, you would be one. Did you give up on "figuring out" the Night-kill?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

This Day will last two Days, right?

I think so: DL is usual time on 12/25.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

Seconded.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Eönwë]

Ok, I've just lost the post I was writing, so I may as well give what I assume Morsul means while trying to start again:

Originally Posted by Morsul, edited by Eonwe

Nerwen, Sally and I didn't vote- this is fairly normal for Nerwen but not so much for me and Sally. I usually throw a half reasoned vote out there and Sally tries to be more meticulous. So a vote based on her participation looks odd to me - safe - since sally won't be lynched but he's not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I addressed that here.

Ah, sorry. Must have missed that. My apologies.

Originally Posted by Inzil

Did you give up on "figuring out" the Night-kill?

No, actually.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)?

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

The only issue with that is that sally came darn close to being lynched for non-participation. If there was a safe sally-vote, it would have been for the reason that it doesn't tell anything about the role or the relationship of that person. Both wolves and innocents could vote for quiet people.

[Coppermirror]

Happy Christmas, everyone! I've been having a great day. I'm going to respond to a couple of things people were saying to/about me and then I'm going to settle down and look at the voting record from yesterDay, go over the people I missed covering in my earlier post toDay, think about toDay so far, and try to catch us a wolf. I'm not sure how far I'll get with that before I go to sleep, but I'll make sure to do that when I wake up if not.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

In answer to Coppermirror, my top suspect nearing DL yesterDay was you, for what looked like opportunistic voting in you following Lommy. I didn't recall you thinking me particularly suspicious before that time, and it looked dodgy.

Oh, I get it then. So, it's not just the fact I voted for you but that I didn't plainly mention a suspicion of you before she cast her vote for you. That's fair enough considering how little there was to by for anyone yesterDay. Although since Lommy was the first voter and few people at that point had put down any serious suspicion of anyone, that reasoning would have risked anyone making a second vote for you looking dodgy.

I don't know if you're still suspicious of me on those grounds, but in case you are, there's something which might be able to set your mind at rest. Note that when I first stated that I suspected you, my reasoning was this:

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Inzil the Snowman. I feel uneasy about Inzil's comments, but I can't put my finger on why, and don't want to make a mistake. He suggested that analysing things too much at this point could be damaging, which is true, especially for the Boro-Nerwen-Lommy thing he was talking about. But we have to analyse based on what we have in front of us, or not at all, so there's no choice. Maybe it was his suggestion that it would harm the Christmas spirit that's bothering me.

That follows on in reasoning from a post I made before Lommy cast her vote, where my comment about you was

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Zil - Frosty: Thinks that speculation based on nothing will only harm us and those of us who are in the Christmas spirit. I am very much a Christmas Spirit, so I sympathise with his views. But even so, we must analyse things. It's the weighing up of value that we must use our Christmas cheer for.

^ It should be possible for you to see my thought process there.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

An even better point in the same post is Cop pointing out the possibility of a gifted Nerwen, though that seemed rather out of the question even before Boro was revealed to be innocent; Nerwen has always struck me as more smooth than that. Covering all the bases seems fair, but I generally don't like the idea of "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" being said out loud. I'm not ready to lynch Cop based just on this, but I don't like it either.

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!"). I would find that sort of rephrasing suspicious of itself, but a few more people seemed to think the point was fair. Looks as if I've misjudged the level of paranoia for that element of the game.

And now I've finished writing this, there isn't time for the more productive stuff I'd hoped to cover. I'll have to do that in the morning.

Hope everyone's been having a great time!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!").

Have a sugar-plum, my dear, and let me explain something. You may not think we of Fairyland know very much about footwear manufacture– but please remember the Shoemaker and the Elves.

Well. If one is the cobbler, and one believes one may have located a gifted, it is necessary merely to communicate this interesting fact to the wolves. Adding that the person in question "probably isn't" the Seer, with no reasoning at all behind it, won't change anything– the wolves will still see your post, and will draw their own conclusions.

I'm not saying that's what you actually did– this is not an accusation– but if you want to know why people didn't like your post, that's why.