WW LXXXIX: The Terror of Tol Fuin

[Nogrod]

I x'posted with this...

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Galadriel is actually scarily supportive of me. No, I don't think I'll be voting her toDay, as I still suspect Kit, but it's a bit....no, a lot....suspicious that Galadriel is backing me so strongly. Obviously we're not packmates, but if she's a wolf, it would a good (?) idea for her to try to establish a connection with me. I don't know. I appreciate it, but I'm also wary of her buddying up to me so quickly.

Say what you say Sally, but that actually fits what I was saying in my earlier post. If there was a connection between you two and you felt you both were gathering suspicion partly because of it, then you should try to do away with the connection.


Heh...

Originally Posted by Sally

And you've clearly not yet seen the post in which I agree with him about how creepy it is. Do pay attention to what I'm actually saying before you cry wolf, okay, dear?

I had not seen that post of yours (quoted here in my post earlier) at that time, but as you see, I was actually responding to that even before you asked me. And I was making a quite different interpretation of it than the one you offer.

Oh my Sally, have you got lost from the path of the pure-hearted ones? I was not "crying wolf", but I have a feeling you just did it yourself... I was talking about there being parties, not that one of them is guilty.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Heh... I had not seen that post of yours (quoted here in my post earlier) at that time, but as you see, I was actually responding to that even before you asked me.

Heh, heh, heh. I figured you hadn't seen it yet, and couldn't resist the opportunity to give you a (very) hard time. *blows a kiss*

Shasta! Darling! You're back!


x'd with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, this is rather horrible. Sally had actually managed to make me suspect her in the last several posts she had made, good job from you, sally.

First this post about Eomer - also given the general context, it seems a bit too random, also with the whole summary, as if what a Wolf could do if being suddenly under fire "ugh... I think I'd better avoid talking about myself and talk about something else... let's analyse someone".

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

He seems fine to me, balanced and logical as well as picking up on the humor where people intend for it to be found. While I don't agree with him on Kit, I'm thinking that he's not a wolf, or if so, not a wolf with her. I can't possibly disagree with him on Galadriel because, well, what he says is so true. My hesitation is brought about by her newness and the likelihood that her "guilt" is just newbie mistakes, which is why I am hesitant to follow his vote.

There is rather a lot of flip-flopping and not really saying much in the end. "The person seems fine to me" or "I don't know, maybe it is nothing" is rather Wolf-y stuff, as in, "I am not the one who lynched you" (or alternatively, "I won't lynch my packmates, but I won't speak too loud for their defence either, lest I be judged myself").

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Legate: I'm actually the opposite. As a wolf, being backed up would make me feel more comfortable, take some of the pressure off. As an innocent, however, I feel as if people support me only to make me the object of their manipulation.

Maybe I'm just paranoid.

Of course, that is only what you claim - we have no way to verify it. But I understand.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Heh, heh, heh. I figured you hadn't seen it yet, and couldn't resist the opportunity to give you a (very) hard time. *blows a kiss*

Okay, this is probably the worst. So what, you figured he hadn't seen it and still posted what you did? Makes no sense to me. Didn't sound like it. Sounded like a genuine defence. And now you are relativising the defence - because you were suspected even despite it? I don't really get it.

All in all, if this stuff was meant to save you from suspicion, it managed to do actually the very opposite, thank you very much.

EDIT: x-ed since after the sally post I quote.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

There is rather a lot of flip-flopping and not really saying much in the end. "The person seems fine to me" or "I don't know, maybe it is nothing" is rather Wolf-y stuff, as in, "I am not the one who lynched you" (or alternatively, "I won't lynch my packmates, but I won't speak too loud for their defence either, lest I be judged myself").

Quite the opposite. I may not agree with everything he says, but I don't think he's guilty, and I said almost exactly that.

You're twisting my words so hard I think a few vertebrae have popped.


EDIT: Leaving in a few ticks. This'll probably be the last post from me for a little while.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Quite the opposite. I may not agree with everything he says, but I don't think he's guilty, and I said almost exactly that.

You're twisting my words so hard I think a few vertebrae have popped.

Nope, I don't see anything like that. I was speaking generally, and the stuff about "not lynched you" was referring more to what you said about voting G55 at that point than about Eomer. With Eomer, it was more like this "this person seems fine"-thing.

Now, going to decide whom I want to vote...

EDIT: again x-ed since my last.

[Mithalwen]

I have votes for Sally (Kit) Bom (Greenie) and Galadriel (Eomer) ? Sally had seemed most suspicious so far I am not sure if the marked change is a sign of wronged innocence getting a grip or a desperate wolf. But I am obliged to look at Lottie (on my read the rules rule ) And now time really is pressing.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Thinking about Sally while I was gone - based on reading her feel and not content, Sally reads more innocent than baddie to me. As a wolf I've seen her get steadily and steadily more... not "hysterical", but more "flail-y" in a sense that she'll be more and more sarcastic and dismissive of points against her as time goes on. I've seen a little of that from her today, but she strikes me as calmer than a wolf-Sally under pressure would be.

Based on content... I think I need to see more actual thought from Sally-dear, rather than fishing expeditions, before I decide. I don't think I'll be voting for her today.

I could vote for Kitanna, as she's really the one I tend to feel the worst about, but she seems to have no support as a lynch toDay and would thus be a throwaway. I don't want to vote Bom as the action that's got people so riled up about him has been his only action all Day - and on participation grounds wouldn't mind lynching him, but I think I'd rather see if he shapes up tomorrow.

I do need to vote soon (within the next fifteen minutes), however, and so I think I'm going to go look at Lottie.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Generally dividing people to groups by the level of suspicion - i.e. how much suspicious they seem to me:

Red zone:
Sally
Loslote

Orange zone:
Bom Tom
Kitanna

Yellow zone:
G55
Eomer
Lommy

Green zone:
Nogrod
Shasta
Mith

Grey zone - not enough data:
Nerwen
Greenie
Nilp

I shall be picking my votes probably from the red zone. However, I am sending a sharp rebuke to the people in the grey zone. I really would like to see them posting something substantial, otherwise, I might just as well have them in my target field just for the sake of being avoidant.

[Galadriel55]

Bom Tombadillo - spread suspicion and then disappeared. I wish he would post a bit more, and at least react somehow.
Nogrod - I need to reread his posts, as I'm having a hard time understanding some of his arguments. So far so good for the vibes.
Shasta - makes some good points (even though I don't agree with everything he says)
Kitanna - suspects Bom for suspecting Saly, but suspects Sally herself. First is inclined to vote for Bom, but changes her mind and votes Sally. Interesting (I'm not sure if it's in a good or a bad way...)
Sally - looks innocentish, but you've probably heard enough of that from me.
Eomer - no impression. Popped in to make a couple comments and to vote me.
Nerwen - as has been said before, guarded and careful. Too quiet. No impression.
Loslote - didn't say too many things either. No impression. A bit weird that she has nothing to say.
Greenie - doesn't think of Bom as very suspicious, yet vote for him. Also interesting.
Lommy - also not too many posts. Didn't comment a lot.
Nilp - where are you?
Legate - suspects Sally because I called her an innocent. Otherwise, looks good.
Mith avoided all the me-bom-kit-sally tangle. Didn't take sides. Didn't commit herself to anything. Made some fair points, but stayed aside.

So that's some opinionophobia from me.

Bom, Eomer, and Nerwen posted too little for me to get a descent impression. Nilp didn't post anything of [worthwhile] content. That is too many players fo less than an hour before DL!!!

Edit: xed since my last

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Lottie-lysis
Her first four posts were banter, so I didn't bother with them.

#87 - Does not want to lynch Sally "at all", Bom, mentions a tiny suspicion of Gala ("her posts hit me over the head a little like a baby fish"), didn't realize Kit was playing.

#99 - Mentions her hunch on Gala again, and complains it's been quiet. Eomer votes for Gala at the same time (4:41), but there's no mention of cross-posting.

#106 - Explains her suspicion of Gala. I think it's rather funny she says this -

Originally Posted by Lottie

I don't know, I might be wrong on this one, but that's what it looks like to me.

- when combined with what Legate says here -

Originally Posted by Legate

"The person seems fine to me" or "I don't know, maybe it is nothing" is rather Wolf-y stuff, as in, "I am not the one who lynched you" (or alternatively, "I won't lynch my packmates, but I won't speak too loud for their defence either, lest I be judged myself").

.

#131 - Although Lottie has said several times that she "gives Gala a newbie-pass" and "will feel bad if she's lynched her first Day 1 ever", here she continues to build her suspicion of Gala.


Conclusion - Lottie has set herself up today so that really the only person she can vote is Gala (she hasn't evidenced suspicion on anyone else); which, when combined with all that about "oh I'll feel so bad if she's lynched" and giving her a newbie-pass, really makes me raise both eyebrows. Lottie looks extremely contradictory.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I do hope the lack of any Legate or Nog posts in the last few minutes means they're reading my novel and preparing comments.

I'll be back in fifteen minutes or so. Deadline is in an hour and a half, correct?

I'm already done with you, at least for the time being, thanks But what I've been writing you can see above.

In any case, speaking of Shasta, I think he looks rather good for the time being. Whereas sally (to add to what I said in my last post also what has happened meanwhile) sounds really bad also in all her other posts - random short entries with what could be a wannabe-happy mask of a Wolf who is actually in the middle of a crossfire right now. Sort of a hysterical reaction, if you wish. Really, I don't like this behavior. It came so out of nowhere.

[Thinlómien]

Uggh I still have no opinions and it's getting late. Somehow none of the arguments really convince me.

So who I won't vote toDay:
Kitanna - too useful this far.
Nogrod - us agreeing made me think him innocent, and now that we don't agree so much anymore (his case on Sally etc) I still think he looks fairly good.
Sally - well I still think she is one of the players who tends to avoid declaring her innocence when evil.
Shasta - gives me innocent vibes.
Legate - hats off for clearing his head and using his time much better than me, and his way of argumenting seems pretty innocent this far.

I'm the most suspicious about Eomer and Lottie atm, but it's mostly just gut-feeling. Maybe reread or more thinking would be in order.


edit: xed with Sally and Legate

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Okay, this is probably the worst. So what, you figured he hadn't seen it and still posted what you did? Makes no sense to me. Didn't sound like it. Sounded like a genuine defence. And now you are relativising the defence - because you were suspected even despite it? I don't really get it.

As I thought... and why I started asking if she really had turned to the dark side.

I might have expressed myself not in the clearest terms in the end of my last post, so let me rephrase it here.

Sally says I shouldn't cry wolf before I see her counterargument.

First of all that counterargument is worthless as it can go both ways (and is not backed by any evidence) and it is actually something one would presume a wolf might do in that tight a situation - being suspected on D1 and all that jazz (it can't be "backed with evidence" this other way either, to be sure).

But the second point I find more damning. I said this turned out a good Day1 as we got sides (fractions, alliances... whatever). That would be good later as there would be something to mull over when the first wolf gets lynched or if enough innocents fitting a pattern are Nightkilled/lynched. But her take on that was that I was crying her a wolf... I do feel like reading a confession here.


Okay. I have to do a few other things as well and it's getting late (2AM shortly). I'll be back to vote and will most probably vote for Sally unless something new emerges.

PS. I see G55 has posted. After a quick skim I think I may need to think the potential relationship between her and Sally again - and what it means to my high suspicion on Sally at the moment. And I thought I would be done away with all the stuff early enough to vote like now and go to sleep... Well back, in half an hour or something.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But the second point I find more damning. I said this turned out a good Day1 as we got sides (fractions, alliances... whatever). That would be good later as there would be something to mull over when the first wolf gets lynched or if enough innocents fitting a pattern are Nightkilled/lynched. But her take on that was that I was crying her a wolf... I do feel like reading a confession here.

Well, to be fair, I think what you said looked as if you were implying she is a Wolf - it seemed like that also to me when I read it. But you are probably right in what you say about reacting to it: a Wolf would probably react to reading what she thought is an accusation differently than an innocent would (even if it actually wasn't an accusation, the point is the reaction and the thought process of the person).