WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[satansaloser2005]

A silent Sally is never up to anything good? More like never up to anyrthing?

No one is seriously believing Agan, are they? I'd mentioned before the game even started that I have no proper webs, yet she's attacking me for being quiet. Quite ridiculous.


I've got some free time so I'll do my best to make a "proper" post while I have time. It may a bit though, so thanks in advance for being patient.

Edit: x'd since Agan-ish

[Rikae]

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

It is true that Inzil and Lottie have a tendency to always look guilty to me.

Agan clearly would have realized her behavior would look cobblerish and must be doing it deliberately, which tells us nothing. She could do that with absolutely any role.

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

[Valier]

sorry for my quietness....I've got a little grumpy maia to deal with I should be around till DL and I am so glad there is only 2 pages to catch up on. I'm going to go back and have a read...I promised myself after not playing ww for awhile I will do everything I can to help this village rid itself of these baddies...so lets go have a look.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

....

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

So you feel he looks innocent because of the wagon, and I look bad for agreeing with you? And I feel telling the village that some of their discussion has been a waste of time, is kind of putting myself out there.

I need to leave in about 2 hours so I have to start figuring out who I want to vote for. I'll be lingering around for that time, and I'll skim back through some stuff, and try to come up with someone logical.

x'ed with Pitch

[Rikae]

Wow - a couple of jumpy people there.

[Rikae]

++Wilwa

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Pitch

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)

I agree, I don't know what Legate is getting at. Agan always refers to unknown people as a 'she', it's her way of protesting against our male-dominated society (at least, that's what I like to think she's doing). So no wolf looking at that would ever think it a Cobbler hint, it's just something she always does no matter what. And I don't see how what Lottie says could be a Cobbler hint. I'd like some clarification here on what he meant.

I do agree with this:

Originally Posted by Legate

This was just a very well possibly Wolfy post. I mean, the sort of quiet raising of suspicion, putting in a few names and then saying you don't actually suspect them, but if any people follow your opinion, then you join the bandwaggon and point at that 'I have been saying that I suspect them all along'.

She does sort of seem to be agreeing about any major suspicions brought forward, enough that she could vote for them and point out that she had considered it earlier....but then showing she's not positive, so if they wind up innocent she can say she never fully suspected them.

x'ed since my last post

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

This one:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

The passive-aggressive phrasing makes me inclined towards option 1.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

We have Pitch, who pinged my personal radar from the moment he said "havens forfend we do something like the Shasta lynch again!", but that's a Lottie reason so I'm going to need more to go on. And besides that, he's suspected by an awful lot of people so far, considering. From personal experience as a wolf I know that wolves don't need to do much to push a Day 1 bandwagon right into an innocent, but it's something to look at.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Pitch seems shady, for reasons others have mentioned. If it was just "Hey, wait, why me?", then I wouldn't be so worried, but it's been "Hey, wait, why me? Also, here's a lot of words to make me seem like I'm contributing."

Now most of those just seem a bit unsure about him, but it's enough that at some point, when people have no one else to vote for, they'll default back on him. So it's more a Pitch-wagon in the making. I've seen enough disastrous Day 1 waggons to know what the initial signs are. The interesting thing is that there aren't actually that many people who strongly suspect him, but everyone is under the idea that lots of people do, and they therefore consider him an option.

[Valier]

ok well going through the posts so far....made it through 8 players. Hmmm so far I think Pitch is looking ok to me, I'm not sure why he has warrented all the attention, So I won't be voting him. Also Nessa seems fairly innocent (well not pinging on my radar yet) Wilwa looks ok.... Lets seeeeee Shasta looks a little fishy to me as well as Rikae, I dont think I like her very odd vote, since she out and out suspected Pitch then voted otherwise.
I must say Lommy and Greenie seem a little uncharacteristicly quiet to me.... Akkkk so many people to go through yet...I'll be back

[Valier]

double post... I agree with you Wilwa on your last paragraph concerning Pitch. Bandwagoning on D1 is always a shame, though to alot of people may seem the easiest route to take, when they are unsure of who to vote for.
But it is always a good place for a wolf to hide. Also I believe a good place for a wolf to hide D1 is to adamently oppose a bandwagon that may be a fellow wolf or to protect another wolf who has jumped on the wagon...I hope that made sense...I'm thinking while I'm typing..

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I'd love to hear more from Sally. Way it is, i might as well vote for her, she's keeping low profile, not helping at all... Than that question of informations Rikae supposedly had.

Agree it's most unlike Sally to be so quiet, but didn't she give advance warning that she wouldn't get to post a lot? I think I remember something like that from the Admin thread.
The question about Rikae's knowledge was raised by Nessa, however (#55). And yes, that was at best careless, if by an innocent.

I had overlooked wilwa's post when writing my last, and even forgotten she was playing. It's remarkable how she makes a big show of opposing the 'Pitchwagon', but only a few posts later carefully joins and feeds the growing suspicion against Lottie raised by Legate earlier, while at the same time agreeing with my questioning of one of Legate's points against Lottie, so it doesn't look like she's just latching on to him wholesale, if you get my meaning.
I feel a bit puzzled by Lottie's quietness myself, but truth to be told, I think I've seen her at a loss for early suspicions before when innocent, and her reaction at #78 feels rather innocent-Lottie'ish to me.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Pitch

It's remarkable how she makes a big show of opposing the 'Pitchwagon', but only a few posts later carefully joins and feeds the growing suspicion against Lottie raised by Legate earlier, while at the same time agreeing with my questioning of one of Legate's points against Lottie, so it doesn't look like she's just latching on to him wholesale, if you get my meaning.

I asked for Legate to clarify, that doesn't mean I suspect him (I don't, I feel quite good about him). I also didn't say I suspect Lottie (though I'm not saying I trust her), just that the one post Legate pointed out is odd looking, I would need to look at her way more closely before I'd suspect her. And the difference between the Lottie wagon, and the one for you, is that you don't really look suspicious, you're acting like yourself, people are only considering you because they think everyone else suspects you (which really not many do). While Lottie actually seems to have some legitimate points against her.

I find it interesting that so far 2 people distrust me mainly for agreeing with them.

[wilwarin538]

Just got a call from the Boss, I don't have to work tonight so I can stay til DL. So since I now don't have to leave early, I'm going to take a break from the computer. I'll be back in about an hour.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Valier

I must say Lommy and Greenie seem a little uncharacteristicly quiet to me....

Yep, especially Lommy - what, first post and then nothing more for close to 30 hours or something, from a player renowned for her verbosity? What's the matter with her?
Greenie has posted a little more at least - mostly joining Mac in seeing cobbler hints in Agan's each and every post; which is entirely possible. I mean, Agan is daring enough to sort of hide in the open, and I remember an Agan-cobbler who talked about the cobbler all the time; but since our primary aim is not to lynch the cobbler but the wolves, I'm disinclined to vote her for the time being. It's when she starts other people of being the cobbler that I'll get worried about her.
I mean, really, early in the Day there sort of was a consensus that we've got to get a wolf ASAP in order to cut down the double Night-kills, but now some people have nothing better to do than looking for the cobbler? I'm looking at you, Mac.
Back to Greenie, her comment on the issue of Rikae vs me is very to-and-fro, with all that unless this, and unless that. Maybe genuine confusion, but I remember where giving her the benefit of doubt on this got me last time, so I'll be wary of her.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Is this because you're at work?

As a matter of fact, I was at home when I wrote that, but on call, which means no alcohol. That said, I think Guinness could potentially be very beneficial to my work productivity.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to eat something now, and have things to do for the next two hours, so further from me toDay is looking doubtful.

I'm unsure enough about Pitch that I'll let that particular wagon pass me by just now.

Nessa seems off; the "oddsmaking" post just looks like trying to seem helpful. That sort of thing would be understandable in the Endgame, but really, why do that on Day 1, except to say something for the sake of not being a submarine?

So....

++Nessa

Thin, I know, but I'm afraid that's all you'll get toDay.

Later, compadres.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I have to agree, when I was reading through I was really surprised, I mean I know there isn't much more to talk about on Day 1, but still. We've all played before, we know how everything works, it's not like there's some new dynamic we have to worry about (maybe the double kills, but that discussion ends at "let's get a wolfie asap", which is nothing new really). The Seer can reveal when they feel like it, most of us have working brains, so I'm sure they don't need our advice. And the Cobbler very well may leave hints, but we're not trying to get rid of the Cobbler right now, we're trying to get rid of wolves, so lets focus on that for the moment, shall we? Any speculation right now about the Cobbler could leave us on a false trail super easily, and talking about the Seer too much can draw attention to the Seer.

I don't understand how it is a waste to discuss roles and possibilities. First off it is Day 1 and we need some sort of plan, as the wolves get to plan ahead of time. We can scrap this plan at any moment and go for another one, but we need to do something. Some like to look at reactions by throwing out and starting suspicion, some watch day 1 and organize all their thoughts into a few analytical posts, some form an exhaustive and impossible plan, others talk about roles and mechanics.

None of these are "wasteful" things to post, they all provide usable in-game info. The only waste is simply not posting and providing no info, or meta-game reasons. While I think it's nice to be aware of when people have to leave, if and when they'll be back before DL...etc I call it "waste" in the sense that it speaks towards no one's guilty or innocence.

And frankly, no none of us are stupid. Yes we all know how to use brains (sometimes I question the sanity of Lommy's, but she put her brain to good hard work last game). However, I have to ask what do you think is a bigger insult to our intelligence? Saying "cobbler is probably going to hint towards the wolves, more than vice versa," and "The seer/ranger/hunter should do blahdablah"? Or honestly thinking if I say "To the seer, dream of Lottie tonight!" and Shasta's gonna post "Aye Aye master Boro, I'm on it!"

The gifteds will follow their own minds, regardless of what people guess they should or will try to do. The reason I try to do it is to try and organize my jumbled mess of thoughts when thinking about who to vote for and who not to. It's silly to post "I won't vote for Agan, cus I think she's the ranger." But if I can start guessing what the cobbler would do in this situation, the wolves, the gifteds...etc than I can start putting people in groups accordingly.

I'm not understanding how it's an evil Melkor sign of evilness to discuss roles, or how it's a waste at all.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

Day 1 wagons spring up from the most unexplainable beginnings. Voting's typically tight on Day 1 and sometimes it doesn't take more than 3 or 4 votes to get lynched. So acquiring 1 the person might feel jumpy or in danger, acquiring 2 and 3 you're names going to be sweating it to the the DL.

Pitch has one vote and there are low whispers of vague uneasiness about him. We've seen these situations before, and as I've joked with Pitch who never will be able to get rid of his "Mr. Agreeable" marking. Some reason or another, agreeableness = wolfiness. And while no one's come out to make strong statements of suspicion towards Pitch, there has been a consensus of general distrust. Beginning with Rikae's mention of uneasiness, and then Pitch's so called "jumpiness" from Agan and others. It has been no band-wagon of votes, but I'm getting the sense that Pitch is making people nervous and being "agreeable."

I mean if people can't think of stronger suspicions, who are they going to vote for when they have to...a random "no read" person, or someone who's made them a little nervous? It has all the marks of a band-wagon, just not the votes and I'm more scratching my head on the strong "refusal" of wilwa, not the spotting a bandwagon prematurely.

(I've probably crossed, so this is a pre-mature Edit: )

[skip spence]

Had a slow hour and browsed Day 1 again. Thought this was funny:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

...
"The seer/ranger/hunter should do blahdablah"? Or honestly thinking if I say "To the seer, dream of Lottie tonight!" and Shasta's gonna post "Aye Aye master Boro, I'm on it!"
...
It's silly to post "I won't vote for Agan, cus I think she's the ranger."
...

That's a weird coincidence!

Also, Shasta, now I saw that hint to Agan. Jeez, wouldn't we have hated to lose after letting that slip us by! Will keep me eyes on the two of you if we ever play again!

Pretty sweet hinting by Pitch there too, makes me wish we could've returned the favour.

EDIT: And Gal55, I will second Legate's invitation: do join us, you'd make a great ww-player I'm sure

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by skip spence

That's a weird coincidence!

Ahaha! When I first saw it I wondered if Boro was the seer, but fortunately didn't get too bold and hint at him. That kept me from suspecting him heavily in the beginning though (later I was convinced he was a baddie but tried to give the impression of wavering just so the wolves wouldn't pin me down as a gifted).

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, first of all, why am I the spirit of muffins?!?! I demand an explanation!!!!!!!! >.<


Anyway, to business now, eh? (And with the added good news that I’m typing this post on Abigail, and thus able to bold people’s names. Exciting, I know!)


I’m not immediately suspicious of Lommie’s first post, but I find it interesting that she feels the need to remind us that we need to kill a wolf. Yes, I know, she didn’t really have anything else to say, and she is one to put forth substance (which is good), but her comment about the two kills being “disgusting” seems wrong to me. Just something to file away for later really.


Legate said “prolongate”. This keeps him safe from my Day 1 wrath, as he’s clearly insane.


Surprisingly, I like the lioness’s suggestion that the seer could come out if they dream a wolf straight off. Nerwen, anything you’d like to share? No? Sadness. As much as I hate to say it, I consider the seer an acceptable sacrifice if it means we can rid ourselves of the double kills. However, this also could run us into trouble if we have multiple reveals or what have you, as a wolf could “reveal” and condemn an innocent; we would be down an innocent (and imagine if the wolves managed to fake-dream our real seer! ) and the wolves, while down a wolf upon the next Day, would still have a double kill that Night. Basically, let’s just make sure that we weigh any reveals carefully. I think the wolves wouldn’t just fake reveal for the fun of it, but if their circumstances are dire (i.e. their double kills are threatened) they might take drastic action to maintain their advantage as long as possible. Proceed with caution, etc.


I agree with Pitch as well. Let’s not kill the newbie just because we can. If she’s a wolf, however....


I like Cailin. Let’s not kill her. That would make me cranky.


Boro has a very good point. Rather than saying what we shouldn’t do, why not talk about what we should? Lommie did this, as well as Agan. Pitch is very quick to specifically say not to kill BG, and several have said to be proactive rather than just grumble about Day 1. But how are we to tell which are good or evil, which are just pontificating and which are actually trying to further discussion? It’s impossible at this point, at least for me. ToMorrow we can loot the bodies; toDay let’s do all we can to prevent the bodies from multiplying overNight.


And yes please, no Shasta-wagon on me. No, I’m not a gifted, but I still don’t wanna die, thanks. I’d like to know why Lottie knee-jerked against me however. What’d I do now?


Now I shall briefly share a past experience. In the Library Game of Epic Wolf (and Cobbler) Fail, our beloved helper sent us his name first. I believe the system was the same, though I would love for Boro, Shasta, or Nessa to clarify. (I think Mac may have done it to myself and Nerwen too; my memory is a bit shoddy today, alas.) The point is that the cobbler could easily suggest themself toNight and basically give the wolves their identity. Of course they run the risk of being killed *cough* Boro *cough* but if it works it could pay off big time. And yeah, I know, I’ve probably given the cobbler ideas, but I think a clever cobbler would think of it anyway. I think it could be a serious problem for us if the cobbler is able to identify themself to the wolves, so if we catch the cobbler, I’d be more than happy to kill them (or at the very least have them hunted). Of course wolves must be our first priority but if the wolves know their cobbler and one of them is in danger, they could easily sacrifice their cobbler in order to keep their double kills. I don’t want a cobbler-cide to happen. I want to kill wolves. Thus, let’s make sure that, if the cobbler is killed, the village is the one doing it, and not the wolves, so the baddies can’t use the cobbler’s death to their advantage.


Looking back again, I find it even more confusing why I find Skip suspicious. Strange. It was probably his vote-spreading suggestion, which while good for protecting from unfortunate bandwagons is also good for allowing wolves to influence the vote without tying each other together.


Cailin thinks Pitch is very “polite’ and has answers for everything. The problem is that she seems to consider it a positive quality, whereas I find his preparation and forethought suspicious.


Nessa is....weird. Which is normal for her, I think, but it’s still....weird. I don’t want to lynch her just for giving figures, but I see that too often as a “helpful” wolf tactic, so I’m shaky.

Originally Posted by [b

Oz[/b]]Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves!* Has anyone seen*Shasta?

I’m glad I forgot to rep you for the last game we played together. Now I can rep you for that. ^_^


Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable. Her predictions are very interesting.


Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves. I wanted to save my thoughts until I was commenting on Mac’s post, because this is a good catch for Mac (which is to say that he made a good catch, not that he’s normally incapable of such a discovery). He also makes some mention of Agan being suspicious for bladdity blah blah, which I’d love for him to explain if he’s able. I don’t disagree with him, but I don’t see it as an immediate ping either, so I’d love his opinion.


Haha. Kath points out Pitch’s inconsistency as well. Not inconsistent so much as a bit too perfect until you inspect it a bit closer, I suppose, but still. He seems to be trying to hard to point out things that look helpful, yet accuses others for doing the same. He seems too....I don’t even know, as my brain is sort of flopping in all different directions, but I certainly don’t like what he’s been saying (or at least how he’s been saying it). Pitch is far too smooth, and Kath’s notice of his commentary on Oz’s post highlights that. He seems to be the ultimately helpful villager, even poking at those who may be participating less and urging them to be more forceful and less obvious/lazy/blah blah. My brain is getting away from me, but basically he’s highly disconcerting and plastic.


Agan’s #40 had me feeling happy until I read “I like X but that doesn’t mean they’re innocent” twice within ten seconds. I’m very undecided on her, but I know it’s partly because she’s ragging on me for not having any internet. I think she’s a bit too casual with her suspicions, which makes me wonder why. It seems to be mostly this post though, which is even weirder than weirder. I need to step back and think more about her.


Re: Lottie’s #44. Thanks, dear. Thanks a lot. *whimpers, sniffles, feels unloved*


I love that Kit is going to defiantly post. What are you in defiance of? *winks*


BG’s #47 is so bloody bizarre. I can’t decide whether or not she’s serious about Oz. And she’s just not going to vote? If you suspect someone, you vote. (Like I said, her Oz suspicion almost has to be a joke, but....I just don’t know.) This is very confusing. :/


Dun makes sense and eats his pillow. The two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I like him.

Nope, I lied. He talks about Nessa’s odds talk and then mentions my name. I totally missed something. I don’t suppose I could get clarification?


Mac continues to make sense in his #53. The wolves likely won’t hint to the cobbler. The cobbler, however, will hint to the wolves. Thus my above cobblery thoughts.



And with that I’ve read up to my #60. Posting this and will share more after lunch.

[skip spence]

Have just browsed the thread.

Votes so far:
Cailin -> Agan
Kitanna -> Pitchwife
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> Wilwa
Inzil -> Nessa

Just a quick comment on this, will be back a bit later (1 h?) with more.

Originally Posted by Sally

Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves.

Think you are twisting my words, unintentionally or not. I clarified to Mac (as I remember) that I don't suggest that the Seer should suspect or clear ONLY those he or she is sure about. That would indeed be a great risk of exposure. I did say the Seer should be careful not to point a finger at one specific unknown. As I said, we had a bad recent experience when this happened. Didn't you also play that game?

Edit: X'ed from 98 and down

[Aganzir]

Mac & Boro didn't look wolfish, Mac made the most sense, Mac is objective. Nessa & skip are worrisome. That's basically what ed said about us. I wonder if her death was an attempt to frame an innocent skip or Nessa... at first glance it certainly points away from Mac - which might be the plan, or might not.

[Boromir88]

Still not buying into Manwe's wolvery. The ranger would still pose a problem, the wolves would know this, they wouldn't just give Manwe up so easily, and Manwe wouldn't bow out defeated. Not with the ranger still around.

Granted, Manwe hasn't looked so innocent today, even without Shasta's posts, but a wolf in Manwe's situation would attempt to get the Ranger out. Ok, maybe I shouldn't say this as a sure thing, but at least I would.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Boro

a wolf in Manwe's situation would attempt to get the Ranger out. Ok, maybe I shouldn't say this as a sure thing, but at least I would.

Shame you didn't think of that last Night, eh?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Shame you didn't think of that last Night, eh?

Although actually, I believe a Borowolf probably would have thought of it. I've seen his love of false-reveals in action before.
That means two of those I listed earlier have reasons against their wolvishness (Mac because of the Oz-kill). I recall a similar reason being given wrt... Greenie?... and Wilwa has done a couple innocentish-looking things. By process of elimination, then, our best bets may be Skip, Nessa & Cailin.
I'll have to weigh all of this (the idea of these as a pack, and the non-wolf evidence for the others) toMorrow, though. IF I'm still alive, that is.

Edit: X'd with Boro, amusingly enough.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Granted, Manwe hasn't looked so innocent today, even without Shasta's posts, but a wolf in Manwe's situation would attempt to get the Ranger out. Ok, maybe I shouldn't say this as a sure thing, but at least I would.

Oh, really? Not all wolves are like you though.

Just for the sake of it (I'm sorry I'm advising the gifteds all the time!), I don't think the ranger should come out as long as we have known innocents alive unless she's in danger of being lynched or makes a successful save that isn't any of the current known innocents.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oh, really? Not all wolves are like you though.

Yes but the option of fake revealing when there's still gifteds around is in the basic repetoire of any cornered wolf.

I just happen to fake reveal even when not backed into any corner.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Still not buying into Manwe's wolvery. The ranger would still pose a problem, the wolves would know this, they wouldn't just give Manwe up so easily, and Manwe wouldn't bow out defeated.

And what other choice would they have now? To try to save him and get easily discerned by their votes? "So the Day ended with one Wolf being lynched, only three people of the whole village voted for saving him." Most interesting, just who might the remaining three Wolves be?

No, I think if Mänwe is a Wolf, then once the "train had left the station" (the Day started), it was too late.

Btw - I don't quite like Agan's overeagerness in her suspicions of Mänwe and then immediately Boro, sort of reminding me of the bloodthirsty part of the French revolution (one head - okay, next!), but I still hope her innocent.

Like I said, I am most suspicious of Mac, then possibly Boro, and with questionmarks wilwa/Cailín/skip.

Hmm, seems I am totally forgetting about Nessa, now it occured to me... but I am really wondering about her being just a victim of one big frame... or...

EDIT: x-ed since my last