WW LXXVII: The Metamorphs of Wolf-562-e

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Shasta

But you specifically said that she "wasn't really that suspicious", so I'm not seeing why you decided to vote for her. And saying that since you voted a Morph instead of the Seer, you're innocent, doesn't work because neither BG nor Sally's roles were known at the time.

Well I had been planning to vote for BG, cause her vote did look suspicious, but then she explained, I understood and had no back up and like 20 minutes to choose someone. Sally also had a weird vote, and I wouldn't have voted for her if I had had anyone else to vote for, but I was not going to jump on a bandwaggon that I didn't agree with. My point is that, yeah we didn't know the roles at the time, but I still had the best vote! And that's really frustrating, cause I think the BG voters should be looking way worse, since the girl was clearly just confused and her explanation made sense, but a bunch of people were jumping on her without really taking the time to try and understand what she was saying, it was a bad bandwaggon, and it sucks that me being a part of it may have actually made me look better than me voting a wolf!

K. I'm done for real this time. My Day 1 votes just always come back to bite me no matter what, and it's driving me nuts.



I hadn't thought of modfire for Mira's death, I guess that does make the most sense.

I'm going to go back and re-read the last page from Day 1, cause to me people who voted BG look bad and I want to see which of them looks worse. Then maybe I'll make a list.

[wilwarin538]

Votes from yesterDay:

Lottie –> Pitchwife
Blind Guardian –> Lottie
Isabellkya –> Blind Guardian
Shasta –> Blind Guardian (2)
Paranoia -> Blind Guardian (3)
Inziladun -> Blind Guardian (4)
Wilwarin -> Sally

Okee. So even though Lottie didn't vote for BG I think she looks pretty bad, cause she really pushed that bandwaggon. Izzy started it, but I don't think she looks as bad for it because it was the first vote and the reason made sense to her. Kind of the same for Shasta, though I don't like the way they both continued to pounce on BG. I mean I know it all happened in like 20 minutes, and that's not a lot of time to consider things, but still, I was able to figure it out in less time. Paranoia came in and did his (right?) own analysis of the situation and then voted, but pretty much just followed what other's were saying, so he makes me uneasy too . Inzil popped in and bandwaggoned, which everyone seems ok with, but I don't like it, he had been suspicious of Eomer and yeah he said BG's vote was poor, but then he disappeared for the next 20 minutes, and just popped in to vote without trying to get in on the discussion going on then or trying to help everyone figure out what BG was trying to say. I really dislike that.

So basically everyone who voted yesterday looks bad to me. In order of how bad they look: Inzil, Lottie, Shasta, Para, Izzy.

So a list then? Mostly based off of Day 1. After I post this I'll take a closer look at today to see if anything changes my mind on anyone.

Inziladun – do not like. Vote was bad, and his convenient disappearing act for the last 20 minutes bugs me to no end.

Paranoia – don't like vote yesterDay, at all.

Pitchwife – uhm, no real opinion at the moment, will get back to him after reading through today.

Loslote – I really don't like the way she kept going after BG, even though she didn't vote for her I see her as being instrumental in the whole bandwaggoning process, and to me it just seemed like she was set on getting her lynched and wasn't really willing to try and understand what BG was explaining.

Isabellkya – first to vote for BG, but at that point she had a good reason too, since BG hadn't come on to explain her mistake by that point. Her continuing to go after her still urks me, but I think that was more her standing by her vote rather then trying to get other people to follow it.

Shasta – kind of similar to Izzy, but he seemed to latch on to something promising and really role with it more then she did.

That whole bandwaggon was because people didn't feel like taking a second and comparing the two lists, I did, and I very quickly understood what she had been saying, I'm sure other's would have as well. Shasta, Para and Inzil especially had the oppurtunity to really look into it, and none of them really seemed to want to (except maybe Para a bit since he did repost BG's list, but certainly Inzil didn't try)

wintywinty – no oppinion.

Rikae - fine with.

So at this point I'd be willing to vote for Inzil, Lottie or Shasta.

Now I'll look closer at today.

x'ed with Pitch and Inzil

[wilwarin538]

Things I found interesting, and why:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Triple post, page four, and I'd like to add:
that BG-wagon yesterDay was terrible and an example of Day one stupidity at its worst. I know, I didn't vote, it's easy for me to say - but for crying out loud, voting for someone because of such an obvious bit of sloppiness? Does anyone here actually think a wolf would do that, unless an experienced and tricksy enough wolf to do it as a "no wolf would be so careless" bluff? I'm going to have to look more closely at that wagon - though I understand innocents can sometimes commit such egregious
DAY ONE FAILS too. Don't worry, folks, if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear.

I like this. Even though she is suspecting me for my vote (when she said herself that Sally's vote was indeed out of character), I'm ok with her right now.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

(and I happen to know that Vanessa's a very ebullient personality <3)

I had to google that word. But thanks. <3

Originally Posted by Loslote

(I wonder how many stuff we can stick onto Wilwa's name? )

Vanilordoinnawesomuffin. A lot.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

No, I fully understand your reason, and agree what BG did there would have looked rather wolvish to me as well at the time. But voting her right away without giving her a chance to explain herself?

And I'm not saying that we should concentrate on the BG voters exclusively and ignore everybody else. Like Rikae said, innocents can make bad votes too. But I wouldn't bet that there was no morph at all in that wagon. And given that votes are the best evidence we get in WW, along with the Night-kills, pretending it never happened or blaming it all on BG herself is going to accomplish zip.

I like all of this too. And I think I'm ok with Pitch.

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You listed it yourself. BG listed Loslote as 'relatively innocent' in #69. Three posts later, she voted for Loslote. I don't see that as a possible 'noobish' mistake; more akin to noobish wolf yes. In a span of three posts, you somehow forget who you think is innocent, and who is suspicious? Her explanation for how Loslote ended up in that category.. was rather lackluster - not that it entirely mattered at that point.

It seems like you don't fully comprehend my reasons for voting for BG and the implications. If someone makes a mistake like she did - it implies her list of suspicions was fabricated. She did copy it from Loslote. Who would need a fabricated list? Innocent's don't. But metamorphs do.

Bolded part: It still bugs me that some people don't understand that she put her in the wrong category by accident (exclamation marks people, that totally gave away that she had done it on accident). To me it's obvious. BG made a mistake, people pounced on it, and when she tried to explain it they didn't want to take the time to understand, and just kept pushing.

Underlined part: No, not true. I think she was heading out at the time? So she saw someone had made a list and in order to be sure she didn't forget anyone's name, and because there would already be a format, she just copy and pasted it and then rearranged the names, and did it to save time (and goofed). I've done it before (as an innocent, as a gifted, as a wolf, as an everything I'm sure), it's a time saver, not a sign of guilt.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Except that my vote X'ed with Izzy's.

I had not noticed the crosspost. I suppose that makes you look a bit better.

edit: x'ed with Pitch x 2

[Pitchwife]

Bedtime, and voting time.

++Paranoia

If you're wondering why, you haven't read my posts toDay. I'm not comfortable with voting him before he's had a chance to respond, but given our different time zones, it can't be helped. He looks like the most suspicious of the BG voters to me, and I'm not that confident about voting anybody else. And if he's indeed a morph, he's a dangerous one, so get rid of him NOW.

Good Night, and may the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless your planet.

[wilwarin538]

Ok, so I'm going to sleep early since I work in the morning.

I'm not going to vote for Inzil, because I have the feeling no one will go along with that. Ditto for Lottie and Shasta. So I'll go with my fourth option, though I wasn't originally planning on voting him, I'm willing to since I do find him suspicious and I'd rather not waste my vote toDay.

++Paranoia

Good night, and good luck!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Ok, so I'm going to sleep early since I work in the morning.

I'm not going to vote for Inzil, because I have the feeling no one will go along with that. Ditto for Lottie and Shasta. So I'll go with my fourth option, though I wasn't originally planning on voting him, I'm willing to since I do find him suspicious and I'd rather not waste my vote toDay.

[*highlight]++Paranoia[/highlight]

Good night, and good luck!

This...this has to be one of the most blatant pieces of bandwaggoning I have ever seen... Vanilwuffin, dear, if you're trying not to look suspicious, this is not the way to do so.

EDIT: xed with Vanilwuffin herself

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Loslote

This...this has to be one of the most blatant pieces of bandwaggoning I have ever seen... Vanilwuffin, dear, if you're trying not to look suspicious, this is not the way to do so.

Uhm, I know. I am exhausted, and really annoyed, and don't really know what else to do. I either vote for someone I really find suspicious, knowing full well that no one else will vote for them and therefore wasting my vote. Or I bandwagon a little and use my vote for someone I do find suspicious, and maybe it'll be a bit more useful.

I vote a wolf. I look bad. I don't vote the seer. I look bad. I don't bandwagon. I look bad. I do bandwagon. I look bad. I vote for someone I barely find suspicious. I look bad. I vote for someone I do find suspicious. I look bad.

I'm thinking no matter, I'm gonna look bad. And the sucky thing is I'm really not bad!

Uh. I know I should shut up now cause I'm probably not making things any better, but I'm really at a loss to what I should be doing right now...

x'ed with Lottie again.

Out of the 5 BG voters (I'm counting Lottie technically in there, since she helped push it along), 2 are under some real suspicion, and of the 2 I think Para looks worse (I said earlier that the cross post thing with Shasta made him look better). I think it's a pretty logical vote.

[Paranoia]

You know, reading this over, Pitch, I'm finding you really intersting right now.

Let's start with your analysis of yesterday's votes and actions, and your, you know, overall willingness to attack someone who so far hasn't posted or said anything at all today. Yes, lets.

I don't think I really have to defend myself on the BG vote; I put down why I voted her, reasons beyond the "omg the lists didn't match up" and I did indeed look at both lists; the explanation made absolutely no sense to me and it still doesn't, because the titles were different, and she had obviously reworked bits and pieces of it. There was simply no other conclusion I could come to in my mind. And I honestly think the person who looks the worse out of what happened in the last 20 or so minutes is Willwuffin, because no matter how I read her posts there it all felt like the same thing.

"I really think BG is innocent but I'm not going to deign to tell you guys why I think so, despite how blatantly suspect she is being. I'm going to blithely throw my vote away on sally, and continue saying that even though I think BG is really innocent, I'm not going to meaningfully help her in any shape or form."

On another note, when Shasta and Izzy showed up to defend themselves, you were readily willing to relent; you went from one to the next and then finally me, but as interesting as that is, you completely ignored Zul. It's one thing to vote an innocent with a reason and turn out wrong. It's another thing to vote an innocent without saying a bloody thing, being wrong, and skating by. Something's off there.

Another thing is your basically list topping suspicion of Wilowil.. and yet you still vote me. Something's off there, considering you've basically link her with me/shasta/izzy as the definite member of whatever morphpack is on the ship. Care to explain why you voted me above the one constant amongst your conjecture? "Well well if you're a wolf you're dangerous!" Doesn't cut it. That is always a horrible reason, because you are basically bringing a justification into the game that boils down to "what if they're a wolf?"

I am also not liking Willy's "wahhh the bandwagonners got off scott clean! wahhh why am I under suspicion!" posts. You won't deflect attention, Morph.

Also, to those who are going "He was in the middle of the BG voters where he can skate on by!!!!" Really let me ask you; are you just trying to get on my nerves with that logic? Morphs, Wolves, and Mafia will vote in any order they please. And I don't really call it bandwagoning when someone can provide decent reasoning; bandwagoning to me is just simply voting for someone with an overall rehashed reason.

But let's have a hypothetical situation. Let's say I was a morph. Would I have any reason to vote BG, or further add fuel to the fire when it looked like she was going to get lynched on her own anyway? Nope. It's like last game. Every post of her's added fuel to the metaphorical fire, and the more I looked at her the worse I felt about her. I said as much, and I gave reasoning for why I felt the way I did. If I was Morphanoia, I would have known she was innocent. I probably would have thrown an insubstantial vote on someone I was more suspicious earlier in the day on say... Eomer. That way I have a throwaway that isn't a, you know, obvious throwaway. UNLIKE SOME PEOPLE I COULD MENTION *COUGH*WILLYWUFIKINS*COUGH*. Yes, it sucks she was the seer. Yes, I was wrong. But honestly nothing else made more sense to me at the moment, and her explanation for the differentiation between her suspect list and her vote of lottie for lottie's asking others to come along and vote just did not sit well with me.

On the Note of Lottie: I am very much inclined to think her innocent at the moment, simply based on the fact she didn't have to push for BG for the lynch, nor does she right now have to be stopping (or trying at least) the lynch of an innocent. Overall, she's doing more genuine analysis than I remember from her wolf counterpart, who was rather happy to let things progress how they were going.

I'm also having a hard time reading Zul as a wolf, as since BG seemed like a sure thing at the end of yesterday, he'd have no reason to just come and vote her without a word; Now, this isn't to say he might not have done that as a sneaakkky gambit to say "well as a wolf I wouldn't do that" but... it feels doubtful at the moment.

WIth all of this in mind, my vote is going to

++Willowuffyfluffykins, also known as Wilwarin.

Should I get lynched in the interrim, I'm laying down my suspicions as Pitch, Wilwarin, and Zul as a possibility. I am uneasy about Izzy but I don't feel too bad about her at the moment. I believe Shasta, Lottie, and Rikae as town.

Also, yes my accusation of Rikae in my first post was meant as a joke, both in poking fun at how high strung I was my first game and as a bit of hypocritical humor. I didn't think I'd have to explain this... but there you go.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Inzil popped in and bandwaggoned, which everyone seems ok with, but I don't like it, he had been suspicious of Eomer and yeah he said BG's vote was poor, but then he disappeared for the next 20 minutes, and just popped in to vote without trying to get in on the discussion going on then or trying to help everyone figure out what BG was trying to say. I really dislike that.

As I already said, I spent the time in between trying to make up my mind about BG. There was no point in questioning her: others were already asking what I would have. When it came to DL I had to decide between her or Sally. Since I saw no chance of getting Sally lynched, I went ahead with BG. I still feel that your making a throwaway vote like you did looks worse than the BG voters.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Bedtime, and voting time.

++Paranoia

If you're wondering why, you haven't read my posts toDay. I'm not comfortable with voting him before he's had a chance to respond, but given our different time zones, it can't be helped. He looks like the most suspicious of the BG voters to me, and I'm not that confident about voting anybody else. And if he's indeed a morph, he's a dangerous one, so get rid of him NOW.

Para, hmm? To me he's really an enigma rather than suspicious, and I really would like to hear what he has to say before I'd consider voting him.

x/d with Wilwa. Bandwagon, anyone?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Wilwa. Bandwagon, anyone?

You can, but I can't?

And it's the second vote of the day, I wouldn't call it bandwaggoning. I do actually find him suspicious, maybe not the most, but I'm not going to vote for someone that I'm pretty positive won't be getting lynched, I would rather not waste my vote like I did yesterDay.

All the bandwaggoners got off fairly clean toDay, but the person who didn't bandwaggon and voted a wolf is suspicious. Now I do what ya'll did yesterDay and I look bad?

You have to see I'm in a very frustrating position here.

x'ed with Lottie

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

You can, but I can't?

And it's the second vote of the day, I wouldn't call it bandwaggoning. I do actually find him suspicious, maybe not the most, but I'm not going to vote for someone that I'm pretty positive won't be getting lynched, I would rather not waste my vote like I did yesterDay.

All the bandwaggoners got off fairly clean toDay, but the person who didn't bandwaggon and voted a wolf is suspicious. Now I do what ya'll did yesterDay and I look bad?

You have to see I'm in a very frustrating position here.

x'ed with Lottie

They didn't get off fairly clean; they're some of the most highly suspected players toDay. Shasta topped several suspicion lists for a while, and Noia still does. Izzy's still rather suspected (I think) by Pitchie, and by me, though I've only just been able to mention it. Zil hasn't been suspected all the much, true, and neither have I, but not "all the bandwaggoners got off fairly clean toDay."

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

(so I take it that her earlier 'voting an innocent' was not referring to BG's list?)

No, it was referring to my innocence.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

#67 Lottie votes me for 'feeling off' = being Mr Agreeable. (How come I 'feel off' for that when I'm suspected for it in every other game?) Her preceding list had me under 'squeamish' and wilwa under 'most suspicious', but her attitude here looks confident and ready to defend her vote (which I'd like to see her do!), therefore rather innocentish.

You were feeling a bit off yesterDay. That's cleared up now, though - you are certainly not acting like Mr. Agreeable this game.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And you had to repair the water leak because our Chief Engineer Lottie well, might have made it worse.

Might have? There is a question?

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Bedtime, and voting time.

[*highlight]++Paranoia[/highlight]

If you're wondering why, you haven't read my posts toDay. I'm not comfortable with voting him before he's had a chance to respond, but given our different time zones, it can't be helped. He looks like the most suspicious of the BG voters to me, and I'm not that confident about voting anybody else. And if he's indeed a morph, he's a dangerous one, so get rid of him NOW.

Good Night, and may the Great Bird of the Galaxy bless your planet.

I really want to wait for Noia to respond, and even when he does, I don't think I'll be voting for him toDay.

EDIT: Xed -