WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Thinlómien]

As for Skip, well, I must admit my theory regarding the ranger save was stupid, I'm sorry I didn't think it through. The evidence indeed points to the cursed being turned, which is something I don't like at all. Or the wolf could've missed a kill (especially if it's Nerwen the infamous DL-misser ).

As for her, I don't like her commentary on Skip's death at all. She even herself said a wolf would pay attention to such stuff, and that's exactly what she did. It just seems too far-fetchedly precise to be innocent.

And Agan, don't try to convince me you would certainly have a different voting record as a wolf. I don't doubt your ability to throw your fellows under the bus, but I also know that you are one to make risky moves - and not voting Sally or Glirdan would be one.

There's something eerie about Legate's few recent posts. He doesn't even bother to acknowledge the points against him, and he uses his time in looking at Skip's posts and basically saying nothing about them... Don't like it at all.

I'm here for a while now and I will come back for a short second later although I really should be sleeping then...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And Agan, don't try to convince me you would certainly have a different voting record as a wolf. I don't doubt your ability to throw your fellows under the bus, but I also know that you are one to make risky moves - and not voting Sally or Glirdan would be one.

I know there's no use trying, you'll see when I die or the game is over, but you can ask yourself anyway why Aganwolf would incriminate herself by not suspecting sally and Glirdan, of all people.

It's just that you suspect me for something Aganwolf is very unlikely to do, saying "she could be appearing dumb on purpose to make herself look more innocent," so basically you've decided I'm suspicious and how I act doesn't matter in the least because either way you could accuse me. And that's either stupid or a very convenient wolf plan.

[Thinlómien]

I wouldn't say dumb. What's dumb about helping your fellows? I know not wolf-on-wolfing may be regarded dumb by some, but I personally disagree. The times I have won as a wolf were the ones when me and my fellows stuck together, not when we voted each other. The profits of wolf-on-wolfing are generally overestimated - look at Nerwen here, half the village suspects her even though she voted all the known wolves. Of course, some wolf-on-wolf votes look very innocent, but they're the ones that are so risky 90% wolves wouldn't make them.

And it's not just that your voting record is eyeborw-raising but what you yourself said: a to-die Nog wolf could/would have made sure his fellow looks good and votes him, and you happen to be one of the few living players whose first vote on a wolf was on that said Day.

Lastly, with maybe the exception of Legate, we only have people whose voting record is quite off (you, Shasta) or very precise (me, Nerwen, Brinn) and I've got to suspect somebody. (Winty not included 'cos I don't remember his votes. ) You just happen to creep me out, and I was trying to think if Aganwolf would've voted like you have, and I concluded that she could have.

Although, if it helps, your obvious dislike of people referring to your not very wolf-full voting record kind of speaks for your innocence.

Gotta run as soon as I finish eating! I'll be back.


edit: xed with Agan

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Agan

As for winty, I think it's better to ignore him, regardless of his role, until he starts to post more. And if somebody tries to lynch him today "just to be on the safe side," they are either wolves or stupid. Because we just can't afford to check people out, at least as long as we don't know if there's one or two wolves.

Totally agreed, btw...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

The times I have won as a wolf were the ones when me and my fellows stuck together, not when we voted each other.

And the games I've won as a wolf were those in which I voted for all of my fellows who were lynched... I have acted to save a fellow from the gallows once, and that was when we were one day away from victory.

Although, if it helps, your obvious dislike of people referring to your not very wolf-full voting record kind of speaks for your innocence.

Yeah I know I've played badly but do you have to keep flaunting it at me? I would be better as a wolf.

Anyway I should go now.

++Nerwen

Because at least I have a case against her instead of a vague bad feeling. But I'm by no means convinced, not only because she has looked better of late but because some others have started to worry me too. I might be back later but I wouldn't count on it...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nerwen, why don't you suspect me? This is a weird question, I know, but I'm curious.

I didn't say I don't suspect you. I'm just not convinced you're a wolf– certainly not enough to find this post of Lommy's or this all that reassuring.

Now, let me present

NERWEN'S INFALLIBLE CAST-IRON ARGUMENTS FOR WHY EVERYONE IS A WOLF.

In no particular order:

Aganzir– I don't see what Aganwolf would have to gain by pursuing me to the extent she has, (unless she's trying to revive the old "witch-hunt" technique, but that would be foolhardy). Still, not only does she have a bad voting record, she has the gall to try and use that as evidence for her innocence. I mean, really.

Legate– Smooth to the point of being slippery (as always, mind you), puts up what might be subtle defences of all three known wolves, seems very opportunistic in his voting and suspicions.

Lommy– I don't really suspect her that much at all. However she's been the one pushing the idea that either Agan or I must be a wolf, and therefore that the innocence of one would prove the guilt of the other. Which I don't think follows at all, and could give the wolves a free lynch.

Brinn– voting record almost eerily good, (yes, I know, the pot addresses the kettle) possible subtle defence of Glirdan. Yeah, whatever, I already looked at her a couple of Days ago and she came up "inconclusive". Now, however, I'm starting to find her actually creepy, mainly because of this, toDay:

Originally Posted by Brinniel
Can we please lynch Nerwen toDay? I still find her suspicious and whatever her role may be, knowing it will at least ease my mind. Okay, I promise to try looking at others too to see if anyone else turns up more suspicious, but I really don't have much time toDay.

My bolding. This late in the game, with an unknown number of wolves still around, lynching me is worth it just to set her poor little mind at rest– even if I turn out innocent, it seems ("whatever her role"). Not good.
Also, picks up on the "one of them must be a wolf" meme.

Shasta– I'm not getting any bad vibes from him. However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf...

wintywinty– Dead silence... more dead silence... even more dead silence... then turns up just before DL and votes "++theleadingcandidate. Yeah, I've suspected him all along. Or is it her?"

Finally, just for the heck of it–

Lottie– Well, it would be bloody hilarious if it turned out she was a wolf all the time and there was a secret rule gagging the remaining Shirriff. I'd laugh. Really, I would.

EDIT:X'd since Agan's vote-post.

[Aganzir]

I'm trying to decide whether I should stick with my earlier suspicions (I have bad experiences of letting go of pursuing a wolf because they began to look more innocent) or vote for somebody who I haven't been suspicious of before (mainly Lommy but also Legate & Brinn, to an extent)...

Heck this is so frustrating.

As for winty, I think it's better to ignore him, regardless of his role, until he starts to post more. And if somebody tries to lynch him today "just to be on the safe side," they are either wolves or stupid. Because we just can't afford to check people out, at least as long as we don't know if there's one or two wolves.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I think I might vote and go soon. I have been waking up early today and I'm already getting slightly tired. If I knew when exactly is Lommy going to return, I would wait at least for her or somebody to post before I go to sleep, but this way I might just call it off...

After recent posts of Nerwen, I will be even more inclined to vote Agan than her, because Agan now seems like a more likely Wolf to me. She has just reached the limit of my suspicions and she behaves especially toDay a bit more careful than I think she has before. (It might be that it seems to me because the arguing has been reduced, but still it's there.) Of course especially for a lonely Aganwolf or an Aganwolf with a well-hidden packmate it will be rather easy and merry environment to move in, I am sure. She also seems to be opening herself slowly to new things and in general sort of having the back door (for the case if Nerwen is lynched and innocent?), like in the post where she lists some people, or here:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I'm trying to decide whether I should stick with my earlier suspicions (I have bad experiences of letting go of pursuing a wolf because they began to look more innocent) or vote for somebody who I haven't been suspicious of before (mainly Lommy but also Legate & Brinn, to an extent)...

Heck this is so frustrating.

That "frustrating" part also makes me wonder if it's genuine. I am just now getting this creepy picture of Aganwolf into my head. In either case, even if we have a Cursed, I find it extremely unlikely that both of Aganzir and Nerwen are Wolves. I would right now say that Agan is a bit, little tiny bit, higher than Nerwen - probably by that one post made by Nerwen a while ago - in my suspicions.

Of course I can sympathise with Brinn's feelings concerning having Nerwen haunting the place around, however, if this was the last Day and I was to decide right now, like "put your bets on one person", then I would say Agan.

Okay. Let me think about it for a while yet, let's see if anybody posts or posted, and then I will just vote. Urgh.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. Nobody seems to be around... and if I am to be decisive... let it be so.

++Aganzir

I am really getting sleepy, so... good night, folks. And let's hope we do it right this time and celebrate after this.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And let's hope we do it right this time and celebrate after this.

That's an awfully forced-looking, creepy comment. And it has nothing to do with the fact that you voted for me.

[Thinlómien]

I'm here, just a few comments, check if I cross-posted and then vote.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lommy– I don't really suspect her that much at all. However she's been the one pushing the idea that either Agan or I must be a wolf, and therefore that the innocence of one would prove the guilt of the other. Which I don't think follows at all, and could give the wolves a free lynch.

I don't claim either of you has to be a wolf, or that one being innocent proves the other one must be guilty. Not at all. I just personally suspect you two the most by far and can't quite decide which one of you more, so if one of you dies, I will be (most likely) next trying my other top suspect. Does that make sense?

Originally Posted by Shasta

Wait... I wonder how an Aganwolf/wintyCursed scenario would play out? I suppose Lommy could fit there too, instead of Agan, based on wanting to keep winty in the game... but that could just be because we disagree on what to do about him.

Well, I know you can't take my word for it, but if I was Winty's fellow, I would feel like cheating if I was telling people to ignore him because of his small amount of participation.

And as for him, I agree with Brinn - we can't really afford lynching him right now, or we will be more or less in the same point as in the beginning of this Day and I also predict several players will feel like giving up. I know Winty can be a wolf and can be slipping under everybody's radar, but like somebody said about lynching Nerwen, this is not really the point when we can lynch people just to be on the safe side, especially as we already did that yesterDay with Mira.

Originally Posted by Legate

That said, the fact that you don't want to lynch ww, even though it might be a possible candidate with some support, makes you again look better in my eyes... unless you two are comrades now... I would expect a Wolf to be a lot more open to a possible lynch, especially if under suspicion.

That's really no proof, because even if she didn't say she suspected Winty, she could vote him later to save herself and look no worse because of that (although this game starts to be in the point where innocent Nerwen might do the village a favour by going felagund ...)

[Thinlómien]

++NERWEN

remains my top suspect. We had seriously better get her lynched this time around, although we will undoubtedly feel stupid whatever she turns out to be.

Aganzir I'm still torn about. My feelings about her go like a rollercoaster, I can't quite make up my mind. And yes, I will really look at her more closely if Nerwen turns out innocent. (Or maybe even if she turns out guilty and the game continues because somehow a Nerwolf + Agan-cursed scenario doesn't sound as unlikely as you could fathom... )

Legate feels a bit more innocent now, although if we lynch Nerwen toDay and she turns out innocent, I'd look at him and how he smoothly backed away instead of bloodying his pretty little hands. But generally he seems honest and sort of genuinely confusedly wishy-washyish. I'm not too worries - for now.

I believe I have said enough about Winty. I also hope he comes around and posts more. Now that the amount of participants and posts has dropped substantially, maybe he'll find it easier.

Lastly, I still think Brinn and Shasta innocent. I don't think a wolf-Brinn would so ruthlessly have voted all her fellows and her tone seems genuine. Like I've said before, I can't really see Shasta as fellows with Sally or Nogrod, so I feel pretty safe in assuming him innocent, especially as he seems innocent generally too (although we do disagree on everything ).

That's all from me toDay, it'll be 2am here soon and I have to wake up at 7... eww.

[Aganzir]

I made it here after all but I'm still at my friend's place and can't hang around here for long.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

My point was that, if winty is the last wolf, and wins, we can say "oh he didn't deserve to win" all we like, but it doesn't change the facts.

And if he's lynched an innocent, the last wolf/wolves are a step closer to victory because his death doesn't really reveal anything about anyone. At least in so far as I can see. And if he is innocent and the wolves manage to lynch him today and win tomorrow, well, good job.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If I knew when exactly is Lommy going to return,

She's outside of the apartment, busy being a game master. So I assume it's going to take her at least an hour to get home, maybe more.

Originally Posted by Legate

she behaves especially toDay a bit more careful than I think she has before.

Because I've been far busier today than on any other day perchance?

My selfish part would love to be lynched (or night-killed, for that matter). At least I wouldn't have to worry about who to lynch tomorrow. But I suppose it's sort of my duty to stay alive for now... being innocent and all!
You are of course free to lynch me, but I doubt it will reveal much because my innocence doesn't mean that Nerwen must be a wolf or anything...

Oh and now I know why I'm feeling uneasy about Brinn. She looks too good and sensible.

[wilwarin538]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Alirin did trot along the way,
Hoping to find escadom
From this torribly long day,
Or atleast this deadful kingdom.

Then she saw the Jabberwock,
And the beast made her afeared.
She sooked about but stopped her walk,
When the vorpal sword appeared.

She took the vorpal sword in hand:
Though the skill she'd ne’er been taught—
So rested she by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought she stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

“I am a Culf and the Worsed,
Though I have not been for long!”
The Jabberwocky loudly versed,
As he proudly sang it like a song!

“I cannot pass this dreadful beast,
And I have not the skills to slay,
But I just cannot become it’s feast,
So to slay it is the only way!"

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
She left it dead, and left its head
And went galumphing back.

“O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
I slew the Jabberwock!”
The girl did skip and sing away,
As she continued on her walk.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Dead
Fea - Red Queen - Cobbler - lynched Day 1
Boro - the Caterpillar - Shirriff - killed Night 2
Sally - the Dormouse - Wolf - lynched Day 2
Izzy - White Rabbit - Ordinary - killed Night 3
Glirdan - Mad Hatter - Wolf - lynched Day 3
Greenie - White Night - Seer - killed Night 4
Nogrod – Cheshire Cat – Wolf – lynched Day 4
Nienna - White Queen - Hunter - killed Night 5
Inzil - King of Hearts - Ordinary - hunter killed Night 5
Morsul - Mock Turtle - Ordinary - lynched Day 5
Mira - March Hare - Ordinary - lynched Day 6
Skip - Humpty Dumpty - Ranger - killed Night 7
Legate - Jabberwocky - Cursed-Wolf - lynched Day 7

Alive
Wintywinty – Tweedledum
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen – the Dodo
Lommy – the Gryphon
Brinniel – Tweedledee

It is still Night 8.

[wilwarin538]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Alirin continued walking yet again, feeling rather proud about her triumph over the dread Jabberwocky. Soon she came upon a fork in the road with two signs, one that said “To the house of Tweedledee” and the other said “To Tweedledum’s house”. The odd thing was that they were both pointing in the same direction.

Alirin decided to follow the signs and soon came upon two fat little men, each with an arm around the other’s neck. One had DEE written on his collar, and the other had DUM. They were standing completely still, so Alirin just stood in front of them and waited.

“If you think we’re wax works, you ought to pay you know,” Dum said, “Wax-works weren’t made to be looked at for nothing, nohow!”

“Contrariwise,” added Dee, “if you think we’re alive you ought to speak.”

“I’m sure I must be very sorry,” Alirin said, as she thought about the old poem.

Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.

Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel.

“I know what you’re thinking about,” said Dum,”but it isn’t so, nohow.”

“Contrariwise,” said Dee, “if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

The three stood for a moment just looking around at each other.

“Do you see that?” Dum suddenly said, in a voice choking with passion as he pointed with a trembling finger at a small white thing lying under a tree.

“It's only a rattle,” Alirin said, after a careful examination of the little white thing. “quite old and broken.''

“I knew it was!” cried Tweedledum, beginning to stamp about wildly and tear his hair. “It's spoilt, of course!” Here he looked at Tweedledee, who immediately sat down on the ground, and tried to hide himself under a shrubbery.

Alice laid her hand upon Dum’s arm, and said in a soothing tone, “You needn't be so angry about an old rattle.”

“But it isn't old!” Dum cried, in a greater fury than ever. “It's new, I tell you -- I bought it yesterday -- my nice NEW RATTLE!” and his voice rose to a perfect scream. Alirin quickly covered her ears as Dee crawled even further under the shrubbery.

“Of course you agree to have a battle?” Dum said in a calmer tone.

“I suppose so,” the other sulkily replied, as he crawled out of the shrub.
The two ran off and came back about three minutes later wearing full armour made out of table clothes, blankets and towels, and saucepans for helmets.

"Let's fight till six, and then have dinner," said Tweedledum.

"Very well," the other said, rather sadly: "and she can watch us -- only you'd better not come very close," he added: "I generally hit everything I can see -- when I get really excited."

"And I hit everything within reach," cried Tweedledum, "whether I can see it or not!"

As the two got ready to fight it suddenly became very dark. Alirin looked around and saw that there was a giant crow coming straight at them! Dee was able to take cover in time, but Dum could not escape and was taken up by the giant crow. Alirin hid under a tree and waited until it was out of sight, and by the time she got out of her cover Tweedledee was nowhere to be seen, and Tweedledum was off somewhere with the crow.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Dead
Fea - Red Queen - Cobbler - lynched Day 1
Boro - the Caterpillar - Shirriff - killed Night 2
Sally - the Dormouse - Wolf - lynched Day 2
Izzy - White Rabbit - Ordinary - killed Night 3
Glirdan - Mad Hatter - Wolf - lynched Day 3
Greenie - White Night - Seer - killed Night 4
Nogrod – Cheshire Cat – Wolf – lynched Day 4
Nienna - White Queen - Hunter - killed Night 5
Inzil - King of Hearts - Ordinary - hunter killed Night 5
Morsul - Mock Turtle - Ordinary - lynched Day 5
Mira - March Hare - Ordinary - lynched Day 6
Skip - Humpty Dumpty - Ranger - killed Night 7
Legate - Jabberwocky - Cursed-Wolf - lynched Day 7
Wintywinty - Tweedledum - Ordinary - killed Night 8

Alive
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen – the Dodo
Lommy – the Gryphon
Brinniel – Tweedledee

It is now Day 8.

[Loslote]

Huh. Rather a strange turn of events...

Anyway. We have a bit more wiggle room now, but we still do have to kill the last wolf soon. My little list of Lottie logic:

I trust:
Me.

I mostly trust:
Shasta
Brinn
Agan

I suspect
Lommy
Nerwen

And I'll post with reasons for that grouping later toDay, but I don't have time for analysii right now, so I'll hang around for a few minutes and then be back when most everyone is asleep.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Huh. Rather a strange turn of events...

Anyway. We have a bit more wiggle room now, but we still do have to kill the last wolf soon. My little list of Lottie logic:

I trust:
Me.

I mostly trust:
Shasta
Brinn
Agan

I suspect
Lommy
Nerwen

And I'll post with reasons for that grouping later toDay, but I don't have time for analysii right now, so I'll hang around for a few minutes and then be back when most everyone is asleep.

...What? Did you not observe Brinniel's attempt to save Legate yesterDay?

Besides, I've read through the last couple of Days, and it looks to me like it's her– with Lommy as a runner-up.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen's suspicion list

Green
Me
Lottie

Self-explanatory.


Yellow-green
Shasta
Aganzir

Shasta voted Legate at a time when both Agan and I were viable lynches (see x-posting). Legate voted Agan when neither of them were clearly doomed, yet both were in danger– i.e. not a likely wolf-on-wolf vote. Anyway, not only is it late for such bold tactics, but voting for wolves has tend to draw suspicion this game.

================================================== =

Orange
Lommy

Encouraged suspicion of yours truly in a "not-really-doing-it" kind of way; phrases it in a way that suggests she knows I'm innocent ("we will undoubtedly feel stupid whatever she turns out to be"); made weird argument against the Cursed having been found; defends Legate.


Red
Brinniel

Basically, Lommy squared: ambiguous relations with known wolves; built up suspicion on me by coolly repeating "she's evil" until everyone believed it (like I said, I just can't see that there is a case on me); again she sounds like she knows I'm innocent ("whatever her role"); keeps her hands clean in the Morsul and Mira lynches, but in a way that suggests to me she knew their roles too; Legate defends her; she attempts to save Legate.

I have to do some stuff now, but as soon as I have time I'll provide chapter and verse for all this.

At the moment, I'd say it's almost certainly one of them, and that my suspicions are split about 80-20 Brinn's way.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

...What? Did you not observe Brinniel's attempt to save Legate yesterDay?

You've gotta be kidding me, right? I made it quite clear that I had every intention of voting for you from the very beginning of the Day. Did you not get the memo?

Anyway, I'm relieved Legate was cursed because he did look awfully innocent in the first half of the game (which means I wasn't completely fooled) . YesterDay I could see some valid points against him, but even if he was climbing up my radar, there's no way I'm going to jump on a bandwagon to lynch a player I haven't gotten the chance to look at for myself. And especially not when there's a potential candidate I suspect more.

Strange that Lottie didn't die last Night...now's usually the time where it's dangerous to keep around known innocents. In any case, I'm quite alright with last Night's kill choice...this means no chance for a dumb winty lynch.

It would make sense to go back and look at everyone...just trying to figure out how I'm going to do that since tomorrow is another busy day for me. I'd have to give props to Lommy if she is a wolf...remembering her interactions with other wolves in the past, it doesn't seem likely she is one. She'd have to be extremely bold and confident in taking such risks, which is possible, but right now I'm thinking her innocent. It's also possible Shasta is a wolf, but again I still find it less likely. I don't know, what are the chances that Nogrod would set up a case against a fellow wolf at a time when he himself would probably be lynched?

So far, I'm thinking Nerwen or Agan our most likely wolves, with Nerwen on top. This case she's attempting to set up against me which seems to have a lot to do with the idea that I "saved" Legate by voting her only puts her in a worse light. I've had innocents suspect me before, and while I'd be frustrated, their suspicion feels genuine. I've also had wolves make up cases against me in a major effort to get me lynched (remember that, Agan?) and everything about it seems forced to me. Right now, I'm reminded of the latter.

Btw, I'm wondering if toDay is the best Day for our unicorn to come out of the closet. It'd be nice that if we didn't get the wolf toDay that he/she would end up killing the unicorn and possibly give us an extra Day. But if that didn't happen, then the wolf could easily make a false claim toMorrow and force the remaining players to decide who the real unicorn is...and if they got it wrong, the wolf would win. Or if we're unlucky, the cobbler could be brought back, which would be bad news.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Btw, I'm wondering if toDay is the best Day for our unicorn to come out of the closet. It'd be nice that if we didn't get the wolf toDay that he/she would end up killing the unicorn and possibly give us an extra Day. But if that didn't happen, then the wolf could easily make a false claim toMorrow and force the remaining players to decide who the real unicorn is...and if they got it wrong, the wolf would win. Or if we're unlucky, the cobbler could be brought back, which would be bad news.

I think it is. With two known innocents, the list of possible candidates will narrow down considerably. Actually, if the wolf could reveal his true role, too, that'd narrow it down even more. Oh, wolfie?

Seriously, though, I do think the time has come.