WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[Aganzir]

Lommy that's unfair you know how much I like crows!

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

So if the seer dreams of a player and gets the result 'innocent' then do they not know whom the Cobbler is? Or is it meant to say ordo?

I think in this case innocent = ordo. Both are seen as ordos.

You can't blame the seer entirely if the rest of the village decides to take them at their word.

That's true and that's why everybody should remember that a seer-dreamed innocent is not necessarily innocent after all...

Anyway Izzie seems innocent enough.

Morsul if everyone else calls your 'scientific method' knee-jerk, have you perchance thought there might be something wrong with your definition?

Now I'll go brew some mint leaves and will be soon back to vote.

[Isabellkya]

Well the Cursed said Ord and the Cobbler said innocent. Wasn't entirely sure whether it was a clerical error, or meant to be specific.

[Morsul the Dark]

First post vote followed by "Day one who cares?" then a bit of the Tweedles poem.

++WintyWinty

[Nogrod]

(~~~) *grin emerging*

My tea-time is coming to an end as well as I have a tough morning tomorrow. So a few thoughts, a list-like thingy, a vote and to sleep...

I don't think that "seen as an ordo" or "seen as an innocent" is anything more than just two different phrases to say the same thing. Otherwise it would be pointless to make that distinction as either one would then be clear to the seer and WilwAlirin could have just told us so.

I'm also a bit uneasy about this quite rapid lynching-queue that emerged for Lottie. It's not that I think her particularly innocent (vice versa) but the easiness by which it just came about... Needs to look at it.

Someone (Agan?) compared the retrackies to the phantom's game where people had 10 extra-votes and how the wolves kept them and in the end ran over the innocents with their pile of votes. I don't think that is a good comparison. A retraction is a good idea when you are not sure you can be back before the DL and need to vote just to be sure you vote - and then you suddenly are able to come back and major things have happened meanwhile. I don't like retractions everyDay or any unlimited retrackies, but one for the whole game is quite good: it serves the possible need and doesn't give too much leeway for the wolves to play tactics with them. But well, anybody's decision.

Originally Posted by Agan

Hey Nog you posted the same post twice.

Yeah. I saw it and deleted the other one.

Heh, I can see there is a new fashion in town, getting rid of the retrackies... how nice.

(~~~) *grin vanishing*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I'm also a bit uneasy about this quite rapid lynching-queue that emerged for Lottie. It's not that I think her particularly innocent (vice versa) but the easiness by which it just came about... Needs to look at it.

It makes me also uneasy now given how smoothly it goes and how so many people are going for it, however, it's the first time I am actually suspecting Lottie in a game (as my primary suspect), which I think didn't happen this far... so I am just going to go with that too and hope that the queue is a result of the fact that she really is suspicious. I'd like to hope that in the worst case, she's "only" a Cobbler.

A few more minutes... and probably voting and going to sleep.

EDIT: x-ed with Glirdy, Sally and Catnod.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Thiiiis vote on Lottie bothers me. Partiiiiiially because it seems like we lynch her first a lot, and partiiiially because the reasoning on the bandwagon isn't superb.

Right now I think Morsul is the most suspicious for his comment about wanting everyone to use up their retractions, but keeping his own.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Thiiiis vote on Lottie bothers me. Partiiiiiially because it seems like we lynch her first a lot, and partiiiially because the reasoning on the bandwagon isn't superb.

Right now I think Morsul is the most suspicious for his comment about wanting everyone to use up their retractions, but keeping his own.

Agreed. (Wow. We really are all mad here.) I think Lottie's suspicious, but I get sick of Day One lynching her.

And definitely agreed on Morsul. Hypocrites should always be the first to go. *nods sagely, head droops, starts to snore*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Imagine some innocents, a couple of wolves. The innocents have used (most of) their retractions, the wolves haven't. The wolves can vote for whomever is the most convenient for them and then, when most other votes have been given, unite and direct their votes towards an innocent who is lynched, and nobody else can do anything. Because I can see that scenario, I'd rather eliminate it before the wolves have even a chance to try it.

Well... one thing to say however is that if they do it at any early date, they will expose themselves and consequently get lynched for that. So it's not really as easily misuseable.

Mmh yeah but the wolves have the advantage of being able to talk in private. That way they can make plans about using the votes, among other things, whereas whatever we others say, the wolves see it too.

The Shiriffs can talk too, when we are speaking of it. Which is a positive thing here.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Right now I think Morsul is the most suspicious for his comment about wanting everyone to use up their retractions, but keeping his own.

Well, didn't he just say "you can use your votes all you want, but I am not using mine"? There's no hypocrisy in that, only a difference in opinion... or that's what I thought.

Anyway...

++Lottie

Good night.

[Nogrod]

(~~~) *grin emerging*

Originally Posted by Inzil

The whole thing wasn't really about ww at all. I was agreeing with Nerwen that his vote ought to be looked at, and disagreeing with Agan's wariness of Nerwen for doing just that. You're grasping at straws, mate.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

*sigh* Now I suppose we have to decide whether this is innocent or guilty-looking. Would a wolfywolfy's* packmates have shown him the ropes on Night One, and told him not to do this? Or would they have left him in the dark in the hope that he'd look like a confused innocent? Or is he, in fact, innocent? You know, the usual.

Anyway, Mr Tweedledum, let me tell you that voting completely randomly is not well thought of, even on Day One.

So something to scrutinise, eh? And really, it's of no importance whether it was "about ww" or not. Maybe I just didn't manage to make myself clear then anyway...

Well, this seems to be running out of proportion anyway. And remember being suspected and defending oneself is not only a fight against the gallows, but also a chance to make others to trust you more. Before I posted my remarks on you the first time I couldn't say anything about you Inzil, but now I can. Well I have a picture - which is far from definitive or anything - but it is a picture of sorts rather than just a blank canvas.

(~~~) *grin vanishing*

[satansaloser2005]

A note:

I've a friend that's ill and am organizing a bit of "yay let's make the poor girl feel better" stuff. That said, I may or may not be going to a meeting in a couple hours (no, really, I haven't decided if I'm going yet or not) so I may not be around much. I'm working on analyzing the votes between all the other stuff but I don't seem to be able to multitask worth a muffin (<3) today so I'm a bit slow.

[Isabellkya]

I for one, will not be throwing away my retraction. As I can imagine I'm in the same boat as perhaps Morsul, if I am understanding him correctly.

There have been a few times where I've debated over my vote, then when I posted it. I ended up cross-posting with others whom decided to vote for the same person. Then I got a feeling of wolves jumping ont he wagon, and wanted to retract it. The most recent time I can think of.. was I believe Nerwen wolf.. and Loslote was the lynchee.

I dislike Legate's vote for Loslote. He mentioned how he was uneasy with how the wagon and votes against her formed.. yet stated she was still his primary suspect. I would think the unease would have more of an effect on your voting choice.. it doesn't seem like it mattered. Perhaps you said it, just to say it.

[Morsul the Dark]

Had this argument last time maybe I should do this "so and so "FEELS" off" somehow acceptable me seeing something I find odd and pointing it out that's weird?

Anywho... No one pops out want to vote agan... but won't because That Would be knee jerk... I do have to vote soon though

(Responding to post 80 forgot to quote it.)

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Darling, I already explained it.

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

++ Lottie


EDIT: eek x-ed since Boro

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

++ Lottie


EDIT: eek x-ed since Boro

Sorry, dear, but could you clarify this? Do you mean you have any valid points on her or that she's the only one with valid points? I'm not sure what you mean.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Sorry, dear, but could you clarify this? Do you mean you have any valid points on her or that she's the only one with valid points? I'm not sure what you mean.

She went to sleep, but I think it's pretty obvious Greenie meant Lottie was the only one she had any valid points on. At least her earlier posts suggest it.

[Aganzir]

Fea - Lottie
winty - Brinn
Lommy - Lottie
Boro - Glirdy
Green - Lottie
Morsul - winty
Agan - Mira

Lottie-3, Mira-1, winty-1, Glirdy-1, Brinn-1

Retraction left: everybody but Agan & sally

I think we really should keep track on who has used their retraction and who hasn't, and that everyone should use them asap, because as I've said they are more useful to the wolves than to us.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

[
I think we really should keep track on who has used their retraction and who hasn't, and that everyone should use them asap, because as I've said they are more useful to the wolves than to us.

Okay, I'm not accusing you of anything, sweetheart, but a retractable vote is useful for anyone, is it not? I certainly can see how wolves could use retractions to great advantage late in the game but why the haste?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

She went to sleep, but I think it's pretty obvious Greenie meant Lottie was the only one she had any valid points on. At least her earlier posts suggest it.

K cool, thanks. I thought that's what she meant, but my brain is a bit....askew today and I didn't want to misunderstand. Thanks for the help! ^_^

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, and I love retractable votes, but I'll just drive myself mad if I have a free pass to mindchanging sitting around. With that....

++Sally

--Sally


I'm analyzing the votes so far, but please be patient, as I'm really scatterbrained today. That and....well, a nap sounds lovely....and Boro's shoulder is so comfy....

[Morsul the Dark]

Let's all use our retractable votes so if a wold happens to trick us we're done. With my track record I'm saving mine

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Let's all use our retractable votes so if a wold happens to trick us we're done. With my track record I'm saving mine

Ah, yes, do tell us all your evil plans. Tell us now!

*waits with baited....yes, I actually mean baited....breath*

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Let's all use our retractable votes so if a wold happens to trick us we're done. With my track record I'm saving mine

Whoops. On first glance this looked like Morsul was advocating getting rid of our retractions. Didn't catch the sarcasm, my bad.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Why I find that suspicious then? If you were an innocent and thought there was something to scrutinise there, then you would have given it a thought - and even a slight thought would have told you immediately there wasn't. So can we infer that you actually didn't care? If you don't care to think about it that little as to see there's nothing to speculate there, then it would look like you are not caring about it. But still you wish to say that aloud, that "his vote should be scrutinised", which makes me think you were more concentrated on thinking how to make yourself look concerned than being actually concerned about the possibility of learning whether winty-w is good or bad (like if you knew it already or something?) - and just didn't realised that what you suggested might look good but when looked at more closely turns out ridiculous for anyone who is actually interested in on what side winty-w is...

The whole thing wasn't really about ww at all. I was agreeing with Nerwen that his vote ought to be looked at, and disagreeing with Agan's wariness of Nerwen for doing just that. You're grasping at straws, mate.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey Nog you posted the same post twice.


Sorry but would you care to speak English that's understandable even to a non-native speaker so I don't have to spend a twice longer time reading your post than I would need for anyone else?

As you might have noticed I didn't play in last game. And it's perfectly alright to point out what you find odd, but your thought process in the post I found suspicious seemed half-hearted and lazy and somehow far-fetched too (the part that Lommy or someone else pointed out). Give better reasons for your suspicions and I might change my mind about you.

But yeah as for now

++Mirandir

because thus far she seems the most suspicious to me.

oh and

--Mirandir
++Mirandi

as I dislike retrackies anyway, and this is what I think everyone should do because otherwise the wolves will probably use them against us in the end.

Why is Mira the most suspicious to you, my dear? Possibly you said so already and I just missed it.
Anyway, I agree that wolves can make good use of a retractable vote, but so can the good side. What happens if one votes early, then has to contend with a Seer reveal, or something of that nature toward the end of the Day? Being able to retract comes in handy then. So I'm not retracting unless I see a need for it.

Also, I think I agree with the Boropillar that this push against Lottie looks bad.

x/d with all since # 91

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Like "and where might you know that from, Nightly talks perchance?" although you probably have another explanation for that... or do you? (Only a totally stupid Wolf would, however, do that. Which makes me think that, if this does not have any logical explanation, you might be a Cobbler wanting us to think you are a Wolf and knowing it - thus making a blind shot - which would be funnily underlined now if WW said "I am a she", nah but whatever, I assume this is useless speculation as you probably have an explanation.)

I know him in RL, dear.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I seem to recall seeing her post on Facebook, trying to convince TGEW to join and telling that if she did three Alaskans would be playing... so I assume that's the explanation.

Yup.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

[*highlight]++ Lottie[/highlight*]

EDIT: eek x-ed since Boro

Okay. Seriously? I think we need to stop lynched Little Lottie Day 1 every game.

~~~

Sally's in a teacup,
Little Dormouse.
What are you hiding?
Does Glirdy know?
If we go to lynch you,
What will we find?
Ordo, wolfie, or special kind?
Ordo, wolfie, or special kind?

^no, really, I want to know. I think you're looking rather evil, but...

EDIT: xed with peoples and will be leaving until about an hour before dl.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Someone (Agan?) compared the retrackies to the phantom's game where people had 10 extra-votes and how the wolves kept them and in the end ran over the innocents with their pile of votes.

Imagine some innocents, a couple of wolves. The innocents have used (most of) their retractions, the wolves haven't. The wolves can vote for whomever is the most convenient for them and then, when most other votes have been given, unite and direct their votes towards an innocent who is lynched, and nobody else can do anything. Because I can see that scenario, I'd rather eliminate it before the wolves have even a chance to try it.

Originally Posted by skip spence

Okay, I'm not accusing you of anything, sweetheart, but a retractable vote is useful for anyone, is it not?

Mmh yeah but the wolves have the advantage of being able to talk in private. That way they can make plans about using the votes, among other things, whereas whatever we others say, the wolves see it too. And the wolves are fine with killing anybody but one of them, while it's not quite so simple for us. So even if the retractable votes might be useful for us, we can't really base our plans on them...

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Why is Mira the most suspicious to you, my dear? Possibly you said so already and I just missed it.

Originally Posted by me

Mira. Suspecting newbies is just way too easy, and at the same time she clears Fea's vote (despite the 'on a more serious note' start, the whole comment looked like a joke though).

Mostly because of this comment though:

Originally Posted by Mira

wintywinty's vote is more suspicious. I do agree with whoever suggested it might be of a wolfish nature and xe was told to act newbieish to allay suspicion. Or it could be a newbie mistake.

Basically, "It's suspicious because it could go either way."

Originally Posted by Inzil

Anyway, I agree that wolves can make good use of a retractable vote, but so can the good side. What happens if one votes early, then has to contend with a Seer reveal, or something of that nature toward the end of the Day?

Might happen. However it's always best for the seer to not reveal during the last-minute voting frenzy.
Also, retractable votes and the 'who receives the highest number of votes last' rule are a bad combination in the case of a tie because if a wolf (or somebody else) wants to drive a lynch, they wait till the last possible moment, retract and vote again.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

*concurs* I kept thinking there was a new player but then looked to the side and saw it was you...

Haha sorry. On one hand I'm sorry to let go of my previous avvie (a Goya painting ♥) but on the other hand... Scar is Scar, and worth another ♥.

Okay I'll go to sleep now, night babies.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

Aww, think it's an easy lynch, but still go for it because cant think of anything else? Sad story. I still call it hogwash haug-hwassssh and wolves hwol-vee-ss like their hogs I hear. (Question: do they like they're hogs washed too? )

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

*falls from horse*

Did the rules say we have to play mad instead of just having a WW game in a mad setting? Seriously, this is one of the oddest Day 1 beginnings I have ever seen. I dislike the votes so far, though that isn't to say anything on whether they are necessarily signs of wolvery or not.

My contribution toDay will be pretty much horrible - this is the worst possible day for me to be playing Werewolf - but I promise to be much more active in the Days to come! I've got to dash, but I'll return later. Try to be sensible, meanwhile. (It's easy for me to say, of course, given that I won't be around for most of toDay.. )

First post. Doesn't like the early votes from Fea and ww. Explains she wouldn't be around much.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

*falls from horse*
Back again! I'm feeling slightly hyper right now, so don't be annoyed if I'm not making much sense.. But here come some impressions of toDay.
I don't see Winty's vote as suspicious - nor innocent-looking, for that matter - it just is. Meaning that s/he (which is it, by the way?) could have done that just as well as a wolf as an innocent, and thus drawing conclusions on that seems weird to me. But then, everything here is weird.

Agan is lovely and provides a lot of substance (I'd raise my hat if I had one, unfortunately I only wear a helmet), I don't suspect her - but then, I always suspect her when she's innocent, so maybe she's a wolf now. Gah, I'm flip-flopping. Family vice. Sorry.

Lottie's analysis post was interesting, but I found the "gut feeling"-thing slightly eyebrow-raising. The so-called gut feelings were mostly reasoned points, so why call them gut feelings? It just struck me that calling a point a mere gut feeling kind of lessens the responsibility over it - one can, later, claim it was just a gut feeling, not my fault that we lynched an innocent, whoops.

Lommy is acting purposefully mysterious which strikes me as weird - she's having this manner of "I know something you others don't, let's see if I care to share it!" I don't quite know what to make of it, it's not usual her but then I'm not sure if it's necessarily suspicious either.

Okay, enough ranting, I don't remember if I had something to say about someone else still, so I'll let Lommy post and go to sleep and then do the same myself. Back soon babes!

Doesn't think much can be read into ww's vote. A small list of impressions of three people. Doesn't care for Lottie calling her points against people 'gut feelings', and it would seem this was the basis for her suspicion of Lottie.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

highlight]++ Lottie[/highlight]

Votes Lottie, which, since it followed that insane vote for her from Fea, looked strange to me. I thought she was getting in on a bandwagon, but I was willing to give her a pass because of her RL busy day.

[Morsul the Dark]

Hmm I spent a Lot of time looking at Greenie because she garnerred so much suspicion.... Square One... Dang

[Nienna]

This seer-death of Greenie does not look good for Nog. I think he bears a much closer look today.

[Morsul the Dark]

Moving away from Greenie for the moment...


I was shocked by the pick if I do say so myself not to toot my own horn I was sure I was going to be the victem to days in a row with the right vote... That NEVER happens for me(I'm excited) keep it alive folks!

I'm looking into Agan this is going to be a looong loong post coming up... sorry

[Morsul the Dark]

... It really couldn't be as easy as this... Am I the only one noticing both ourwolves are Tea Party guests?... Mira's the last of the party... it couldn't be that easy though.

This post is pretty much joking

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Greenie was the Seer?!

I must have spent an hour earlier today putting all my points against her into one big case, and see where it gets me.

Before I go look back at her posts (again) myself, I would like to make one point that has nothing to do with Greenie:

Even though Glirdan turned out to be a wolf, he was still pretty easily the choice for lynch the entire day, making him the "easy lynch", so I really don't like Nog's insistence that multiple people were "voting the easy lynches" when he himself voted for Glirdan. Really don't.

Now, off to look at Greenie's posts in a different light.

[Loslote]

Removed smilies.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

*falls from horse*

Did the rules say we have to play mad instead of just having a WW game in a mad setting? Seriously, this is one of the oddest Day 1 beginnings I have ever seen. I dislike the votes so far, though that isn't to say anything on whether they are necessarily signs of wolvery or not.

My contribution toDay will be pretty much horrible - this is the worst possible day for me to be playing Werewolf - but I promise to be much more active in the Days to come! I've got to dash, but I'll return later. Try to be sensible, meanwhile. (It's easy for me to say, of course, given that I won't be around for most of toDay.. )

Complains a bit (understandably) about the insanity so far.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

*falls from horse*
Back again! I'm feeling slightly hyper right now, so don't be annoyed if I'm not making much sense.. But here come some impressions of toDay.
I don't see Winty's vote as suspicious - nor innocent-looking, for that matter - it just is. Meaning that s/he (which is it, by the way?) could have done that just as well as a wolf as an innocent, and thus drawing conclusions on that seems weird to me. But then, everything here is weird.

Agan is lovely and provides a lot of substance (I'd raise my hat if I had one, unfortunately I only wear a helmet), I don't suspect her - but then, I always suspect her when she's innocent, so maybe she's a wolf now. Gah, I'm flip-flopping. Family vice. Sorry.

Lottie's analysis post was interesting, but I found the "gut feeling"-thing slightly eyebrow-raising. The so-called gut feelings were mostly reasoned points, so why call them gut feelings? It just struck me that calling a point a mere gut feeling kind of lessens the responsibility over it - one can, later, claim it was just a gut feeling, not my fault that we lynched an innocent, whoops.

Lommy is acting purposefully mysterious which strikes me as weird - she's having this manner of "I know something you others don't, let's see if I care to share it!" I don't quite know what to make of it, it's not usual her but then I'm not sure if it's necessarily suspicious either.

Okay, enough ranting, I don't remember if I had something to say about someone else still, so I'll let Lommy post and go to sleep and then do the same myself. Back soon babes!

Gives her impressions on people. If her Night 1 dream is among them, I'd guess it was Agan...but I don't think she mentioned her dream here.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. Sorry. My concentration is poor today.

I know this reasoning is outrageously bad, but I'll tell it anyway because it's what I'm thinking: I'm kind of afraid that Lottie will become this typical Day 1 easy lynch (ordo), but then again, she's the only one I have any valid point at all, so

[*highlight]++ Lottie[/highlight*]


EDIT: eek x-ed since Boro

Votes me...and I think we can assume this means she dreamt an innocent first Night.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Phew. Here at last, been running all day and now it's getting late again. I so wish the Day and Night phases were the other way round... So if I seem to be over-reacting (I fear I am) it's because I'm tired. This will be a mostly self-defensive post. The next one will include something rather more relevant to the game, I hope.
Seriously, I know being annoyed won't exactly help a thing, but I can't but be a tad annoyed. What, exactly, are your reasons for suspecting me? I suspected you yesterDay and happened to get the internet after Lommy (we're using the same one) so I voted you only after some others had done that already. That, I suppose, made my vote bandwaggonish. I had a reason to suspect you, I didn't have reason to suspect anyone else, so I voted you. Simple as that. And I think I had voiced my suspicion of you before the bandwagon against you had even started, so you can't claim my vote was just jumping on the bandwagon. As for the apologetic tone of my vote post, I was being honest. It did pop into my mind that I might be pursuing what would turn out a typical Day 1 easy lynch. I made the mistake of saying it aloud – if I had just played more confident than I was no one would have made such a fuss about my vote. Give me better arguments, please.
Not quite! Outrageously bad phrasing, more like. The outrageously bad had to do with that I was kind of worried about a typical easy Day 1 lynch, but still wanted to vote for Lottie who I suspected. My reasons for voting Lottie, while not all that great, were still substantial by Day 1 standards.

EDIT: eurgh x-ed with a horse (hehe what a typo, was supposed to write 'horde' )

Defends herself; doesn't say anything that could be taken as a dream.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Yeah. I was referring to the reasoning that I'm afraid of a typical Day 1 easy lynch but still vote for you. My actual reasoning for suspecting you wasn't outrageously bad. If I still can't make this understood, I suppose I must blame being a non-native speaker for not being able to explain myself.
You did miss something. It was that she called every point she had a gut-feeling, also those that were actual reasoned points and not gut-feelings - which struck me as horribly fishy. But really, discussing this is not fruitful as far as I can see.

Now to write some actual substance. I'm sick of talking about myself.

Defends herself again.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Okay, but why were you pretty confident about her?
Yes, I think we can rather safely assume that Lottie has the village's best interests at heart. But she is not the seer. She doesn't know anybody's role and can be as wrong as any of us.

Eurgh I had some other quotes I wanted to comment on but it seems I've lost them. Off to write a list and then vote. I'll probably be suspected for voting out of the blue this time () because I don't have much of an idea until I've looked at the list of villagers and considered each one in turn.

EDIT: x-ed with Glirdy and Lottie

But she is not the seer...okay, in hindsight, lol. XD Anyway...she responds to Nienna, but I don't think she knew what Nienna's role was at the time.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Ok, great. Really, I'm sorry if I've sounded cross, I'm just very very tired and it's very very late and I've been up since rather early morning.

Responding to me; not much seer-ness there.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Glirdan – Hmm. I have no read on him myself, others have brought up good points against him, though, but I'd have to investigate myself to form an opinion.

Nogrod – Usually, at this point of the game, I'm convinced he's a wolf. This far I guess he's never been one when we've played together. So now I'm wondering if I should get worried as I've found no reason to suspect him...

Wintywinty – Too little to go on with.

Isabellkya – From what I remember of her she's been making sense and passing unnoticed. I have no reason to suspect her, but she alarms me a little because of being so smooth and sensible.

Mira – Feels innocent though I disagree with her a lot.

Sally – Her behaviour yesterDay around the voting, concerning Lottie, was weird. Other than that, she's been the usual hard-to-read Sally.

Agan – Seems genuine and makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying she's innocent - I know how capable she is of fooling me - but I won't be voting her without a good reason.

Inzil – No effing idea.

Shasta – The reasoning for his vote was rather bad, could be even wolvish - I was a little (green) suspected at that point I think but not much, so voting for me would have been rather ideal: not rubbing people the wrong way, yet not bandwaggoning either. Otherwise he has flown under my radar.

Lottie – I believe her claim though I disagree with her about almost everything.

Nerwen – No idea.

Legate – Seems innocentish this far.

Morsul – No idea.

Nienna – Hmm. Not sure. At times she feels very genuine, at others she feels like a sneaky wolf. Can't say which she is.

Skip – Seems maybe the most innocentish at this point (discounting Lottie and myself, of course), makes sense and feels genuine.

Lommy – Has dropped the mysterious attitude and feels more or less like her innocent self.

Brinniel – I'm leaning towards thinking her innocent. Her reactions seem genuine to me.


EDIT: x-ed since my last

List! Here we go (dream-wise). She says Skip "seems maybe the most innocentish at this point". This makes me inclined to think that she might have dreamed him...but not for sure. It also looks likely that she dreamt innocent!Agan - "I won't be voting her without a good reason." She also could have dreamed innocent!Mira, innocent!Lommy, innocent!Brinn, or innocent!Legate. She says they all seem innocent at this point, and I'm pretty sure she'd dreamed of innocent people.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I sincerely hope that you will not succeed in your attempt. Talking about getting people lynched, I'd be interested to know who people are going to vote. I want to go to bed as soon as possible, but I'd like to hear some more opinions before voting..

EDIT: x-ed with Noggy, Winty & Glirdy

Asks for ideas of who people are going to vote.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Eurgh. I'm starting to see why Glirdy is suspected. I didn't like that long post of his at all. Or, it was long, but it included mainly suspicion on one of the village's top suspects and confirming innocent a person everyone's been considering innocent pretty much all Day. He could be an innocent who just suspects the same person as everyone else, but I didn't like the tone of that post.

She says she's beginning to suspect Glirdy. Now, this may be wishful thinking, but I don't think she'd dreamt him at this point.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Right. I'm too tired to look up your vote post so correct me if I'm straying, but I believe you voted me because my vote seemed bandwaggonish. I think I've said enough about that vote already. What struck me as fishy about your vote was not only that it seemed ideally placed for a wolf, but also that voting someone for a bandwaggonish vote is about as easy a reason for a vote one can come up with, one that is seldom questioned though rather flimsy.

I was about to vote for you, but your latest post made me wonder if I should after all, it seemed somewhat genuine and sensible.


EDIT: x-ed with Shasta and Sally

Hmm. Says she supects Shasta but that the last post seemed innocent. I doubt if she'd dreamt him yet.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

My usual bed time was approximately four hours ago.

[*highlight]++ Shasta[/highlight*]

I'll explain more fully toMorrow, if required. Good night.

Votes Shasta with a promise for further explanation later.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

First, some comments on toDay. I'm not sure how much weight we can give to Sally's last words about Glirdy being a wolf. To me, at least, she seemed rather more like a wolf who knows she's going to die trying to make a mess before she goes. Looked at in that way, I don't think we should jump into conclusions based on anything she said - regardless of whether they are conclusions for or against Glirdy's guilt.

I think you are a bit off in this argument. At least as far as my werewolf-experience goes, few wolves actually put all their fellows in the "no opinion" -category - or any same category, for that matter. A wolf is almost always a tad paranoid, and wold prefer to avoid cramming all his fellows under the same heading just so as not to make all their names appear together. Besides, a bit of wolf-on-wolf suspicion - or even open wolf-on-wolf fraternizing - is actually safer for a wolf than just carefully not saying anything about one's fellows. And, in addition to that, I've never seen an Aganwolf not pulling off any kind of wolf-on-wolf thing.

Moving on to yesterDay next... (I also have a gigantic - well, sort of - post coming, I checked people's attitudes to Sally from the two previous Days!)

Doesn't think we can give much weight to Sally's Glirdy lynch drive, so probably didn't dream him. Also doesn't suspect Agan...I think maybe she did dream of Agan; she's been very solid in her support.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I thought I had already given one, and meant that if elaboration on it was required I would do that later. Basically, I voted for you because your vote from Day 1 looked strategically clean (voting for someone that has been somewhat suspected but hasn't gained any votes that far - not causing discord or attracting attention nor yet getting accused of bandwaggoning).
I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Could you explain what you mean by this?
That, I think, is a very dangerous path to take (wow, doesn't that sound epic!) because knowing that Lottie has our best interests at heart isn't saying anything about how accurate her suspicions are. Throughout WW history there have been innocents who bark at the wrong tree for an entire game though they have the village's best interests at heart.
I don't like this one, either. A wolf can very well make great contributions - a Nerwolf certainly can - and off-handedly dismissing the possibility makes it seem like you are grasping at straws to suspect whoever it was who talked about the great contributions. (I've lost the spot where I found this quote, should check that, probably...)

Now, off to write my Sally-post..

Elaborated on her Shasta-vote, but doesn't come down too hard on him, so she probably didn't dream him. Also doesn't like Zil's reasoning.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Explain myself about what? I'm confused. The quotes from yesterDay I picked during the Night phase when I was reading what happened after I went to sleep, I saved them on a Word file and of course wasn't bright enough to note who Inzil responded to.

Not much there.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Okay, here comes my massive Sally-post - being a quick analysis on people's reactions to Sally. This post doesn't include everything that has been said about Sally (no banter posts & no posts that give no actual information).

Nogrod

Carefully voices some suspicion on her yet flip-flops nicely. The three dots in the end creep me out, like the ”I never get her” in the beginning. He's kind of – how to say it – decisively undecisive. Looks rather wolf-on-wolf, though could be genuine.

Could go either way, really.


I don't like the look of this. Looks like an opportunistic wolf-on-wolf vote.

Nienna
Sally - I can usually read her pretty well and I'm not getting alarm bells yet... but we shall see (Nienna)
I'm not all that fond of the ”we shall see” in the end – it looks like trying not to look too positive about a fellow's innocence.


Makes me feel a bit better about Nienna. If I recall correctly, this was in a post of its own – and though not unheard of, bringing up a new point against a fellow in a one-liner post doesn't strike me as wolf-on-wolf suspicion.


I could see a Niennawolf behind this post, accusing Morsul after that first paragraph that could be interpreted as herself doing the exact same thing she blames Morsul of. But then again, I agree with her about Morsul and her tone still strikes me as genuine. (A sidenote: if Nienna and Morsul are fellows I'm going to eat my hat.)


Still innocentish tone.

Glirdan
Gah. The ”...yet” in the end looks again like trying not to sound too positive about a fellow's innocence.


Could well be a wolf turning against a fellow: he seems rather ready to jump on Sally after it's become clear that she's the clear main suspect of the Day. Could also be an innocent Glirdan trying to save his own skin by making a show of suspecting Sally – regardless of whether he actually did or not.
The same as the previous one, but to a greater extent.

Still looks like he's decided to suspect her. Could be wolf-on-wolf, could be desperate innocent-on-wolf.

Aganzir
A sensible point, could well have been by an innocent Agan, but the phrasing of the underlined part struck me as slightly fishy – it's too careful (maybe, a bit), not much like Agan's usual provocative style.


This, in turn, looks okay.

Could well be a wolf assuring that the death of a fellow would be okay while not enforcing the suspicion on her.

This strikes me as genuine innocent reasoning, though. Agan is driving me mad.

Legate
A long rant the point of which was mainly that he'll be keeping an eye on her. Makes me think a wolvish Leggy wouldn't have ranted such lengths about a fellow.

I don't like the ”But whatever...” in the end – looks like he's suspecting Sally and then dismissing it.
Could go either way, really.
This doesn't strike me as wolf-on-wolf reasoning at all.
Could be a furry Legate deciding that Sally is a lost case anyway. I'm leaning innocent on this quote, too, though. The tone is more like an innocent Legate deciding to ”see how things go”.

Lommy
This seems genuine enough.

Eurgh, could go either way – I'm leaning towards thinking this looks innocentish, but can't say.

Could be a Lommywolf flip-flopping on whether or not Sally's situation looks hopeless enough to justify a wolf-on-wolf vote.

Morsul
I'm not sure what to make of this. The underlined part sounds really as if he didn't particularly care about who his vote goes to. Normally that kind of behaviour points to a wolf, but on the other hand, a wolf would care about a fellow getting or not getting lynched. It wouldn't be all the same for a wolf whether his fellow is lynched or not, even if that wolf actually voted for that fellow. But then, this post could just as well be an opportunistic wolf voting for a doomed fellow without bothering to come up with arguments to back it up.

Super-confusing. I have no idea what to think about this. At all. Maybe leaning innocent – I don't think a furry Morsul would say this.

Nerwen
Not too fond of the tone of this one. If Sally had been innocent, I'd say this is awfully wolvish. With Sally being a wolf, I'm mainly confused.

Inzil
I don't like how Inzil takes one villager's list of suspects and picks his main suspect from there – the said main suspect being that of most of the village. Wolf-on-wolf? I could see it there, but not necessarily.

Winty

Really, this could go either way. Unless Glirdy was a wolf too, this wouldn't make sense as a wolfywolfy's post unless he was well-instructed during the Night or else followed the lead of one of his fellows during the Day. (Who? I might look into that at some point, it might be enlightening..) I'm talking, of course, about a newbie wolf debating on whether to vote for a fellow or an innocent.
Could be again waiting to get supplied with reasons during the Night. Eurgh. Don't know.

Shasta
Shasta defends Sally here, though only in a small matter. First impression: wolf!! Second impression: I'm not sure if a furry Shasta would defend a fellow who's the main suspect of the Day.

Brinn
Reasoned, unlike many of the Sally-suspecters of yesterDay. Doesn't look wolf-on-wolf.

So here we are. Based on this, I'd make the following list:

good:
Nienna
Legate
Winty
Brinn
leaning goood:
Lommy

confusing aargh:
Nerwen
Morsul
Agan

leaning bad:
Shasta
Inzil
bad:
Nogrod
Glirdan

Mira and Skip I had no quotes on - either because they didn't say anything about her at all, I've lost the quotes in my vast sea of quotes, or they didn't say anything about her that wasn't banter. Please, sweeties, fill me in on which is true.


EDIT: x-ed with 2x Lom & Skip, don't have time to read them, gotta dash, see you later, bye!

Actually, she might have dreamed wolf!Nog...it's beginning to look quite bad for him. I think she dreamed either Legate or Agan, though.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm back! First off, it seems I've made a mess again with the Inzil-quote-thing.Ok, that's cleared - I understood great to mean considerable of size/quantity/importance.
Yeah. It was partly that I misunderstood Inzil, partly that I didn't like the way he seemed to imply that making sense and being a wolf can't go together.
A probably irrelevant question: what does TLDR mean?
Ok, thanks, that cleared - though I'm not sure if I buy your point.
A technical point: getting a wolf lynched usually requires a bandwagon. Just saying. Of course, that isn't to say that I approve of Morsul's early, bandwaggonish vote. I don't.

Responding to random things; not much there to guess at dreams from.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'd prefer voting Glirdan or Nogrod toDay. Glirdan's death, as has been mentioned, would shed light to many things, and his interactions with Sally were very fishy. Nogrod's interactions with Sally looked bad too, and I don't like how he's been slipping under pretty much everyone's radar, being nice and invisible yet contributing. I could also vote Shasta or Inzil, but would prefer one of the earlier two.

Would want to vote for Glirdy (a wolf) or Nog (who she might have dreamed). Actually, the Nog-theory looks pretty convincing...which is a bit of a bummer, because I thought he was innocent.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Bed-time! I've been flip-flopping on whether to vote Nog or Glirdy, and decided to go for

[*highlight]++ Nogrod[/highlight*]

Now I'm not sure if this is a throwaway, I suppose one could see it as such, but I just feel I should stir the pot a bit. I find Nogrod very suspicious, he's being too agreeable and nudging things from the background, and his interactions with Sally seemed quite wolf-on-wolf to me.

I won't be disappointed if Glirdy gets lynched. Unless he's an innocent, of course. That said, good night babes!


EDIT: x-ed with leggy-leggy-legz

Okay, it's looking very bad for Nog now, and she does make good points. My guess is (and I'm well aware that this is probably wrong and nothing to base *anything* on) that she dreamed either Agan or Legate, probably Agan, and Skip, and then Nog.

Pre-edit: I'm sure I've xed since Nerwen's first.

[Inziladun]

I was working on Greenie's Day 3, but it looks like Lottie beat me to it, and probably is more concise and sensible anyway.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Would want to vote for Glirdy (a wolf) or Nog (who she might have dreamed). Actually, the Nog-theory looks pretty convincing...which is a bit of a bummer, because I thought he was innocent.

I suspected Greenie for her vote on Nog, because it was so vaguely reasoned, and on someone who was not suspected by anyone else. Curiously, Nog himself disagreed.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But I would say I find Greenie quite innocentish. Her explanations on D1 felt quite honest and true and even if she has managed to fool me big time a few times I still have a gut feeling she's not a baddie. As Lommy said, she tends to suspect me everytime we play so I can't say her suspicion on me was that great a surprise (and actually I can't blame her for voting Shasta either). Also, as I said earlier, she tends to like being the individual-minded, "not going with the flow" player, so I would be more surprised if she started bandwagoning...

That seemed genuine to me at the time, but I suppose it could have been an attempt by a Nogwolf to distance himself from suspecting her. Then again, Nog would have to have known that her being killed after voting him would reflect badly on him. Would he have been unnerved enough by her vote of him to have taken that risk?

x/d with Morsul and Lottie

[Morsul the Dark]

Why'd I say it? because I'm psyched this is the furthest I've ever made it on the winning side in WW I said it more for myself...

[Nerwen]

Now, naturally we have no guarantee Greenie dreamt a wolf at all. However, since she stated suspicion of Nogrod yesterDay, and indeed voted him, and since Nogrod was starting to creep me out towards the end of yesterDay, I think he's worth looking at. Besides, he's been under my radar most of the game.

Nogrod, Day One

#33
Banter; is "uneasy" with Lottie:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

For the Duchess surely goes into that infamous mode of "no bad person, even insane one, would do that kind of a thing" - like screaming "Go wolves!" on D1...

Comments: This post follows Fea's unexplained vote on Lottie– perhaps opportunistic? The mention of Poison Ivy-Nerwolf also seems perhaps a trifle insidious– like it's trying to create guilt-by-association. To be fair, though, the "Arkham Asylum" game must still be fresh in peoples minds, and Nogrod wasn't the only one to claim to find Lottie's songs questionable at this point– Zil and Nienna did too. (Fea, presumeably, didn't.)


#60
Ask for real names to be used; finds a post of Shasta's (not indicated) "unreadable"; says that Agan's comment about the Seer not being 100% reliable (because of the Cursed) is not helpful so early in the game and that she seems overly worried about her image.

–Jumps on Zil for saying wintywinty's vote should be scrutinized, finding it a typically wolfish statement.

–Dismisses Lottie's explanation that she wrote the songs before getting her role:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It's not so much about when you wrote that piece of ambiguity, but what was your role when you decided it was a good way to start posting?

#85
Dismisses Zil's explanation for his use of "scrutiny", elaborates on why it's so suspicious– apparently because the vote cannot in itself reveal ww's role.

Comments: This is complete hair-splitting, and is in fact quite a weird reason to go after someone. As I said yesterDay (or the Day before, I forget) it could be a language-problem– i.e. Nogrod taking things too literally.


#99
Discusses rules and the retraction-issue, is perturbed by Lottie-wagon, though at the same time he does not find her at all innocent-looking.

Comments: Hmmn. Seems like he wants it both ways...


#108
Compares the people voting for Lottie (Fea, Lommy and Greenie at that point) to the retraction-dumpers (Sally and Aganzir), and wonders if it's just herd-mentality or something more.

Comments: Looking for reasons to suspect as many people as possible? Perhaps– mind you, both of those affairs were worth commenting on. He does exaggerate, saying "a band" of people had used their retrackies when only two had.


#115
Quotes Inzil's latest defence, but appears not to accept it... though he also says the affair is "running out of proportion". Says he now has an opinion on Zil, but does not state it.

Comments: Uh... *scratches head* Really, I don't know what to make of that post at all. What is he trying to say?


#119. Tells Skip how to highlight votes.


#128
Suspicion list. With the exception of Izzy (trusted) and Skip ("making a lot of sense") is non-committal about everyone. Now also concerned about the save-Lottie-wagon.

Comments: Okaay. This post is quite wolfy-looking– Nog's at pains to leave himself room either to suspect or not suspect virtually the entire village. Yes, it was Day One, but still...


#137
Suggests Fea and Lottie may be a cobbler and wolf testing each other out. Votes Fea (Fea 2), because though he suspects them both, he suspects her more.

Comments: *shrugs* Perfectly reasonable vote-post. Nothing to say about it.

General Remarks: Well, while #128 is the only single post I'd call definitely furry-looking, from Nog's overall Day One posting I shouldn't be that *surprised* if he turns out a wolf. I won't put it stronger than that– later Days may give a different picture. Also, I haven't yet looked at what the known wolves said about him– as I recall, not much.

I have to go now, but when I come back I'll look at Nogrod on Days 2 and 3 and at Sallywolf and Glirwolf's relations with him, if no-one has in the meantime.

EDIT:X'd with a host.

[Loslote]

One more thing I just realized with Morsul:

He keeps proclaiming that he's successfully voted for two wolves in two consecutive Days. Okay. That's lovely.

How, exactly, would you know who to vote? You don't post anything to tell us. We are left to assume you know this because you are part of the pack. So maybe you don't want to emphasize that quite as much as you are. Just sayin'.