T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

Ok. Enough of that. What else to talk about? I think you all are still neutral suspicionwise.

That is very suspicious.

[Isabellkya]

Ah, but! The last game saw a wolf joke about Apples all game long - Nerwen! Wilwa was her partner in crime!


I think it a fair conclusion that joking about being evil on Day one, should net you a lynching! Especially if you were a nefarious creature in the previous game, and were partnered with a wolf whom joked about being evil all game long....

xD

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First, thumbs up for the War Pigs cover to TEW. If every new player introduced him/herself like this, it would certainly help me distinguish them better from the gray mass

Secondly, though, however nice the joking's been here this far, I am dreading the moment when Nogrod comes and lynches you all. That's just to say the general warning...

Thirdly, well, what else. I should also say that I am not sure how much I am going to be around toDay, as I will have Lommy around here, and even though it's possible we may be able to post each from our own computers, not sure if we will post *that* much. If it stays this way, however, I am not worried about missing too many important posts (although of course at least some posts to the topic would be appreciated, although there's still some Daylight left).

Speaking of that, I think there will be of course a LOT more to deal with toMorrow, given the amount of kills that can happen - and "special effects" on top of that. The point is, of course, that very well half of us might not be here anymore by toMorrow.

Thinking whether there is anything more clever to say in general - well, since I think I understand the rules now that I have re-read them, there's probably not anything more... maybe just, I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos? I think that's pretty powerful tool in that case, and I guess there can be also pretty creative use for that, but most of all, I hope it will provide the balance needed.

Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves? It looks at least sinister, and that's why I am looking up to the revivals as tools of balance (although they, by themselves, need some people to die first - one of them a Wolf. Also, am I right, if a Unicorn dies on the first Day, the ability's wasted?).

[Morsul the Dark]

Going to work soon just popping in.

Preliminary look at everyone who's posted

The Elf Warrior... chatter chatter chatter.... Day 1 early on not suspicious (Just noticed his analysis post however has a song as well as Wilwa... evilish

Wilwa.... The lovely talented song writer...apparently... Songs always make me suspicious they always say "Look I'm fun keep me around" to me. evilish

Shasta... Some people post 'In-Character' Shasta posted as someone else entirely... Not liking that.

Inzil: Nothing to report on his one post.

Nerwen: To many times she slips under everyone's radar especially mine... I'll be watching you.

Sally: I give up. You're crazy random and ridiculous. I'm watching you too. I know your M.O. so I'll have at least an idea what to watch for.

Isabella: Throwing up a call for lynch in your first post is highly strange. You can pass it off as a joke later but I have a feeling we'll see you try to build a sturdy case against her. just laying the ground work for an innocent's death? Or are you a gifted with knowledge we don't have?

[Thinlómien]

Hi there people. Feels good to be back to ww. *grin* *stretches*

I'm still not entirely familiar with the rules, I confess, but as Legate said, the situation will start to make more sense toMorrow probably as then we will have seen the actions of one Night.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Inzy was a trial one for Inziladun's.. but I think Dun is the most popular one as of late I would say.

Although he is also called Zil or Inzil, don't forget that.

Originally Posted by Legate

maybe just, I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos? I think that's pretty powerful tool in that case, and I guess there can be also pretty creative use for that, but most of all, I hope it will provide the balance needed.

I think also gifted can be revived but they'll just return as ordos... a revived seer would be quite an advantage for us! And in any case, the Unicorns are a way for us to get a few known innocents. But in any case the Unicorns need to die in order to revive somebody and they can both only die once (and the WereUnicorn will probably be rather unwilling to die I'd assume), so I wouldn't count too much on them.

In any case, this will be quite a game - lots of kills, revivals and ranger saves. *shrugs* It'll be confusing but hopefully fun! I still have to echo Legate's slight concern on the amount of evil people around. There's only 14 of us and 6 are wolves and 3 have loverish interests. So, as obvious as this kind of advice may sound, you should trust people even less than in an ordinary game.

I'm also trying to resettle my brain for the presence of two wolf packs. It's not that there can be wolves in different teams, but it's more like my personal sense of justice being insulted by the fact that the innocents' chance to win is 1/3 instead of 1/2. It does seem unfair, especially as we can't slaughter anybody at Night. I had issues with this already in Sauce's game years ago, if somebody remembers, so maybe I should just shut up and get used to it...

(But btw this means I will totally start screaming if somebody random votes, even on Day1. Seriously. We can't just waste votes in this game.)

My thoughts on people this far -

EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say. I'd say the latter thing is suspicious, but then again, when he posted there really wasn't much to say. So maybe I should just trust him for at least trying to talk about something sensible early on. But I have to say that a recap with comments would've been more useful than just a recap.
Wilwa - nothing more than a song parody this far, so no conclusions from me.
Shasta - said he's here and reading, but didn't post anything after that. Why was that, asks I.
Zil - it's weird, when I first read his post it struck me as more sensible than most of the others that far, but now that I read it, I noticed it was just banter. Weird. Maybe he's using some black magic on my brain.
Sally - is the general chit chat, like always on Day1's. Doesn't mean she shouldn't post some sensible stuff too, though.
Izzy - gives me good vibes this far. No idea why since she didn't talk much more sense than anybody else. She makes an interesting point about Wilwa, but as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.
Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* No, she hasn't done anything yet, but given my most recent ww experiences and what I've gathered from the games that took place while I didn't play, we should lynch her just to be on the safe side. She always manages to fool me, and looks like I'm not the only one...
Legate - quite a wishy washy first post, even though I have to congratulate him for making the first real effort to start talking sense. He doesn't quite sit right with me, there's something odd in his manner. Or maybe I just haven't played with him for ages...
Morsul - is quick to draw conclusions, which would make me quite suspicious if it wasn't something I perceive as characteristic for him.

Where's Nogrod and his horde of arguments and no-nonsense? I miss him!


edit: xed with Pitch

[wilwarin538]

[note] Wilwa planned to write that song days ago, before any roles were handed out. [/note]

OK. So I agree with what some said about how we shall have far more information tomorrow. And if each wolf pack chooses a hunter, and then the hunter chooses one of the Lovers, that's 5 people dying at Night. I know that's probably unlikely to happen, what with all the Rangers around and all. But still, we need to get wolves, because if we don't today, then by tomorrow they will likely make up half of the village. Which admittedly would increase our chances of lynching one, but still.

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Cause that makes a difference, still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone. But then if we dwindle each wolf pack down it decreases their chance of winning, but we still will have 2 Night kills which sucks. Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway. This double pack thing is whacky.

So I have to go eat a lot of food so that when the crazy lab people steal my blood I don't pass out. I will try to come on as soon as I get back, but I likely won't make sense until later in the day, because I'll probably be feeling a bit whoosey. Just warning you.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone.

By way of explaining my last one as I noticed I didn't do it in that post there above.

The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

It's a totally different thing whether we can make any deductions as to which lupine action points towards which possible combination of wolves to "direct" our lynches...

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nog

But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

Wilwa does make a point we'd be helping the second wolfpack by getting rid of the first since Pack A can't win until Pack B is gone. However, I'll have to go with the sentiment that "a wolf is a wolf" at this point. We have to lynch one before we can put him/her into a team. Still, I don't see this as a real sign against Wilwa.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That is indeed a highly peculiar thing to say. Though, you'd think a Wolfwa would be more careful.

I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared. *stares suspiciously at Nerwen*

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Where's Nogrod and his horde of arguments and no-nonsense?

Well here, sadly without a bunch of arguments as I'm just quickly skimming this through between two meetings.

Well not too much to comment so far, but that Legate & Lommy are right about the direness of the situation. That doesn't make them innocent though by any means. Actually I'd say on the contrary...

I mean underlining or speculating about the little aids we have looks a bit fishy to me from experience. Wolves oftentimes like to point at that kind of things in the beginning just to look fine (like they were thinking of the situation from the innocent perspective).

But yeah, in a hurry now. Back later.


EDIT: X'd with Wilwa

[Nogrod]

Wilwa, there is an easy answer to your question: let's get one pack down asap.

If there is anything like a choice (heh, like there would be) we should of course eliminate one team and bring the Night-kills down as soon as we can. "Helping" the other wolf-team is little compared to two Night kills.

The fact that you ask that makes me wonder your alignment though. To an innocent I think that is a selve-evident thing. (Yeah, the wolves can reduce the numbers of each other at Night as well, but we should not count on that to survive.

EDIT: X'd with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Cause that makes a difference, still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone. But then if we dwindle each wolf pack down it decreases their chance of winning, but we still will have 2 Night kills which sucks. Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway. This double pack thing is whacky.

Good question in any case. However when it comes to "weeding out one pack", I think it wouldn't really work, for I don't think there is any way you can "select" - only in case you had, for example, Wolf X dead and Wolf Y dead and you knew each of them is from a different pack, and then you were thinking whether to lynch person W or person Z, and there's suspected link between person X and W and between person Y and Z... But you know, that's sort of constructed situation. I don't think, somehow, that we'd have such a liberty of choice very much. I think we'd be just happy to lynch whichever Wolf we can (not that we know anything for sure anyway until the person is lynched, unless we have a Seer-dream, that is).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well not too much to comment so far, but that Legate & Lommy are right about the direness of the situation. That doesn't make them innocent though by any means. Actually I'd say on the contrary...

I mean underlining or speculating about the little aids we have looks a bit fishy to me from experience. Wolves oftentimes like to point at that kind of things in the beginning just to look fine (like they were thinking of the situation from the innocent perspective).

Okay, could not resist to say, "and Nogrod is doing the same" *points to the first sentence - circular argument* But anyway, nice to see you around at last... (although I hoped for more...)

EDIT: x-ed with Morsul and Nerwen
EDITEDIT: And Nogrod!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, a few things concerning the recent posts.

Morsul - I would once again strongly appeal on him not to act heedlessly, as he seems not to have changed much in his "fast jumps", like this:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Isabella: Throwing up a call for lynch in your first post is highly strange. You can pass it off as a joke later but I have a feeling we'll see you try to build a sturdy case against her. just laying the ground work for an innocent's death? Or are you a gifted with knowledge we don't have?

The way I saw it, it already was labeled as a joke by herself, so...?

Personally I don't get what's that people are saying about this all the time, for isn't that just random banter? I mean, what's the point here?? Like Lommy said:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.

but then, why to say the first part of the sentence:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

[Izzy] makes an interesting point about Wilwa, but as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.

What's so interesting there then, I wonder (if you even dismiss it yourself).

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

After last game, I quite agree with that. To be fair, though, wilwa's song was about being pursued by wolves rather than being wolvish herself, so this is anything but evidence.

But okay, maybe I miss something that has happened in a previous game and that made this more of notice than it would be normally?

What more... I was worried at first somewhat by Pitchwife's post, I had the impression that it's applauding me too much. But then on the second reading, it did not seem to me like that anymore. Well, just to comment on that, my words about half of the village being dead by toMorrow was of course figurative speech, but of course, it is possible (though unlikely... I hope). I guess it all depends on the effectivity of the Ranger and the level of competition of the Wolf packs.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

(But btw this means I will totally start screaming if somebody random votes, even on Day1. Seriously. We can't just waste votes in this game.)

This is a good remark, though. I suggest people really take this to their hearts. Well, at least it's not that the Wolves would want to go only all against the innocents - so it's not like six against eight when it comes to voting - but still, it isn't such a fun. Also, the votes of this Day have far more value in the sense that there is a far, far bigger chance to actually lynch a Wolf! So... this should actually not be any "relaxing Day".

By the way: just by mere numbers, AT LEAST THREE of the people who have posted this far MUST BE Wolves. From Morsul's post earlier on (Morsul's included), there must be at least one Wolf among the people posting. When one sees it like this it's actually quite scary.

EDIT: x-ed with wilwa and Nogrod

[Morsul the Dark]

I know it's horrible I'm trying to get a feel for people isn't it the way I'm acting "heedlessly" by looking at what people said. Maybe I should do what everyone else does "So and so FEELS off"

Preliminary means what I've seen so far it's early yet I could change my mind.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves? It looks at least sinister

I agree– and I also feel that there's been just a little too much joking around, even for Day One (yes, I'm including my own first post in that). However– some of the innocents may be trying trying to tread carefully, and maybe not look too innocent. Of course, the packs will need to go for each other, too, but I'd guess not this early.

Though, I haven't really been thinking it out properly... The dynamics of this game need more discussion, particularly insofar as they might affect how the wolves act. I am surprised there's been so little attention paid to that.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say. I'd say the latter thing is suspicious, but then again, when he posted there really wasn't much to say.

He's posted quite a few times without really saying anything. However he hasn't played for a long time, so I don't know what to make of it.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* No, she hasn't done anything yet, but given my most recent ww experiences and what I've gathered from the games that took place while I didn't play, we should lynch her just to be on the safe side.

Do you know, I guessed you were going to propose that? I'm actually quite flattered.

EDIT:X'd since Lommy (internet's slow at the moment).

[Pitchwife]

Following the time-hallowed tradition of looking for a wolf among the first three posters:

TEW (Ewie? Tewie?)
#3: says we're in big trouble, asks for a confession;
#8: 'confesses' he's not a wolf (big surprise!), song parody;
#10: does a not-awfully-helpful recap (to be fair, there really wasn't that much to comment on at the time);
#12 & 14: apologizes for gender confusion;
#16: thinks everybody is 'still neutral suspicionwise';
#18: disagrees with Izzy's suggestion to lynch wilwa for her song parody.
Conclusion so far: eager to play and posting quite a lot in terms of post count but not of actual content; most of it typical D1 early Morning banter (which is also true for everybody else up to that point), his last two posts show tender stirrings of actually playing. His obvious eagerness could simply be due to the fact that it's his first game in ages, or it could mean an excited wolf. Bears watching.

wilwa
#4: song parody (and some announcement about her future participation).
At the very worst, this can be considered buddying up to the Moddess, which is hardly a lynchworthy crime, especially as quite a lot of us have been guilty of it at times.
#25: gets around to some game-related posting, discusses the dynamics of dealing with two wolf-packs.
I have to concur with Nog's answer to this one. Whether or not we should halve the Night-kills if we can is not a question which should cause an innocent much headaches, especially not an experienced player like wilwa.
Conclusion so far: this last post does worry me - looks like contributing, but is really quite wishy-washy, confused and confusing. Most suspicious thing I've seen up to now.

Shasta
#6: obviously possessed by Nilp's spirit. I wonder if he'll take it to the point of voting himself.
Conclusion so far: the most enigmatic of this trio. 'Here and reading' but not really saying anything. Should go consult an exorcist.

Everybody else to follow by & by.

(x-ed with quite a few)

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by wilwa #25

But still, we need to get wolves, because if we don't today, then by tomorrow they will likely make up half of the village. Which admittedly would increase our chances of lynching one, but still.

I was going to say all that increases is our chances of getting eaten, but now that I think of it, I have another Question to the Moddess:
What happens if both packs together equal or outnumber the innocents? Do they devour the innocents jointly before turning against each other (as I'd assumed), or does one of the packs have to outnumber the innocents by themselves?

Originally Posted by Lommy#34

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste.

What else is new?...

Originally Posted by Lommy l.c. about wilwa's song

Well, it would've been a handy way of hinting something at wolves, but as I checked the roles for cobbler, it stopped making sense because there is now no one who would profit from sending any messages to the wolves. (I guess lovers wouldn't do that either...?)

Remembering Mira's game, there's not much I'd put beyond a Lover couple determined to win... But maybe not at this early point.
And just out of curiosity, what would you say should a WW-themed song parody be about in order not to be construed as hinting to the wolves?

[Pitchwife]

*applauds Legate for bringing some reason into the game*

Originally Posted by Legate

First, thumbs up for the War Pigs cover to TEW.

Seconded.

Originally Posted by the same

The point is, of course, that very well half of us might not be here anymore by toMorrow.

That would be the worst case scenario: 1 lynch + 2 Night-kills (one from each of the two packs) + supposing 2 of these 3 people are the Hunter and one of the Lovers, they each take 1 other person with them = 5 people dead. Not quite half the village, but appalling enough, to be sure.
It's like having a Werebear around, only worse, because we'll have to eradicate one entire pack of three in order to halve the bloodshed. Granted, with a little luck some of the Night-kills will hit wolves of the competing pack, but we'd better not count on the wolves to do our job for us.

Originally Posted by still the same

I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos?

The way I understood it, only innocents can be revived, and they'll be revived as ordos, whatever their previous role. (If only original ordos could be revived in the first place, there might not be any revival at all - this village seems to suffer from a remarkable shortage of them...)

Originally Posted by still the same

Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves?

Yes, you should. We all should.

Originally Posted by you know who...

Also, am I right, if a Unicorn dies on the first Day, the ability's wasted?).

Originally Posted by Modlote on Admin thread

If the WereUnicorn is Fenrised, then I'll wait until after the Nightkills to revive the person.

The same applies, I suppose, if the innocent Unicorn should be mislynched on Day1.

Originally Posted by Izzy

I think it a fair conclusion that joking about being evil on Day one, should net you a lynching!

After last game, I quite agree with that. To be fair, though, wilwa's song was about being pursued by wolves rather than being wolvish herself, so this is anything but evidence.