T-I-G WW LXXIV: War of the Wolves

[Morsul the Dark]

Going to work soon just popping in.

Preliminary look at everyone who's posted

The Elf Warrior... chatter chatter chatter.... Day 1 early on not suspicious (Just noticed his analysis post however has a song as well as Wilwa... evilish

Wilwa.... The lovely talented song writer...apparently... Songs always make me suspicious they always say "Look I'm fun keep me around" to me. evilish

Shasta... Some people post 'In-Character' Shasta posted as someone else entirely... Not liking that.

Inzil: Nothing to report on his one post.

Nerwen: To many times she slips under everyone's radar especially mine... I'll be watching you.

Sally: I give up. You're crazy random and ridiculous. I'm watching you too. I know your M.O. so I'll have at least an idea what to watch for.

Isabella: Throwing up a call for lynch in your first post is highly strange. You can pass it off as a joke later but I have a feeling we'll see you try to build a sturdy case against her. just laying the ground work for an innocent's death? Or are you a gifted with knowledge we don't have?

[Thinlómien]

Hi there people. Feels good to be back to ww. *grin* *stretches*

I'm still not entirely familiar with the rules, I confess, but as Legate said, the situation will start to make more sense toMorrow probably as then we will have seen the actions of one Night.

Originally Posted by Izzy

Inzy was a trial one for Inziladun's.. but I think Dun is the most popular one as of late I would say.

Although he is also called Zil or Inzil, don't forget that.

Originally Posted by Legate

maybe just, I hope I understood it correctly, the revived people can be only Ordos and they will return as only Ordos? I think that's pretty powerful tool in that case, and I guess there can be also pretty creative use for that, but most of all, I hope it will provide the balance needed.

I think also gifted can be revived but they'll just return as ordos... a revived seer would be quite an advantage for us! And in any case, the Unicorns are a way for us to get a few known innocents. But in any case the Unicorns need to die in order to revive somebody and they can both only die once (and the WereUnicorn will probably be rather unwilling to die I'd assume), so I wouldn't count too much on them.

In any case, this will be quite a game - lots of kills, revivals and ranger saves. *shrugs* It'll be confusing but hopefully fun! I still have to echo Legate's slight concern on the amount of evil people around. There's only 14 of us and 6 are wolves and 3 have loverish interests. So, as obvious as this kind of advice may sound, you should trust people even less than in an ordinary game.

I'm also trying to resettle my brain for the presence of two wolf packs. It's not that there can be wolves in different teams, but it's more like my personal sense of justice being insulted by the fact that the innocents' chance to win is 1/3 instead of 1/2. It does seem unfair, especially as we can't slaughter anybody at Night. I had issues with this already in Sauce's game years ago, if somebody remembers, so maybe I should just shut up and get used to it...

(But btw this means I will totally start screaming if somebody random votes, even on Day1. Seriously. We can't just waste votes in this game.)

My thoughts on people this far -

EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say. I'd say the latter thing is suspicious, but then again, when he posted there really wasn't much to say. So maybe I should just trust him for at least trying to talk about something sensible early on. But I have to say that a recap with comments would've been more useful than just a recap.
Wilwa - nothing more than a song parody this far, so no conclusions from me.
Shasta - said he's here and reading, but didn't post anything after that. Why was that, asks I.
Zil - it's weird, when I first read his post it struck me as more sensible than most of the others that far, but now that I read it, I noticed it was just banter. Weird. Maybe he's using some black magic on my brain.
Sally - is the general chit chat, like always on Day1's. Doesn't mean she shouldn't post some sensible stuff too, though.
Izzy - gives me good vibes this far. No idea why since she didn't talk much more sense than anybody else. She makes an interesting point about Wilwa, but as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.
Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* No, she hasn't done anything yet, but given my most recent ww experiences and what I've gathered from the games that took place while I didn't play, we should lynch her just to be on the safe side. She always manages to fool me, and looks like I'm not the only one...
Legate - quite a wishy washy first post, even though I have to congratulate him for making the first real effort to start talking sense. He doesn't quite sit right with me, there's something odd in his manner. Or maybe I just haven't played with him for ages...
Morsul - is quick to draw conclusions, which would make me quite suspicious if it wasn't something I perceive as characteristic for him.

Where's Nogrod and his horde of arguments and no-nonsense? I miss him!


edit: xed with Pitch

[wilwarin538]

[note] Wilwa planned to write that song days ago, before any roles were handed out. [/note]

OK. So I agree with what some said about how we shall have far more information tomorrow. And if each wolf pack chooses a hunter, and then the hunter chooses one of the Lovers, that's 5 people dying at Night. I know that's probably unlikely to happen, what with all the Rangers around and all. But still, we need to get wolves, because if we don't today, then by tomorrow they will likely make up half of the village. Which admittedly would increase our chances of lynching one, but still.

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Cause that makes a difference, still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone. But then if we dwindle each wolf pack down it decreases their chance of winning, but we still will have 2 Night kills which sucks. Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway. This double pack thing is whacky.

So I have to go eat a lot of food so that when the crazy lab people steal my blood I don't pass out. I will try to come on as soon as I get back, but I likely won't make sense until later in the day, because I'll probably be feeling a bit whoosey. Just warning you.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone.

By way of explaining my last one as I noticed I didn't do it in that post there above.

The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

It's a totally different thing whether we can make any deductions as to which lupine action points towards which possible combination of wolves to "direct" our lynches...

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nog

But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

Wilwa does make a point we'd be helping the second wolfpack by getting rid of the first since Pack A can't win until Pack B is gone. However, I'll have to go with the sentiment that "a wolf is a wolf" at this point. We have to lynch one before we can put him/her into a team. Still, I don't see this as a real sign against Wilwa.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That is indeed a highly peculiar thing to say. Though, you'd think a Wolfwa would be more careful.

I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared. *stares suspiciously at Nerwen*

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I refreshed my page and I could have sworn there was more to this quote. Something about how it looked like Wilwa was advising us not to lynch wolves, but it seems to have disappeared.

Yep. I re-read it and realised she wasn't saying that, at least. Should have made a note about the edit– I'll do it now.

[Pitchwife]

Continuing (still in order of appearance, and coming to some of the loudmouths now, so this is getting longer)

Legate
#21: is concerned about the amount of killings to expect and the percentage of wolves in the village, ponders the mechanics of revivals;
#27: appeals to Morsul not to be heedless, doesn't get people's reactions to Izzy's post about wilwa's song*, is worried whether I applauded him too much or not, agrees w/ Lommy that we can't afford to waste votes;
#32: comments on wilwa's # 25 that weeding out one pack won't work except by luck, retorts to Nog's remark about him and Lommy;
#35: says the situation is not quite as dire as it looked, for Hunter kills may work for us; accepts Morsul's defense against accusation of heedlessness; is scared of Nerwen (who isn't?); says Nog makes good remarks about wilwa but may have furry motives; thinks my #33 was too unserious and 'toy-posting'; agrees w/ Lommy about the same point as Nerwen in #37.
Conclusion so far (at the risk of applauding too much once again): looks reasonable & constructive, makes some good comments on game dynamics; valuable if innocent, and no reason for me to think otherwise yet.

Morsul
#22: a list ! Tewie and wilwa 'evilish' for posting song parodies, not liking Shasta for posting as Nilp, nothing on Zil, watching Nerwen and sally, suspects Izzy for joking lynch suggestion (all this admittedly preliminary);
#29: defends himself against Legate who said he was acting heedlessly.
Conclusion so far: typical Morsul. I see where Legate's remark about him was coming from, but let's give Morsul some credit - that was one of the first posts that actually made an attempt at playing, and the very first to throw out some suspicions with reasons (however improvised) instead of banter.

Lommy next. That'll take some time...

*PS for Legate's enlightenment: Nerwen's first post last game started with 'Yay! Go wolves!', while wilwa was all bouncy optimism how good it looked for the village; both were wolves, and they won.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Lommy next. That'll take some time...

Hey! Unfair! You have already made five posts, I have only two. You are the loudmouth here.

Legate and Pitchwife are both looking better now, but I still don't trust them. Nerwen seems genuinely innocent, which doesn't point at anything. Nogrod looks quite good too even though poor him is busy. I'm also quite liking Zil and Kit's recent posts. The problem is, it's very unlikely they're all good and innocent. Falling back to my old "oh no, I don't suspect anyone" habit, I guess... Not nice.

Where's Boro, btw? And I'd also like to hear more from Shasta and EW, but I guess I just have to wait patiently as all the gentlemen are American... (timezones)

I can already say this won't be an easy Day for decisions... I guess I could just be nice towards Ewie and Kit - if they don't do anything too suspicious - since he is playing first time after a long time and the second has been incredibly many times wrongfully lynched on Day1 and I've always been in the bandwagon... But other than that, not much inclinations either way yet.

[Pitchwife]

Lommy:
#24: answers Legate about revival mechanics, agrees with his concern about the number of wolves, is worried by the presence of two packs, warns against wasting votes and voting random (good point); gives a list of impressions so far (which I won't recap here, because most of it is just either/or);
#34: thinks I'm too careful/serious, agrees with Nog about wilwa's question in #25, is pessimistic about the killing speed; wilwa's song not a cobbler hint as there is no cobbler; agrees w/ Nerwen's call for discussion of game mechanics and offers some ideas, which I'd like to comment on:

Originally Posted by Lommy

The first thing that comes to mind is that I guess it would make sense for them [i.e. the two wolf packs, Pw.]to hunt each other during the Days and innocents during the Nights, or that's at least what I'd do if I was them.

This sounds completely plausible to me - getting rival wolves lynched will help them gain our trust while they go on eating us under cover of the Night. But then -

Originally Posted by still Lommy

Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.

Both Legate (who called it a 'good remark') and Nerwen agreed with this; and it's true, of course. But what exactly is the point of stating it? In other words, is there any conclusion to be drawn from this warning that will be in any way helpful, other than that we should mistrust those who make good cases and put effort into finding wolves? In that case, whom should we trust, or rather, on what basis should we decide whom to trust? Or shouldn't we trust anybody at all? Thanks, I think we knew that to begin with...
Conclusion so far: two lengthy posts that sound reasonable enough, but most of it is actually general remarks about the situation and being wavery about people, looking more helpful than she really is (especially that last point I've just commented on).

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy's last.

[wilwarin538]

So turns out my body highly disagrees with having 3 viles of blood forcefully removed from it, so if nothing I say here makes sense, pleace forgive me as I've been trying not to faint for the last hour...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Wilwa, there is an easy answer to your question: let's get one pack down asap.

If there is anything like a choice (heh, like there would be) we should of course eliminate one team and bring the Night-kills down as soon as we can. "Helping" the other wolf-team is little compared to two Night kills.

The fact that you ask that makes me wonder your alignment though. To an innocent I think that is a selve-evident thing. (Yeah, the wolves can reduce the numbers of each other at Night as well, but we should not count on that to survive.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

It's a totally different thing whether we can make any deductions as to which lupine action points towards which possible combination of wolves to "direct" our lynches...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.

Ok.

So what I was trying to say was yes we want to get a whole pack gone as soon as possble because we want to stop the double night kills, BUT one pack can't win unless the other pack is gone, so in effect by getting rid of one, yes we'll be helping ourselves, but we'll also be making the other pack's lives a bit easier.
(Nog, I don't think it's unfair, I just don't want to help the wolves out)

Now if you do the math we have a good chance of lynching a wolf, but the wolf packs also have a good chance of night killing a wolf from the other pack. Also with 3 rangers it could easily decrease the night kills. So it could turn out that maybe every Night we won't even have 2 deaths, just from maybe the packs choosing the same person, or the ranger interfering, or whatnot. So bringing down each pack to 1 or 2 each would make it far harder for them to win, than having one pack at 3 and getting rid of the other pack completely.

Is my mind just weird, cause this seems to make a lot of sense to me.

And yes, obviously it's hard to know which pack wolves are from anyway, so probably what I was saying is irrelevant since there is really no way to know which pack a wolf is from til it's dead. And even that we haven't had confirmed yet. I was just trying to get discussions started, which obviously worked....

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But Wilwa's ill, it seems. At least she's having blood tests, anyway.

Yes, the tests are because it seems likely that I have some sort of illness.

So I just typed that whole thing mostly with my left hand, cause my right arm is kind of dead and crazy sore, so I have to stop now. Plus I have lots of homework. I'll be back on later though after I get some sugar in me.

x'ed with Legate

[Pitchwife]

Continuing in order of appearance:

Zil
#7: the post that Lommy said looked reasonable but was really just banter. Which it was.
#36: thanks sally for clearing up Tewie's confusion about him and Izzy; thinks the revived could be given any of the dead's roles (this was cleared up on the Admin thread, go read); comments on Nog's 'interesting observation' about wilwa ('helping the other wolf-pack'); comments on Lommy about game dynamics, thinks getting rid on one pack in a row will be a matter of luck (which it is).
Conclusion so far: rather guarded, mostly commenting on things others said, which is not untypical for him early in the game; would be nice to hear some opinions about other people, though.

sally
#9, 11, 13, 15: dreams of eloping with Shasta Nilphreduin, some clearing up of gender & other confusion, all in all typical early D1 sallyness.
Conclusion so far: None.

Izzy
#17: suggests lynching wilwa for song parody about paper communication w/ wolves. (Which I'm assuming was joking.)
#20: elaborates her last saying to lynch anybody for joking about being evil on D1, especially wilwa.
And that's it.
Conclusion so far: jokingly suggests lynching people for jokes. I expect her to get serious when she returns & am curious whether she's going to suspect wilwa seriously (as Morsul seems to think).

Nerwen
#19: finds Tewie suspicious for not suspecting anyone (more joking).
#30: serious responses to Legate and Lommy, asks for more discussion of game dynamics, thinks some of the innocents may try not to look too innocent (meaning the gifteds, I suppose);
#37: thinks wilwa would be more careful if wolvish (referring to #25 and Nog's comment on it); agrees w/ Lommy that wolves may try to earn our trust by making cases against competing wolves.
#40: acknowledges an edit in her last, after Kit pointed it out.
Conclusion so far: like Zil, she's mostly commenting on others' posts; her comments look sensible and balanced, but she's been a terribly effective sensible wolf in the past and needs watching.
What really gives me pause is that last one - I'd have thought editing the actual content of your posts (other than typos and formatting) was an absolute no-no in WW?? Good catch, Kit.

To be continued...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What really gives me pause is that last one - I'd have thought editing the actual content of your posts (other than typos and formatting) was an absolute no-no in WW??

Yes. Like I said, I should have noted it, but I was feeling too lazy to explain, so I just marked it as an x-post with Lommy. I'd prefer this not to be blown out of proportion.

Anyway, I'm going to bed, now. It's late, even for a night-owl like me.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Where's Nogrod and his horde of arguments and no-nonsense?

Well here, sadly without a bunch of arguments as I'm just quickly skimming this through between two meetings.

Well not too much to comment so far, but that Legate & Lommy are right about the direness of the situation. That doesn't make them innocent though by any means. Actually I'd say on the contrary...

I mean underlining or speculating about the little aids we have looks a bit fishy to me from experience. Wolves oftentimes like to point at that kind of things in the beginning just to look fine (like they were thinking of the situation from the innocent perspective).

But yeah, in a hurry now. Back later.


EDIT: X'd with Wilwa

[Nogrod]

Wilwa, there is an easy answer to your question: let's get one pack down asap.

If there is anything like a choice (heh, like there would be) we should of course eliminate one team and bring the Night-kills down as soon as we can. "Helping" the other wolf-team is little compared to two Night kills.

The fact that you ask that makes me wonder your alignment though. To an innocent I think that is a selve-evident thing. (Yeah, the wolves can reduce the numbers of each other at Night as well, but we should not count on that to survive.

EDIT: X'd with Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Question for the moddess: will we be notified when a wolf dies, of which pack they are from?

Cause that makes a difference, still not sure though which way would be smarter. I mean we could try to get rid of one wolf pack all at once to decrease the night kills, but then at the same time if we do that then we're helping the other wolf team because they can't win unless the other pack is gone. But then if we dwindle each wolf pack down it decreases their chance of winning, but we still will have 2 Night kills which sucks. Plus if we're not told their packs when they die then it's not like we could try to plan that out anyway. This double pack thing is whacky.

Good question in any case. However when it comes to "weeding out one pack", I think it wouldn't really work, for I don't think there is any way you can "select" - only in case you had, for example, Wolf X dead and Wolf Y dead and you knew each of them is from a different pack, and then you were thinking whether to lynch person W or person Z, and there's suspected link between person X and W and between person Y and Z... But you know, that's sort of constructed situation. I don't think, somehow, that we'd have such a liberty of choice very much. I think we'd be just happy to lynch whichever Wolf we can (not that we know anything for sure anyway until the person is lynched, unless we have a Seer-dream, that is).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Well not too much to comment so far, but that Legate & Lommy are right about the direness of the situation. That doesn't make them innocent though by any means. Actually I'd say on the contrary...

I mean underlining or speculating about the little aids we have looks a bit fishy to me from experience. Wolves oftentimes like to point at that kind of things in the beginning just to look fine (like they were thinking of the situation from the innocent perspective).

Okay, could not resist to say, "and Nogrod is doing the same" *points to the first sentence - circular argument* But anyway, nice to see you around at last... (although I hoped for more...)

EDIT: x-ed with Morsul and Nerwen
EDITEDIT: And Nogrod!

[Thinlómien]

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste. I don't know, maybe it's that he's so serious. Although, I wonder if certain moroseness should be a sign of innocence in this game as our future views aren't very cheerful... But since Nogrod rebuked me for being gloomy, I'd like to say what I apparently left unsaid before: it's not like we have an impossible situation. I trust our Moddess when she said she's done try-outs for the setting, so it can't be too unfair. We should have that darn 1/3 chance to win.

I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.

I'm actually quite pessimistic towards the killing speed, because we need to lynch three wolves to get less kills and they all need to be of the same pack. Not an easy feat. Let's just hope we have a brilliant ranger.

Originally Posted by Legate

What's so interesting there then, I wonder (if you even dismiss it yourself).

Well, it would've been a handy way of hinting something at wolves, but as I checked the roles for cobbler, it stopped making sense because there is now no one who would profit from sending any messages to the wolves. (I guess lovers wouldn't do that either...?)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I agree– and I also feel that there's been just a little too much joking around, even for Day One (yes, I'm including my own first post in that).

I wouldn't say there's been too much joking, just maybe that there's been too little substance. There haven't been too many posts yet in total. And we also have still half of the Day left.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Though, I haven't really been thinking it out properly... The dynamics of this game need more discussion, particularly insofar as they might affect how the wolves act. I am surprised there's been so little attention paid to that.

Right you are. I'm finding it difficult to settle my brain to the werewolf mode, let alone a two-pack werewolf mode. Once I have a bit more time at some point, I will think a little deeper about how the existence of another pack might affect the wolves' behaviour. The first thing that comes to mind is that I guess it would make sense for them to hunt each other during the Days and innocents during the Nights, or that's at least what I'd do if I was them. Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.


edit: xed with Pitch

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

TEW (Ewie? Tewie?)

Chewie.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

But since Nogrod rebuked me for being gloomy, I'd like to say what I apparently left unsaid before: it's not like we have an impossible situation. I trust our Moddess when she said she's done try-outs for the setting, so it can't be too unfair. We should have that darn 1/3 chance to win.

Let me add something cheerful for counter-balance. Another possibility is - and not probably much more improbable than the worst scenario, if not even the same - that e.g. we lynch a Wolf toDay, it's a HunterWolf, who kills another Wolf from the rival pack, then the packs kill each one Wolf from the other Pack at Night, and we will have two packs of one Wolf the following Day, and no innocent dead. Or something like that.

Speaking of that, it occured to me: what will happen if there were, say, two last remaining Wolves (from different packs), and they attacked each other at Night? Will they kill each other?

Otherwise: a few comments to the previous posts.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I know it's horrible I'm trying to get a feel for people isn't it the way I'm acting "heedlessly" by looking at what people said. Maybe I should do what everyone else does "So and so FEELS off"

Preliminary means what I've seen so far it's early yet I could change my mind.

Okay, point taken. It was just more like that you were being suspicious of something which, by how it looks, does not give reasons for suspicion by itself (not the way you said it anyway). Of course you're free to suspect whomever you want to on whatever grounds you want to...

I am mightily scared of Nerwen. Really. And given the general amount of Wolves, it isn't that far-fetched to think she might be one of them, is it...

And Nogrod makes good remarks in relation to wilwa's words... however... I cannot shake the feeling that it might be intentional action (albeit on good grounds) from a Wolf as well.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste. I don't know, maybe it's that he's so serious.

PW seems too unserious to my taste (after the last post, of course) - which could be interpretated as careful too. In the last post: it's like saying something basically without saying much concrete, a bit like a "toy-post", to do something.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.

That, if nothing else, is a good remark too.

But now off for a while! (Or longer...)

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

No no no, you're right about Inziladun. *pets you* Unless he had a horrible accident this weekend (that I wouldn't even want to know about!) he is in fact a guy. Isabellkya, however, is a girl. *snuggles them both* Easy enough to make such mistakes, so don't fret, k?

Thanks for clearing that up. Much as I like Isabelkya, the two of us are not interchangeable.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

The way I understood it, only innocents can be revived, and they'll be revived as ordos, whatever their previous role. (If only original ordos could be revived in the first place, there might not be any revival at all - this village seems to suffer from a remarkable shortage of them..

I thought the revived could be given any of the dead's roles. Am I wrong there?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

That's an interesting observation about Wilwa. I'll keep it in mind.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I agree with Nogrod that the solution to Wilwa's question is easy. Once we catch a wolf, we should go for those who look like his/her packmates so we can lessen the horrible killing rate. Although of course we still shouldn't ignore other people who look wolvish.

I'm actually quite pessimistic towards the killing speed, because we need to lynch three wolves to get less kills and they all need to be of the same pack. Not an easy feat. Let's just hope we have a brilliant ranger.

Looking for associations is always worthwhile. Unfortunately, I think nailing wolves in succession from the same pack is going to be more a matter of luck than deduction. With so many wolves running around, there's going to be a lot to process, and I also think it may be easier for them to avoid links to one another.

x/d with Legate

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The bolded part is the one that raises my eyebrows. There is wolfpack A and wolfpack B - and there is no difference which one of them devours us. So as soon as we get our first wolf we need to hope for the next one being from the same pack, whichever of them it is. And then the third from the same pack. It doesn't matter which one it is. But the way you bring it up feels to me like it mattered to you Wilwa, like you saw it was kind of unfair if we in a way "helped" the other wolfpack.

That is indeed a highly peculiar thing to say. Though, you'd think a Wolfwa would be more careful.

But Wilwa's ill, it seems. At least she's having blood tests, anyway. Which might make an ill-considered remark more likely– for an innocent as well as a wolf.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Although, I wonder if certain moroseness should be a sign of innocence in this game as our future views aren't very cheerful...

*cough* Getting a little close to the "If I were a wolf I'd do X but look I'm doing Y" type of argument, no?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm finding it difficult to settle my brain to the werewolf mode, let alone a two-pack werewolf mode. Once I have a bit more time at some point, I will think a little deeper about how the existence of another pack might affect the wolves' behaviour. The first thing that comes to mind is that I guess it would make sense for them to hunt each other during the Days and innocents during the Nights, or that's at least what I'd do if I was them. Anyway, that leads to the unpleasant fact that somebody who a) makes good cases against people and seems to put effort to finding wolves or b) gets a wolf lynched isn't necessarily innocent.

A good point. It's a little like the situation when you have a Werebear– the wolves (and cobblers) are often such eager and helpful bear-hunters that the village starts trusting them.

EDIT:X'd since Lommy again.
EDIT2: Took out sentence about Wilwa– misunderstood quote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, a few things concerning the recent posts.

Morsul - I would once again strongly appeal on him not to act heedlessly, as he seems not to have changed much in his "fast jumps", like this:

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Isabella: Throwing up a call for lynch in your first post is highly strange. You can pass it off as a joke later but I have a feeling we'll see you try to build a sturdy case against her. just laying the ground work for an innocent's death? Or are you a gifted with knowledge we don't have?

The way I saw it, it already was labeled as a joke by herself, so...?

Personally I don't get what's that people are saying about this all the time, for isn't that just random banter? I mean, what's the point here?? Like Lommy said:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.

but then, why to say the first part of the sentence:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

[Izzy] makes an interesting point about Wilwa, but as the cobbler was removed from the rules, it doesn't make much sense.

What's so interesting there then, I wonder (if you even dismiss it yourself).

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

After last game, I quite agree with that. To be fair, though, wilwa's song was about being pursued by wolves rather than being wolvish herself, so this is anything but evidence.

But okay, maybe I miss something that has happened in a previous game and that made this more of notice than it would be normally?

What more... I was worried at first somewhat by Pitchwife's post, I had the impression that it's applauding me too much. But then on the second reading, it did not seem to me like that anymore. Well, just to comment on that, my words about half of the village being dead by toMorrow was of course figurative speech, but of course, it is possible (though unlikely... I hope). I guess it all depends on the effectivity of the Ranger and the level of competition of the Wolf packs.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

(But btw this means I will totally start screaming if somebody random votes, even on Day1. Seriously. We can't just waste votes in this game.)

This is a good remark, though. I suggest people really take this to their hearts. Well, at least it's not that the Wolves would want to go only all against the innocents - so it's not like six against eight when it comes to voting - but still, it isn't such a fun. Also, the votes of this Day have far more value in the sense that there is a far, far bigger chance to actually lynch a Wolf! So... this should actually not be any "relaxing Day".

By the way: just by mere numbers, AT LEAST THREE of the people who have posted this far MUST BE Wolves. From Morsul's post earlier on (Morsul's included), there must be at least one Wolf among the people posting. When one sees it like this it's actually quite scary.

EDIT: x-ed with wilwa and Nogrod

[Morsul the Dark]

I know it's horrible I'm trying to get a feel for people isn't it the way I'm acting "heedlessly" by looking at what people said. Maybe I should do what everyone else does "So and so FEELS off"

Preliminary means what I've seen so far it's early yet I could change my mind.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Because - at last, a totally insignificant and totally unimportant note - should I be worried that nobody seems to worry about the fact that almost a half of the people in the village are Wolves? It looks at least sinister

I agree– and I also feel that there's been just a little too much joking around, even for Day One (yes, I'm including my own first post in that). However– some of the innocents may be trying trying to tread carefully, and maybe not look too innocent. Of course, the packs will need to go for each other, too, but I'd guess not this early.

Though, I haven't really been thinking it out properly... The dynamics of this game need more discussion, particularly insofar as they might affect how the wolves act. I am surprised there's been so little attention paid to that.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

EW - seems slightly nervous and at loss as for what to say. I'd say the latter thing is suspicious, but then again, when he posted there really wasn't much to say.

He's posted quite a few times without really saying anything. However he hasn't played for a long time, so I don't know what to make of it.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nerwen - LYNCH HER! Erm... *cough* No, she hasn't done anything yet, but given my most recent ww experiences and what I've gathered from the games that took place while I didn't play, we should lynch her just to be on the safe side.

Do you know, I guessed you were going to propose that? I'm actually quite flattered.

EDIT:X'd since Lommy (internet's slow at the moment).

[Pitchwife]

Following the time-hallowed tradition of looking for a wolf among the first three posters:

TEW (Ewie? Tewie?)
#3: says we're in big trouble, asks for a confession;
#8: 'confesses' he's not a wolf (big surprise!), song parody;
#10: does a not-awfully-helpful recap (to be fair, there really wasn't that much to comment on at the time);
#12 & 14: apologizes for gender confusion;
#16: thinks everybody is 'still neutral suspicionwise';
#18: disagrees with Izzy's suggestion to lynch wilwa for her song parody.
Conclusion so far: eager to play and posting quite a lot in terms of post count but not of actual content; most of it typical D1 early Morning banter (which is also true for everybody else up to that point), his last two posts show tender stirrings of actually playing. His obvious eagerness could simply be due to the fact that it's his first game in ages, or it could mean an excited wolf. Bears watching.

wilwa
#4: song parody (and some announcement about her future participation).
At the very worst, this can be considered buddying up to the Moddess, which is hardly a lynchworthy crime, especially as quite a lot of us have been guilty of it at times.
#25: gets around to some game-related posting, discusses the dynamics of dealing with two wolf-packs.
I have to concur with Nog's answer to this one. Whether or not we should halve the Night-kills if we can is not a question which should cause an innocent much headaches, especially not an experienced player like wilwa.
Conclusion so far: this last post does worry me - looks like contributing, but is really quite wishy-washy, confused and confusing. Most suspicious thing I've seen up to now.

Shasta
#6: obviously possessed by Nilp's spirit. I wonder if he'll take it to the point of voting himself.
Conclusion so far: the most enigmatic of this trio. 'Here and reading' but not really saying anything. Should go consult an exorcist.

Everybody else to follow by & by.

(x-ed with quite a few)

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by wilwa #25

But still, we need to get wolves, because if we don't today, then by tomorrow they will likely make up half of the village. Which admittedly would increase our chances of lynching one, but still.

I was going to say all that increases is our chances of getting eaten, but now that I think of it, I have another Question to the Moddess:
What happens if both packs together equal or outnumber the innocents? Do they devour the innocents jointly before turning against each other (as I'd assumed), or does one of the packs have to outnumber the innocents by themselves?

Originally Posted by Lommy#34

Pitchwife seems somehow too careful for my taste.

What else is new?...

Originally Posted by Lommy l.c. about wilwa's song

Well, it would've been a handy way of hinting something at wolves, but as I checked the roles for cobbler, it stopped making sense because there is now no one who would profit from sending any messages to the wolves. (I guess lovers wouldn't do that either...?)

Remembering Mira's game, there's not much I'd put beyond a Lover couple determined to win... But maybe not at this early point.
And just out of curiosity, what would you say should a WW-themed song parody be about in order not to be construed as hinting to the wolves?