Rock Bands and Tolkien (Nightwish and more)

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Well, I would respectfully point out that Amon Amarth are not exactly black metal. Actually, I know this band quite well, and the bassist and founding member is the Lord of the Rings fan: he suggested the name and the others agreed that it had a nice ring to it.

Also: get.........cooler? Which alternative universe are you living in if you think making Tolkien references increases your 'cool'?

In a universe of emo kids, having references to Tolkien or other literary giants, no matter how remote or lousy, basically does.

I don't know what Meyer is.

Stephanie Meyer. Author of "books" I cannot touch without losing self-respect.

Burzum is recognisable, surely, to us all, from the inscription on the Ring of Sauron:

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

It's also the name of one of the most influential black metal projects. Try looking for some Burzum; though you said you don't like growling vocals... how about screams? If not, he does plenty of ambient work too.

Perhaps my boyfriend knows and even likes it (he likes growling songs). I'll look for it at the underground market, and if it turns out that I can make an exception to my growling-singer rule, I'll do the spoiled-brat route and ask my dad to get a cd.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Lindale

In a universe of emo kids, having references to Tolkien or other literary giants, no matter how remote or lousy, basically does.

Methinks the lady doth overestimate the power of emo.

[Lalwendë]

If bands want to be really cool then they reference someone like JG Ballard or Nabokov or Illuminatus!, not Tolkien, because Tolkien still isn't really what you'd call 'cool' - and that's part of the appeal for many of us

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If bands want to be really cool then they reference someone like JG Ballard or Nabokov or Illuminatus!, not Tolkien, because Tolkien still isn't really what you'd call 'cool' - and that's part of the appeal for many of us

Hmmm...but I think Tolkien transcends coolness/noncoolness in many instances. After all, when Lord of the Rings references appear in lyrics by such Rock Godz as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath (the song 'Wizard' was inspired by Gandalf, according to the semi-comotose Ozzy Osbourne, and Geezer Butler is an ardent LotR fan), then Tolkien acquires a patina of legitimacy, at least among the 'glitterati' (in the glitter rock sense), but not so the 'literati' (in the constipated academic sense) -- that is where one finds the clearest condemnations of Tolkien.

But then, I think that literary, classical music and art references were de rigeur in the late 60's/early 70's, particularly with English bands. In addition to Led Zep and Sabbath (who also reference HP Lovecraft's 'Beyond the Wall of Sleep'), we have Pink Floyd's 'The Piper at the Gates of Dawn' (from a chapter title in Grahame's 'Wind in the Willows'), Jethro Tull quoting Robert Burns as well as lifting Bach's 'Bouree', King Crimson describing Rembrandt's 'The Night Watch' in song, Emerson, Lake and Palmer revising Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition', and the Beatles citing or referring to Kahil Gibran, Lewis Carroll, Edgar Allan Poe and snippets of King Lear.

This often is derided as pomposity and pretension by critics, but I think it was genuine love of the source material by the bands, and the music plays on long after the pens lie stiff and cold in the critic's rigor-mortised hands. Later on we have The Police referring to Nabokov, The Waterboys doing an absolutely enchanting version of WB Yeats' 'The Stolen Child' and REM rattling off a host of cultural and literary references in 'It's the End of the World as We Know It'.

So, cool or not cool? It's in the eye (or in this case, the ear) of the beholder. But I think the majority of Tolkienites could give a rat's hairy patoot about critics in any case.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

(the song 'Wizard' was inspired by Gandalf, according to the semi-comotose Ozzy Osbourne, and Geezer Butler is an ardent LotR fan)

Haha, I was right!

Sorry, erm... what were we talking about?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Hmmm...but I think Tolkien transcends coolness/noncoolness in many instances. After all, when Lord of the Rings references appear in lyrics by such Rock Godz as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath (the song 'Wizard' was inspired by Gandalf, according to the semi-comotose Ozzy Osbourne, and Geezer Butler is an ardent LotR fan), then Tolkien acquires a patina of legitimacy, at least among the 'glitterati' (in the glitter rock sense), but not so the 'literati' (in the constipated academic sense) -- that is where one finds the clearest condemnations of Tolkien.

But then, I think that literary, classical music and art references were de rigeur in the late 60's/early 70's, particularly with English bands. In addition to Led Zep and Sabbath (who also reference HP Lovecraft's 'Beyond the Wall of Sleep'), we have Pink Floyd's 'The Piper at the Gates of Dawn' (from a chapter title in Grahame's 'Wind in the Willows'), Jethro Tull quoting Robert Burns as well as lifting Bach's 'Bouree', King Crimson describing Rembrandt's 'The Night Watch' in song, Emerson, Lake and Palmer revising Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition', and the Beatles citing or referring to Kahil Gibran, Lewis Carroll, Edgar Allan Poe and snippets of King Lear.

This often is derided as pomposity and pretension by critics, but I think it was genuine love of the source material by the bands, and the music plays on long after the pens lie stiff and cold in the critic's rigor-mortised hands. Later on we have The Police referring to Nabokov, The Waterboys doing an absolutely enchanting version of WB Yeats' 'The Stolen Child' and REM rattling off a host of cultural and literary references in 'It's the End of the World as We Know It'.

So, cool or not cool? It's in the eye (or in this case, the ear) of the beholder. But I think the majority of Tolkienites could give a rat's hairy patoot about critics in any case.

I think Tolkien references are cool to those of us who enjoy what the whippersnappers now term 'dad rock' (the cheeky rascals), and to those of us of a more metal inclination. But will they ever be cool to the metrosexual set who care for nothing more than slight and obscure references to modernism in their song lyrics - if they deign to listen to songs at all

There's still a distinct whiff of patchouli, jazz cigarettes and dads with unkempt beards who like looking at motorbikes about Tolkien references in songs. Which is good

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I think Tolkien references are cool to those of us who enjoy what the whippersnappers now term 'dad rock' (the cheeky rascals), and to those of us of a more metal inclination. But will they ever be cool to the metrosexual set who care for nothing more than slight and obscure references to modernism in their song lyrics - if they deign to listen to songs at all

There's still a distinct whiff of patchouli, jazz cigarettes and dads with unkempt beards who like looking at motorbikes about Tolkien references in songs. Which is good

*Sighs*

You're probably right, Lal.

Garn, is that another gray hair?

I like your 'metrosexual' analogy, and I would suggest that that crowd most likely does not read 'books', as they are a passe' medium. If it cannot be typed in acronyms and monosyllables on a 3 inch keyboard, it is not worth the exertion. There is a lot of 'twit' in 'twitter', after all.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

*Sighs*

You're probably right, Lal.

Garn, is that another gray hair?

I like your 'metrosexual' analogy, and I would suggest that that crowd most likely does not read 'books', as they are a passe' medium. If it cannot be typed in acronyms and monosyllables on a 3 inch keyboard, it is not worth the exertion. There is a lot of 'twit' in 'twitter', after all.

I think to some books are merely handy things from which to steal film plots.

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If bands want to be really cool then they reference someone like JG Ballard or Nabokov or Illuminatus!, not Tolkien, because Tolkien still isn't really what you'd call 'cool' - and that's part of the appeal for many of us

I love you guys. Even though I live in a different universe

*goes to the neighborhood underground in search of the things you're all saying*

Sometimes I wonder, was I born in the wrong continent? My tummy says hell no, but my ears say yea.

Originally Posted by Hakon

One thing I have noticed is that the majority of bands that make Tolkien references or references to mythology(usually Norse)are almost always heavy metal or death metal bands.

Hmm, I never thought of that before. Interesting. It reminds me heavily of Manowar. Does it have any Tolkien references?