Rock Bands and Tolkien (Nightwish and more)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Thanks for the link, Lindale, although it seems the writer misses a trick here:

"Even the controversial Varg [Vikernes] project Burzum used to be known as Uruk-hai after the menacing super-race of orcs."

Burzum is, of course, also an homage to Tolkien. This project is easily my favourite Tolkien-inspired metal.

I would also point out that the rather famous Amon Amarth are unrelated to Tolkien: they just liked the name.

I bought that Nightfall in Middle-earth album a few years ago and found it to be very tiresome. Nightwish I have no opinion of.

[The Might]

Lady Estelyn, could you help me out with renaming the thread so it better suits the topic - something like rock bands & Tolkien or something like that.

And the connection to black metal sounds interesting, would like to know more since I was not aware it existed.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Aye, big influence. There are or were at least eight bands called Sauron.

There's Feanor, Cirith Ungol, Cirith Gorgor, loads of Morgoths, Gandalf, Saruman, Moria; the list goes on. That's just from a 60 second search on metal-archives.

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

I would also point out that the rather famous Amon Amarth are unrelated to Tolkien: they just liked the name.

Quite true. And sometimes I wonder, do those black metallers think they get cooler or something by alluding to one such as Tolkien, who is easily associated with modern epics. I mean, if those metallers allude to something as crass as those horrible Meyer things, they'd get classified as emo/screamo stuff.

I bought that Nightfall in Middle-earth album a few years ago and found it to be very tiresome. Nightwish I have no opinion of.

You break my heart. But what is Burzum? Can you post a link? (Sorry. Am in the ROTC lounge right now, and what I'm doing is illegal surfing )

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Lindale

Quite true. And sometimes I wonder, do those black metallers think they get cooler or something by alluding to one such as Tolkien, who is easily associated with modern epics. I mean, if those metallers allude to something as crass as those horrible Meyer things, they'd get classified as emo/screamo stuff.

Well, I would respectfully point out that Amon Amarth are not exactly black metal. Actually, I know this band quite well, and the bassist and founding member is the Lord of the Rings fan: he suggested the name and the others agreed that it had a nice ring to it.

Also: get.........cooler? Which alternative universe are you living in if you think making Tolkien references increases your 'cool'?

I don't know what Meyer is.

Anyway, as for Blind Guardian: each to their own, and all that. I see why it's popular but it's just not my thing.

Burzum is recognisable, surely, to us all, from the inscription on the Ring of Sauron:

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

It's also the name of one of the most influential black metal projects. Try looking for some Burzum; though you said you don't like growling vocals... how about screams? If not, he does plenty of ambient work too.

[Thinlómien]

There is a Finnish (surprise ) metal band called Battlelore who reference to Tolkien a lot and even dress up as Elves, I think, but I know very little of them. Aganzir could tell you more.

As for Nightwish, I used to like it a lot and I still think some of it is good. I don't like the newer stuff though, especially as I dislike the new (Swedish! ) singer. But then again, I never was familiar with their earliest stuff, which includes most of the ME references. Nightwish is very tolkienish in a way, though, I have never had problems with associating it to Middle-Earth, especially with all this stuff about longing for the sea/ocean.

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Well, I would respectfully point out that Amon Amarth are not exactly black metal. Actually, I know this band quite well, and the bassist and founding member is the Lord of the Rings fan: he suggested the name and the others agreed that it had a nice ring to it.

Also: get.........cooler? Which alternative universe are you living in if you think making Tolkien references increases your 'cool'?

In a universe of emo kids, having references to Tolkien or other literary giants, no matter how remote or lousy, basically does.

I don't know what Meyer is.

Stephanie Meyer. Author of "books" I cannot touch without losing self-respect.

Burzum is recognisable, surely, to us all, from the inscription on the Ring of Sauron:

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

It's also the name of one of the most influential black metal projects. Try looking for some Burzum; though you said you don't like growling vocals... how about screams? If not, he does plenty of ambient work too.

Perhaps my boyfriend knows and even likes it (he likes growling songs). I'll look for it at the underground market, and if it turns out that I can make an exception to my growling-singer rule, I'll do the spoiled-brat route and ask my dad to get a cd.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Lindale

In a universe of emo kids, having references to Tolkien or other literary giants, no matter how remote or lousy, basically does.

Methinks the lady doth overestimate the power of emo.

[Lalwendë]

If bands want to be really cool then they reference someone like JG Ballard or Nabokov or Illuminatus!, not Tolkien, because Tolkien still isn't really what you'd call 'cool' - and that's part of the appeal for many of us

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If bands want to be really cool then they reference someone like JG Ballard or Nabokov or Illuminatus!, not Tolkien, because Tolkien still isn't really what you'd call 'cool' - and that's part of the appeal for many of us

Hmmm...but I think Tolkien transcends coolness/noncoolness in many instances. After all, when Lord of the Rings references appear in lyrics by such Rock Godz as Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath (the song 'Wizard' was inspired by Gandalf, according to the semi-comotose Ozzy Osbourne, and Geezer Butler is an ardent LotR fan), then Tolkien acquires a patina of legitimacy, at least among the 'glitterati' (in the glitter rock sense), but not so the 'literati' (in the constipated academic sense) -- that is where one finds the clearest condemnations of Tolkien.

But then, I think that literary, classical music and art references were de rigeur in the late 60's/early 70's, particularly with English bands. In addition to Led Zep and Sabbath (who also reference HP Lovecraft's 'Beyond the Wall of Sleep'), we have Pink Floyd's 'The Piper at the Gates of Dawn' (from a chapter title in Grahame's 'Wind in the Willows'), Jethro Tull quoting Robert Burns as well as lifting Bach's 'Bouree', King Crimson describing Rembrandt's 'The Night Watch' in song, Emerson, Lake and Palmer revising Mussorgsky's 'Pictures at an Exhibition', and the Beatles citing or referring to Kahil Gibran, Lewis Carroll, Edgar Allan Poe and snippets of King Lear.

This often is derided as pomposity and pretension by critics, but I think it was genuine love of the source material by the bands, and the music plays on long after the pens lie stiff and cold in the critic's rigor-mortised hands. Later on we have The Police referring to Nabokov, The Waterboys doing an absolutely enchanting version of WB Yeats' 'The Stolen Child' and REM rattling off a host of cultural and literary references in 'It's the End of the World as We Know It'.

So, cool or not cool? It's in the eye (or in this case, the ear) of the beholder. But I think the majority of Tolkienites could give a rat's hairy patoot about critics in any case.

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If bands want to be really cool then they reference someone like JG Ballard or Nabokov or Illuminatus!, not Tolkien, because Tolkien still isn't really what you'd call 'cool' - and that's part of the appeal for many of us

I love you guys. Even though I live in a different universe

*goes to the neighborhood underground in search of the things you're all saying*

Sometimes I wonder, was I born in the wrong continent? My tummy says hell no, but my ears say yea.

Originally Posted by Hakon

One thing I have noticed is that the majority of bands that make Tolkien references or references to mythology(usually Norse)are almost always heavy metal or death metal bands.

Hmm, I never thought of that before. Interesting. It reminds me heavily of Manowar. Does it have any Tolkien references?