Numenoreans attacking the Valar

[Lindale]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And don't give me the "but they were Elves" argument. Elves were not necessarily greater warriors than men. Turin for instance, was said to be as agile as any Elf, but stronger, so it's not a given that Elves are faster than men. What probably is a given is that the Numenoreans were bigger and stronger than nearly all the Elves in Valinor.

I knew you'd get that argument.

My point is that, yes these Numenoreans are probably the toughest Men ever, maybe comparable to Turin too, but the Elves of Valinor have an edge, or at least those who were born under the Two Trees. There's this bit with those who survived Helcaraxe great travail must endure before they give up, and those nourished by the Two Trees (or maybe just being in Valinor) had "strength of the ancient world, such as those possessed by those nourished in Valinor."

Now I'm not for arguing about melees or what, but your point with Melian being incarnate before she did her Girdle, I'm sure the Valar can do so too. Did they not raise the Mountains of Valinor when the Noldor went away? Etc.

Anyway, I'm also for opting that this subject is too ambiguous, and that Eru was called by Manwe not because they lacked strength, but because they deemed it best to just approach him for too great a thing for their hands.