Suicide in Middle Earth

[alatar]

Not to make this thread too schizophrenic, but I stumbled upon this:

Originally Posted by Stephen King

For a long time-ten years, at least-I had wanted to write a fantasy epic like The Lord of the Rings, only with an American setting. I just couldn't figure out how to do it. Then, slowly after my wife and kids and I moved to Boulder, Colorado, I saw a 60 Minutes segment on CBW (chemical-biological warfare). I never forgot the gruesome footage of the test mice shuddering, convulsing, and dying, all in twenty seconds or less. That got me remembering a chemical spill in Utah that killed a bunch of sheep (these were canisters on their way to some burial ground; they fell off the truck and ruptured). I remembered a news reporter saying, "If the winds had been blowing the other way, there was Salt Lake City." This incident later served as the basis of a movie called Rage, starring George C. Scott, but before it was released, I was deep into The Stand, finally writing my American fantasy epic, set in a plague-decimated USA. Only instead of a hobbit, my hero was a Texan named Stu Redman, and instead of a Dark Lord, my villain was a ruthless drifter and supernatural madman named Randall Flagg. The land of Mordor ("where the shadows lie, according to Tolkien) was played by Las Vegas.

Guess he missed it by *that* much...

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by alatar

Guess he missed it by *that* much...

Is laughing oneself to death considered suicide?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Stephen King makes Terry Brooks look
like Frank Herbert .

[Bêthberry]

Every time I see this thread title I think of that iconic song, not the cover by Manic Street Preachers or Marilyn Manson, but the theme song from MASH: the movie and the TV show.

Those were definitely not Tolkien moments, though, so this post must be just another schizophrenic comment which muddies al's query about hope and despair.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Miriel (Feanor’s mom) is not condemned for committing suicide

Ah, but that's not really true. In later years, the Wise considered her choice to have been at the root of Everything Bad. Even at the time, Mandos predicts that no good will come of it. Laws & Customs Among the Eldar and its associated texts are pretty hard on Miriel.

It is however the case that 'suicide' for an Elf means something rather different than for a human, as the Elf's life within Arda can never be ended. The fea may be houseless for a time, and confined to Mandos, whether the hroa is physically destroyed or merely 'dies of grief:' but these are 'seeming deaths,' because the Elf never leaves the World.

In fact, since Elves can 'die of grief,' it would seem that 'suicide' by violence isn't even necessary for them; they're capable of 'suicide' by will.

[LadyBrooke]

This might just be me, but the Kings letting go of their lives always seemed to me to be like the chronically ill person who instead of clinging to live by the use of machines and stuff lets themselves die. As somebody who is very sickly (having had meningitis, tubes in her ears due to severe ear infections that cause her ear drums to burst several times and lose of hearing, chronic tonsilitis, born premature, etc.) the distinction is very clear to me that once a person passes a certain point it stops being living and becomes merely existing. I myself have decided that as soon as I am old enough I will have a living will telling everybody to not put me on any machine. Perhaps this seems like suicide to some, but to me it is putting my fate in God’s hands and excepting that I will go when it is my time. While I hesitate to stick words in anybody’s mouth, this may possibly be along the same lines that Tolkien (and by extension the Númenorean Kings) was thinking.

Um, sorry if this isn’t very clear or anything. I’m rather nervous as this is my first post of this website, though I have posted on other websites and have lurked here for a long time.

[Pitchwife]

Actually, you've made your point perfectly clear, and I find your analogy quite convincing. So keep on posting, and welcome in the Afterlife!

[alatar]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

This might just be me, but the Kings letting go of their lives always seemed to me to be like the chronically ill person who instead of clinging to live by the use of machines and stuff lets themselves die. As somebody who is very sickly (having had meningitis, tubes in her ears due to severe ear infections that cause her ear drums to burst several times and lose of hearing, chronic tonsilitis, born premature, etc.) the distinction is very clear to me that once a person passes a certain point it stops being living and becomes merely existing. I myself have decided that as soon as I am old enough I will have a living will telling everybody to not put me on any machine. Perhaps this seems like suicide to some, but to me it is putting my fate in God’s hands and excepting that I will go when it is my time. While I hesitate to stick words in anybody’s mouth, this may possibly be along the same lines that Tolkien (and by extension the Númenorean Kings) was thinking.

LadyBrooke, welcome to the Downs! Sorry for your illness; hope that you have better days.

My father, in his last days of battling advanced cancer, decided to 'let go.' He had had enough, and while his mind was still able, he had his feeding tube removed along with any source of hydration. At the time, though as a biologist I knew better, I hoped that maybe, just maybe he was feeling better, but he wasn't. I explained to my siblings that the countdown clock had started and we would only a few days left together. He made it about five days- a couple of them conscious - and then that was it. Now we wished that he had tried some of the experimental treatments that he was offered, but at the time he had found inconvenient.

Anyway, it all reminds me of the Kings.

Um, sorry if this isn’t very clear or anything. I’m rather nervous as this is my first post of this website, though I have posted on other websites and have lurked here for a long time.

You're doing fine.