Valar / Greek and Roman gods

[Nerwen]

Well... anytime you do want to know something, just ask.

[wispeight]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Well... anytime you do want to know something, just ask.

~~~

The light of kindness from yourself and skip was a mistake, because of the fact that I am going to continue with more of my thoughts

I think that the seemingly unshakeable belief of the gods that Baldr was the epitome of perfection, must have in reality been an accord based on coercion. Loki would not have been able to trick a higher god into killing Baldr if this accord among all the gods was sincere. Even Loki realized that perfection is a state requiring no further experiencing and evolution toward continued upward progress.

Emanation of force and substance which in turn begins its own evolution is done even by humanity, and I'm not only referring to child-birth. But I will refrain from expanding upon this.

If I was to use the Nordic term 'ALL FATHER' and the word perfection, then I would feel the appropriateness of the word.

One way of speaking of the 14 Valars, if I was going to place them on seven grades and the feminine or substance on one side, with the masculine or force on the other, then I would say that these are states or conditions relatively close to each one of us, but then I would have to state the existence of seven more grades above those seven. These latter might be known as Tattwas with the ones closest to us being Lokas.

I'm not trying to be pedantic or impress. When I write things down, I remember them better, so if I do it on a public domain, my logic is that I'm impressing upon myself all the better, that which I'm trying to comprehend.

riddles remind me of spirals. Direct transmission of a concept from one point to another, with departure and arrival seeming to be simultaneous, interferes with the will of an individual.

[Morthoron]

...it's people's games you've got to dodge.

Originally Posted by wispeight

I think that the seemingly unshakeable belief of the gods that Baldr was the epitome of perfection, must have in reality been an accord based on coercion. Loki would not have been able to trick a higher god into killing Baldr if this accord among all the gods was sincere. Even Loki realized that perfection is a state requiring no further experiencing and evolution toward continued upward progress.

Hmmm...but Loki tricked blind Hödr into killing Baldr to circumvent the accord. It does not mean the compact between the gods was insincere; rather, the fact that there was imperfection (as a god without eyesight clearly indicates) even among the Aesir. It is likely that Hödr would not wilfully kill his brother; therefore, it was not the accord but the singular god who was imperfect (physically due to blindness, not morally), and thus Hödr became the dupe by which Loki assassinated Baldr. Also, Hödr and Baldr were reconciled in the end (at least, according to the Prose Edda), and so it would seem that Baldr did not recriminate Hödr for involuntarily breaching the accord.

In any case, the very fact that Baldr had an Achilles' heel (if I may mix pantheonic metaphors) indicates a limit to perfection (which Loki obviously discerned in his malice). And I'm not altogether sure that Loki had some philosophical ideal that mandated an action be taken against the falsity of a perfect state; rather, he was simply malicious. He was the primeval sociopath.

Originally Posted by wispeight

I came to this site because I love the "Lord of the Rings" movies, and watch them everytime they come on tv. I haven't yet seen anyone mention their interpretation of 'Middle Earth' other than the hollow space in this planet. Please, I don't want to hear about the earth being hollow. Perhaps I should start a thread concerning that very question, but then I'd have to oversee it, and don't know if my other activities would allow it. I realize I'm likely being ignorant as it probably already popped-up here and I should have looked.

I realize you stated you weren't trying to be obscurant, but no one here has interpreted Middle-earth to be the hollow space inside this planet; on the contrary, I would think that most folk here (I can't account for any eccentrics) would reply in opposition to such a concept in Tolkien's cosmology. Can you elucidate without the superfluity, please?

[wispeight]

I simply came upon a hesitation toward delving into the interpretation of middle earth on this forum. The reason is not my possessing a low esteem of the members of this forum, but rather the wide spectrum of beliefs. I think that approaching this subject begins to narrow the focus. So, on this one thing, it is probably best for me to just leave 'middle-earth' alone.

When I act from inspiration I'm more confident. There are still so many instances of attraction to matter. For instance, right now I want to go get something to eat, but I also need to go jump in the shower. I just got home from work not too long ago. I'm going to take the shower first. It is not exactly divine inspiration involved in this choice.

I suspect that the indictment of Loki being a primeval sociopath includes manas and mahat. All three refer to mind. Mahat of course is more than mind in that it is cosmic. The story of Loki is about the mind of man choosing to be in accord with the divine, with so very many opportunities to be inurred within temptation, making dreadful decisions or choices. Perhaps one insight on the manifestation in matter, relying on mind, is a necessity worthy of enduring in order to become always aspiring gods of ever increasing perfection. Perhaps we are already gods, but not while we are down here being humans. That is kind of a cool way to look at things.

Watch waterfalls of pity roar
You feel to moan but unlike before

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by wispeight

I simply came upon a hesitation toward delving into the interpretation of middle earth on this forum. The reason is not my possessing a low esteem of the members of this forum, but rather the wide spectrum of beliefs. I think that approaching this subject begins to narrow the focus. So, on this one thing, it is probably best for me to just leave 'middle-earth alone'.

Look, wispeight, you're really going to have to work harder at communicating with us plebs.

Again, what do you mean by "interpretation of Middle-earth"? Are you asking what or where it is supposed to be?

Or do you wish to discuss possible symbolism in the story?

Either way, the fact that nobody else happens to be talking about what you're interested in at a given time doesn't mean it's a forbidden topic. Why not start a thread?

[wispeight]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Look, wispeight, you're really going to have to work harder at communicating with us plebs.

Again, what do you mean by "interpretation of Middle-earth"? Are you asking what or where it is supposed to be?

Or do you wish to discuss possible symbolism in the story?

Either way, the fact that nobody else happens to be talking about what you're interested in at a given time doesn't mean it's a forbidden topic. Why not start a thread?

~~~

I've been obtuse and pretentious to the point where I've made 'myself' sick. So I don't even want to imagine how I reflected onto others here. So I will come clean. For at least two decades, I've come across the phrase 'middle-earth' more times than I can count. I hesitate to say that I finally know what it means, because that indicates conclusion.

An acceptable explanation I've come across, happened because I became thoroughly fascinated with Theosophy. I suppose sharing the explanation for the phrase would not be considered proselytizing, but I would have preferred nonetheless that someone else jumped in with the explanation.

Did anyone notice that I still didn't cough it up? I'm bad.

You discover
That you'd just be
One more person crying

[Morthoron]

'Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their marks
Made everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
It's easy to see without looking too far
That not much
Is really sacred.'

Since this thread has passed the point of obnubilation, I might as well reply lyrically.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by wispeight

~~~
Did anyone notice that I still didn't cough it up? I'm bad.

That, I think is painfully clear to all of us who have read your verbose, obscure and ultimately pointless posts. So why don't you? You feel better afterwards. After all, this is a forum where we discuss ideas.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by wispeight

I simply came upon a hesitation toward delving into the interpretation of middle earth on this forum.

Isn't that all we do here? Or do you have in mind something more specific?

EDIT: Oh, I guess you do. I should have read thoroughly first.