The Good and The Bad - a Quick Look at the Movies

[Mithalwen]

I can say whole heartedly that I loved just about all the costumes, sets and props. These I felt were designed by people who loved the book deeply. I went to see the exhibition when it came to the Science Museum in London and it was just fabulous - particularly Galadriel's dress and Boromir's funeral boat. I would have liked Lothlorien to be a bit more golden and less trippy but ..I would have liked more Lorien and less cave troll ....

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I can say whole heartedly that I loved just about all the costumes, sets and props. These I felt were designed by people who loved the book deeply. I went to see the exhibition when it came to the Science Museum in London and it was just fabulous - particularly Galadriel's dress and Boromir's funeral boat.

Oh yes, the costumes. Amazing.

[ArathornJax]

since we are discussing a film adaptation I think we have to say that Howard Shore's score has to goo in the Good.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

since we are discussing a film adaptation I think we have to say that Howard Shore's score has to goo in the Good.

We have said this, I just forgot to add it to the long list, for this is one of the greatest things about the films- here is the updated list!

THE GOOD (Changes, also those scenes which stuck nicely with the book)

* The Music by Howard Shore.
* The Prologue. Nicely done, although the geography itself poses a problem for a later scene.
* Gandalf's entrance. McKellen as Gandalf was a great choice. Although some don't care for Frodo's entrance, I think that it worked nicely with Gandalf's, and gives the viewers a decent introduction to the two main characters.
* Gandalf's meeting with Bilbo.
* A Long Expected Party
* The Hobbits. They look like Hobbits should and would look.
* In the EE, we see the flight of the Wood Elves. I love this scene. A great nod to the meeting the Hobbits had with them.
* The Wizard Fight. This is one of the changes PJ made that I actually like, and I think it fits very nicely within Tolkien's world.
* The Nazgul. In my opinion, PJ succeeds in making you feel fear when the Black Riders approach.
* The Prancing Pony. Although I'm not sure how I feel about Frodo's magnetic finger trick, the P.P. scene is definitely kosher with Tolkien. The whole medieval feel of the inn completely does it for me here. Great lighting and everything. A nice nod at the book when you see Bill Ferny and his goons glaring at the Hobbits.
* Aragorn. Good entrance, and although nowadays Viggo would not have been my first choice, I think he pulled the role off nicely.
* The Ranger sword. This was recently debated in a topic here, but I don't see any harm in giving Strider a sword that is actually functional compared with a sword that is broken.
* The Three Trolls. Gives us book fans comfort and joy!
* Scene at the Ford. I have mixed feeling about the actual Flight to the Ford, including Arwen's appearance, but I don't think that it was necessarily bad. It wasn't good, though. I liked the water horses in the actual Ford.
* Many Meetings. You have to like the golden calm of Rivendell...beautiful.
* Arwen and Elrond. Looking good.
* (Strictly appearance wise) Legolas and Gimli fit the part. Bean as Boromir did not, and we will get to that later. I get touchy on this subject! We are talking strictly appearance right now.
* Aragorn and Arwen in the blue twilight. I think this is a great scene, and it plants those important seeds that need to be sown in order to show the people the relationship of A & A. Not to mention, great lighting in this scene. Love the blue.
* "I will take it! Though I do not know the way." I love the way Frodo delivers these lines. It makes for a powerful moment indeed.
* The Ring Goes South. I will get to the bad changes made here, but there are some good elements here which stuck to Tolkien, such as the scenery. I like the choice for Hollin.
* Caradhras. Mixed feelings, it should have been done better and elaborated more. Still, it wasn't that bad compared to some other things. Having Legolas walk on the snow was a major plus and adds to the good of this scene.
* "Knock your head against these doors Peregrin Took...!" I like how they added this (I think it's in the EE) because it shows Gandalf's short temper, especially when it comes to Pip.
* Boromir and Aragorn attempting to slay the Watcher...shows their bravery, rather than just Sam's (as in the book).
* Moria. Was done very well. Of course, as with every part of the story, could have been elaborated more, but looking at what we were given - pretty good. I was glad to see Pippin's folly, although I don't understand why he couldn't have just actually thrown a stone instead of a whole skeleton.
* Pippin putting the final blow into the cave troll. A nice nod to Pippin's grand deed of slaying a troll during the Battle at the Black Gate.
* Gandalf's fall. Nice.
* The scenery of Lothlorien.
* Galadriel. I think Cate was a wise choice. I don't know if it's just me, but after seeing Cate as Galadriel she (Cate) is wayyyy hotter.
* The Mirror of Galadriel. Done well, along with G's temptation.
* The gift scene was nice, although I think it complete rubbish that they didn't show Boromir get his gift of a golden belt.
* The Great River and the Argonaths. Could have elaborated much more, though.
* The Breaking of the Fellowship. The attempt to take the Ring, although I would have done things differently, was nicely done.
* Boromir's death scene. Again, I would have done it a bit differently, but it was done well. It showed Boromir's valiant and heroic nature as he attempted to save M & P.
* The Departure of Boromir. I'm glad they showed his funeral boat going down the Falls of Rauros.
* Aragorn slaying Lurtz. You have to admit, it feels great when he beheads him.
* Frodo and Sam. Done well, especially Frodo thinking of Gandalf's words.
* "Let's hunt some orc." Delivered nicely by Viggo and set up for an optimistic future.

[Sauron the White]

Regarding the physical appearance of Boromir ...... It really matters little if an actors hair color does not quite match... brown or black ... or if a beard is there or not ... or a silver tipped horn or gold ..... unless of course that is a crucial detail that the film hinges on and none of those things did in FOTR.

I notice that last night the American Film Institute named FOTR the #2 Best Fantasy film of all time edged out by WIZARD OF OZ. They made a huge change in that film that completely angered book Oz fans when they changed the color of the silver slippers to ruby slippers simply to show off the visual wonders of the new Technicolor process against the yellow brick road. Now there was something crucial and important but it worked beautifully on screen.

The main thing with Boromir is that the character came of much more likable on screen that he did in the book and for film viewers that is very much a positive asset.

As far as the Moria stairs go ........ I loved them. Great set design and it gave an opportunity for some interesting heroics. That entire Moria sequence is still one of my favorite stretches in all three films and the stairs play a big visual part in that.

[Macalaure]

I have to agree with StW here, if we only judge which changes were good and/or worked and which didn't, then the change of Boromir's appearance indeed affected the film neither positively or negatively (at least he wore pants ). I believe the only reason for this change was to have even little children - and teens and adults with the attention span of little children - be able to distinguish Boromir and Aragorn.

I hate to say it, but making Boromir more likeable and identifiable with was probably a change to the better. Personally, I would have very much preferred Boromir as he should be.

The stairs scene on the other hand, yes, it was exciting to watch, but it made no sense - and not only once you start thinking about it afterwards, but right away when you watch it for the first time. And it took screen time away from things that would have made sense, Gandalf's early confrontation with the balrog along with the destruction of the Chamber of Mazarbul, for example.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Regarding the physical appearance of Boromir ...... It really matters little if an actors hair color does not quite match... brown or black ... or if a beard is there or not ... or a silver tipped horn or gold ..... unless of course that is a crucial detail that the film hinges on and none of those things did in FOTR.

I disagree. I think that if Tolkien gave one of the most detailed descriptions of a character we get in FotR, PJ should have adhered to them. There's no reason why he shouldn't have. The whole distinguishing thing is rubbish, in my opinion, and I've heard that was his reasoning. When I see PJ's Boromir, I don't see Book Boromir. They are totally different in my opinion, appearance wise and personality wise, but I don't want to get into that. My point is, with a character like Pippin, for example, I can honestly say I am pleased with PJ's Pip and I think PJ did a great job with translating Pippin from book to movie. He's a believable translation. PJ's Boromir on the other hand...eh.

I really don't want to get into a whirlwind of arguments over this again...so to save all of that, let's just agree to disagree!

[Sauron the White]

Matthew - perhaps one reason for your strong opinion is that Boromir is your favorite character from the book. We tend to feel more strongly about what is closer to our hearts. You praise the Pippin in the movie but that is something you do not feel asstrongly about as you did Boromir. Changes in the depiction of the character from page to screen would most likely not impact you as hard as Boromir.

When I see PJ's Boromir, I don't see Book Boromir. They are totally different in my opinion, appearance wise and personality wise, but I don't want to get into that.

People do not like it when I say this, but its true just the same - the reason you do not see Book Boromir in the movies is because its the movie and not the book. I do not mean that in a wiseguy sort of way - its just the simple reality that a book and a movie are two different things with two different masters to serve.

Lets face it - the Dorothy Gale in the book WIZARD OF OZ was clearly not the same character in the movie. The character of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA was not the one his own brother knew from real life. They were not meant to be. They were characters which worked on the screen within the world they inhabited on the silver screen. The characters in the book- regardless if real or imaginary - do not have to have all the same qualities, characteristics, and components of what works in a book.