Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Brinniel]

Yes Lommy, but just because a lot of people suspect you, it doesn't mean there isn't a good reason behind it. You may see it as "weak grounds," but others don't. And anyways, I have a good reason to comment because the last time someone questioned me for suspecting them, they turned out to be a wolf...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Yes Lommy, but just because a lot of people suspect you, it doesn't mean there isn't a good reason behind it. You may see it as "weak grounds," but others don't. And anyways, I have a good reason to comment because the last time someone questioned me for suspecting them, they turned out to be a wolf...

If there's a good reason, please point it out to me. I can't see such.

Besides, many of you aren't giving almost any grounds at all. (I give you the credit that you have at least raised a few actual points against me.) How on earth am I supposed to prove my innocence if no one gives a reason why they suspect me, or if their reasons are silly or irrational?

I just can't see why you all suspect me. Some of you say that there's a different feel to me and that's all you say - but what can I reply to that? It is the thing that makes me most baffled, because there should be no different feel to me as I have not changed my playing style and I'm not a wolf. So, do some of you have an over-active imagination, do you misjudge me or are you wolves (or innocents ) surfing on the current tide of suspicion in order to look better? That's what I'm trying to find out...

And as for questioning someone's suspicion for oneself should be a basic human right, not a mark of wolvish behaviour....

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If there's a good reason, please point it out to me. I can't see such.

Besides, many of you aren't giving almost any grounds at all. (I give you the credit that you have at least raised a few actual points against me.) How on earth am I supposed to prove my innocence if no one gives a reason why they suspect me, or if their reasons are silly or irrational?

I just can't see why you all suspect me. Some of you say that there's a different feel to me and that's all you say - but what can I reply to that? It is the thing that makes me most baffled, because there should be no different feel to me as I have not changed my playing style and I'm not a wolf. So, do some of you have an over-active imagination, do you misjudge me or are you wolves (or innocents ) surfing on the current tide of suspicion in order to look better? That's what I'm trying to find out...

And as for questioning someone's suspicion for oneself should be a basic human right, not a mark of wolvish behaviour....

Lommy my concern is your use of punctuation...definately wolfish, not to mention you smiley or not so smiley faces.

Seriously though, part of the reason I suspect you is your insatiable desire to continually 'prove' your innocence. I've played many games with you and often times find you suspicious but this time I find you suspicious for different reasons. You do have a different vibe to you almost as if you changed roles...

[Lalaith]

Ok, here's why I think Lommy is a wolf.

There are players I have difficulty getting a 'feel' for. Kath, for example, and Durelin (although having said that I did spot wolf-Durelin last time I played).
But I do think I have a handle on Lommy, as it were, and every time I've played with Lommy before I've trusted her, and every time she's been innocent. (I think!)

But this time she feels all wrong. Her participation in the debate yesterday for example: the confusion seemed fabricated, as did the refusing to acknowledge that Rikae might be the EW.
Her last post "don't scry me please" yesterday sounded like a bid to make the GW think she (Lommy) was the EW rather than Rikae.
And the whole Aganzir/Lommy routine reminded me of Roa/Valier in the last DW.

There's some hard evidence there but it's mostly instinct and thus not as convincing to the rest of you as it could be. And of course I could be quite wrong. But there you have it.

[Lalaith]

Oi! You wizards! Play nice!

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Oi! You wizards! Play nice!

Yeah! You tell them!

Owww! That hurt!

[Thinlómien]

Alright.

Lalaith - flies straight to the over-active imagination or (either deliberately or accidentally) misjudging me category.

morm - First off, thanks for explaining.

Originally Posted by morm

Seriously though, part of the reason I suspect you is your insatiable desire to continually 'prove' your innocence. I've played many games with you and often times find you suspicious but this time I find you suspicious for different reasons. You do have a different vibe to you almost as if you changed roles...

Care to elaborate/ give example? I don't get what you mean by this.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

morm - First off, thanks for explaining. Care to elaborate/ give example? I don't get what you mean by this.

I've decided to switch off my targetting computer, as it were

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kenobi

Use the Force, Morm. Let go, Morm. Morm, trust me.

No other explination than the general feel and that, at least from me, is something you will have to live with and honestly you are not gaining points in my mind. If I were the seer I would dream of you or Lal.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lommy

If there's a good reason, please point it out to me. I can't see such.

Besides, many of you aren't giving almost any grounds at all.

I thought I already pointed out my reasons earlier toDay. Though I should also mention, your very defensive nature and that you keep saying "I don't understand why everyone finds me suspicious!" is odd in itself. If those aren't good enough reasons for you, I'm sorry.

[Eönwë]

Ok, my vote is obvious

++Nilpaurion Felagund

edit: Go Da Bandwaggon! *looks at tp sideways*

x-ed with Sally onwards

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ok, my vote is obvious

++Nilpaurion Felagund

edit: Go Da Bandwaggon! *looks at tp sideways*

x-ed with Sally onwards

Sad part is, we know that the wolves are just going to pop right on in along with us.

Best we can do though. Need to catch the wolves one way or another.


EDIT: x'd with master morm, who is happily more talkative today (or I'm just paying him more attention than usual)

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Though I should also mention, your very defensive nature and that you keep saying "I don't understand why everyone finds me suspicious!" is odd in itself. If those aren't good enough reasons for you, I'm sorry.

You ought to be sorry. I'm defensive because I see there's a lot of suspicion against me and I do not plan to spend whole toMorrow debating about my innocence or the lack of it, so I'm hoping to get some of that done toDay. It seems it's not helping. And I would not repeat my statement of not understanding/ being baffled if you guys weren't bringing it up. And besides, the thing I'm mostly thinking about right now is why on earth you all suspect me and does that makes you wolves and if yes, who. May very well be a waste of time but as it's so silent otherwise and people keep bringing odd/silly/feeling-based (ie odd since they should not be having those feelings) points against me.

I'm willing to move to any other topic but a lot of discussion just seems to be revolving around me (partly my fault, I know), so I prefer to take part in it, not just stand by.


edit: xed with everybody since my last post

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I'm willing to move to any other topic but a lot of discussion just seems to be revolving around me (partly my fault, I know), so I prefer to take part in it, not just stand by.

Partly your fault? I dare say almost wholly your fault. By no means are you a serious lynch candidate today and yet you insist on proclaiming your innocence. You act as though tomorrow you will be the center of discussion which lends itself well to my thought that you are feeling a bit edgy right now. You wolves got a bit overly confident and now you are seeing the village make a good run. You are losing another of your mates tonight and your precious EW will be dead soon enough and we will have a seer to boot! I would say you are not in a pretty spot and you are feeling the heat.

[Thinlómien]

Ok, morm remains in the could be either category. But that lack of explanation was slightly suspicious, it looked like you had no reason to say it in the first place.


edit: xed once again, with everybody

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Yeah! You tell them!

Owww! That hurt!

I second (or is it third? Heh I don't know. anyway....) Play nice children.

And by the way, I think you (Rikae) and Mac have been having a streak of bad luck. I remember another game where you were a wolf and....well, the poor fellow. But all's fair in love and Werewolf.

Originally Posted by mormegil

Perhaps Nog might clarify but I don't really see that we should be talking to dead people about the game it really does affect the integrity of the whole thing.

Clarification: Di was going to text me with the lynch since I won't be around at Day's end, nothing more. But since it's pretty obvious who's dying, she pretty much won't need to. I'd tell her via IM, but she wasn't on at the time.



I've still had fun, although since so much is out in the open now, it kind of kills it. No offense, but I'll be kind of happy when the wizards are dead and we get to do things ourselves. *violent Sally is not at all violent, oh no, not me*

[Isabellkya]

Roa, I don't see how that is considered correcting yourself. When it seems to be, it is being corrected with most likely incorrect information. I still say there are only three wolves right now - not four.
In response to why I voted you - the first day, as I said it was part random/suspicion. Out of the people whom stuck out most in my head, I felt comfortable in voting for you. I do believe I answered this question pages and pages ago, when Brin had wondered about it.
The second day - it was either between you or phantom, you'd both been arguing against each other for two Days in a row. I didn't think it wise to let it alone and see if you'd work it out between yourselves. It was too much distraction for the villag

Ohkay.. this is mostly based upon yesterDay.

Greenie: I think she innocentish, but I wouldn't be surprised if she was a wolf.

Shasta: I would like to think him innocent, as he sometimes makes good points; though he does seem to have quite a number of joking/banter posts. Though again, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a furry creature whispering in his ear at night.

Lommy: Furry. She makes good points, however she did quite the waffling act yesterDay. It seemed she went from Rikae's side to the phantom/Diamond side.. slowly and reluctantly throughout the course of the Day. It gave me the feel of someone abandoning a fool-sinking ship, but trying to keep their dignity along with it.

Nilp: He has said some odd things, and until he pretty much revealed himself as having fur; I wouldn't know what to say.

Eonwe: In the I don't know realm.

Kath: Again, in the I don't know realm.

Sally: She seems innocent enough to me, though there is quite a lot of silliness. I think there is more of that, than there are of actual suspicions and directly related ww discussion.

Rikae: She is up to causing as much trouble as she can, which is fun to watch.

phantom: I find his actions suspicious. How he decides to pull his strings is annoying.

Lhuna: Realm of I am not sure.

Durelin: I would like to think innocent.

Roa: Furry. She makes good points, but she tends to contradict herself a bit, or atleast hold double standards. In the span of six posts yesterDay, she went from 'not convinced' to 'convinced'. She seemed to expect others to consider all of the possiblities, yet did not seem to do the same herself.

Brin: I think she innocent with maybe a wolf gene lying dormant.

Legate: I think he is a mutated wolf-innocent. Half his body is wolf, the other is villager. He has some good points, though him trying to "save" Ag in the beginning still bothers me. Though he did have some good comments yesterDay.

Lalaith: Up until the later end of yesterDay, it seemed she was asking Roa a whole lot of questions concerning what the EW would do. The EW seemed to be more of the focus, rather than anything else. Though I do feel a bit better about her toDay.

Morm: He does some odd things. I think innocent, but if turned out furry - I wouldn't be surprised.

Celuien: No idea.

Gwath: His actions can be questionable at times, but I think his intentions are there. Whether good or not, I'm leaning towards innocent.

McCaber: His voting pattern is highly questionable. Other than that, meh.


Granted, that my initial read-through of pages 20-24, I'd been clouded with the knowledge of knowing about the reveals and Cailin's wolfness.


X'd since Lalaith's #1174.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Roa: Furry. She makes good points, but she tends to contradict herself a bit, or atleast hold double standards. In the span of six posts yesterDay, she went from 'not convinced' to 'convinced'. She seemed to expect others to consider all of the possiblities, yet did not seem to do the same herself.

Oh, yeah. I've always had an odd feeling about her (since the beginning of this game).

edit: when you post here, you alwayd x. So why bother write who with? You'll only miss the next 10 posts.

[Lalaith]

phantom: I find his actions suspicious

Izzy: Rikae says phantom is the GW. Phantom says he is the GW. Are you saying you think he might not be?

[Roa_Aoife]

Last minute check in. I'll have to be leaving shortly.

Durelin, I share the sentiments about lists and phantom.

Originally Posted by Lommy

We can't all be Roas when it comes to analysing...

That gave me warm fuzzies.

Originally Posted by Lommy

As for Rikae, I think she's saying she's the EW to make us think that she's actually a wolf and lynch her. I bow low before her if she's really a wolf (who is trple or four-fold bluffing?), because that would be quite genious.

I've been thinking she was pressing that rather hard as well.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Surely that's not that bad? It simply means it's easier for us to guess whom she has picked.

Depends on how long that list is- she can only turn so many.


Morm is bugging me, alot. (Not in an annoying manner, but more in a "something's up" manner.) He keeps saying that certain people are suspicious, and yet never says why (not only Lommy). It makes me wonder if he's avoiding giving his reasons so that he can avoid committing to an opinion. Or perhaps he's not very good at manufacturing suspicion, and so is avoiding trying. Stop acting so sneaky and give a reason, morm.

Originally Posted by Lal

Here's why Roa worries me:

I know her to be an extremely strong and loyal team player. When I was the Seer and was in trouble, in the Werepenguins game, she stood over me like an anxious Valkyrie. Her performance yesterday, after Rikae ran off, reminded a bit of that. She stayed around, she seemed to be joining the debate, but basically I got the feeling she was trying to prove that Rikae was telling the truth. Like a loyal press secretary, left in the lurch by her CEO at an Enron press conference.

I don't know, maybe I was imagining it, but that's what it felt like.

Firstly, thank you for the wonderful comparison to a Valkyrie. It really made my day. Secondly, as I responded to Izzie, I was one of the first people to doubt Rikae. I never suggested we should believe her. It was more that I was going against phantom than for Rikae. Because I didn't trust him. Even now, I'm really dragging my feet about him. Nilp is obviously evil. Phantom seems quite confidant in his position. Just something about his behavior irks me. I didn't trust Rikae, but I didn't trust phantom more.

Originally Posted by Celuien

And also suspicious for initially trusting evil-Rikae's GW impersonation yesterday.

Is anyone even really reading my posts from yesterDay? I NEVER put my trust in Rikae. I was one of the first to question her. Yes, I voted Legate, and I clearly explained why, which had nothing to do with trusting Rikae, but everything to do with testing her. Who started this idea?

Brin, I was trying to come up with all of the possibilities, because too many people were just making assumptions. I was also expressing doubt in a way that might coax her into an answer. Since no onne had yet contradicted her, I had very little reason to doubt, but a lot of reason to wonder and be confused. Questions that appear open garner more with more info than direct "I don't trust you" statements. And I was also driven by the fact that phantom, whom I had been suspicious of since Day 1, was dead set against her, with what looked to me to be the flimsy reasoning of a supposed connection that we couldn't be sure existed.

Eonwe, just ignore Rikae. She's trying to confuse/bait us.

Isabelkya: Yet you only discussed phantom on both Day 1 and 2. And yes, I can start out unconvinced of something before I am convinced. I certainly can't be convinced right away, that would be silly. But what exactly was I convinced about, and can you show me where? Or are you just going along with general and flawed consensus that I trusted Rikae... well, ever?

Lal: Someone we clearly know is evil is saying something about someone else, and you believe her?

Okay back to the classroom!

[Isabellkya]

++Nilp

Lalaith - he has lied or atleast bent the truth on a number of matters. Do I trust in everything he says 100%? No. Do I believe he has atleast some good intentions, and that there may be truth in what he says - sometimes, yes. He did prove to be atleast a bit trust worthy with giving us Cailin and Nilp (whom we shall see.)



X'd with Roa.

[A Little Green]

One quick thing that caught my attention. Izzie's analysis was slightly eyebrow-raising. It was pretty much go-with-the-flow -stuff (or else she just thinks about nearly everything in the same way with most of the village, but her phrasing seemed fishy), with a lot of those "Looks innocent, but I wouldn't be surprised if furry" -comments. Overall, the post looked somehow too forced to be genuine.

Not much else to say... I don't think I'll post any more toDay, so good Night dearies and I hope to see you toMorrow. Sweet dreams.


EDIT: x-ed with Izzie

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Shasta: I would like to think him innocent, as he sometimes makes good points; though he does seem to have quite a number of joking/banter posts. Though again, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a furry creature whispering in his ear at night.

Lommy: Furry. She makes good points, however she did quite the waffling act yesterDay. It seemed she went from Rikae's side to the phantom/Diamond side.. slowly and reluctantly throughout the course of the Day. It gave me the feel of someone abandoning a fool-sinking ship, but trying to keep their dignity along with it.

Roa: Furry. She makes good points, but she tends to contradict herself a bit, or atleast hold double standards. In the span of six posts yesterDay, she went from 'not convinced' to 'convinced'. She seemed to expect others to consider all of the possiblities, yet did not seem to do the same herself.

Lalaith: Up until the later end of yesterDay, it seemed she was asking Roa a whole lot of questions concerning what the EW would do. The EW seemed to be more of the focus, rather than anything else. Though I do feel a bit better about her toDay.

Morm: He does some odd things. I think innocent, but if turned out furry - I wouldn't be surprised.

I hope I'm not stating the obvious too much.

These are the people Isabellkya was most suspicious of yesterDay, according to her suspicion-list. It is possible that the wolves saw something here they didn't like, and so silenced Isabellkya. It is equally possible that they intended to frame someone Isabellkya found suspicious by killing her.

I'll post again in the morning before I go to work; I haven't the slightest idea how I'll vote yet. The past couple of days have drained all my independent thoughts and suspicions, and made me dependent on the instructions of wizards and gifteds and things. I'm going to have to relearn the art of actually suspecting people.