Dueling Wizards Werewolf II discussion thread

[the phantom]

Well, of course I'd like the cutoff to be around 5 or 6 AM GMT (12 or 1 AM my time), but seeing as that probably won't work for many (including Sir Nog) I will cast a vote for the latest time offered up- 11 PM GMT.

1) Mac and Rikae, may I be your son?

2) Anyone want to be my brother or sister?

3) Hmmm... marriage is a big step. I think I'd prefer to be engaged first, and see how that goes. Would anyone like to be a fiance rather than a wife?

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by the phantom

2) Anyone want to be my brother or sister?

I'll be your sister.

I might have to live out in the shed in secret though if your adoptive parents only wanted one child. You know, a son to do the chores.

[Thinlómien]

Diamond joined too! Yay!

Originally Posted by Mac

Hey! I always wanted a little sister.

Great.

You know, everybody, this is looking awesome. This game just can't be bad.

Concerning the rules, then. I'm just checking, but isn't it so that when the wizards die, the game setting is fixed and the wolves will be told one another's identities and it becomes a regular werewolf game?

What happens if one wizard scries the another? Is it so that in that case she learns his identity?

And if they scry the same person, s/he dies. Right?

Also, I think there was two wolf kills per Night in the beginning of the last game. Will it be so again? If yes, how long will it last?

When the GW (or EW, for that matter) has reached their minion quota, how will their scryings affect things? In no way, except that they can find the other wizard? If we give the EW no limit in how many wolves he can have, I suggest that when the GW has reached the gifted limit, her scryings may count as ranger protections.

What happens if the wolves attack a wizard during the Night? No kill? Will the wolves or the EW know that they targeted the GW (as they probably won't target the EW if he's the one to have the last word on the kill)? What if the hunter decides to take down a wizard? Nothing? But then everybody will know that the hunter targeted a wizard... If the hunter targets the EW could the GW be told about this, thus compensating for the lack of hunter-kill? Or will wolves and/or hunters get a second chance if the one they want to kill is unkillable?

Everybody new to the DW, feel free to ask me to elaborate, I'm not sure I explained it newcomer-friendly. Also, pester Noggie with questions: if I didn't know anything about DW, his explanation might leave me uninformed about quite a lot of facts...

[Nogrod]

Great to see you Diamond! I've added you to the list and let's hear what Rikae and Mac will think about you joining the family or whether you should stay as an "outsider" what comes to the families...

And good to see someone making the tough questions! *cheers Lommy*

Originally Posted by Lommy

isn't it so that when the wizards die, the game setting is fixed and the wolves will be told one another's identities and it becomes a regular werewolf game?

Exactly.

What happens if one wizard scries the another? Is it so that in that case she learns his identity?

Yes. And basically either wizard can decide when to challenge the other one into a duel after she has learned the identity of the other one. That duel will take place only during a Day and will end up in both of the wizards dying.

And if they scry the same person, s/he dies. Right?

After all those lengthy discussions I'd be inclined to say yes. That's the simplest solution. Too much magic on one person in one Night... There will be a special arrangement on Night1 though when both wizards will produce a list of six to the mod(s) from which the minions will be dealt to them randomly (looking that neither wizard gets to know the identity of the other one) and from which the GW can then deal the gifts according to her will.

Also, I think there was two wolf kills per Night in the beginning of the last game. Will it be so again? If yes, how long will it last?

Now you made a tough one. I had thought of this before but I don't know yet. There is a sense why a larger wolf-party should have more kills but where to set the limit? I'd say three wolves will not have more than one kill but maybe four could - or am I just being too careful? In the end the village will have 20+ players so we need to get people killed as well - as nasty as that is for anyone getting killed too early.

Your two last questions are too hard - and they have been discussed extensively with multiple argued positions this far - so let me gather my thoughts and answer them in preliminary way in a moment...

And throw in your two cents everyone!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

There is a sense why a larger wolf-party should have more kills but where to set the limit? I'd say three wolves will not have more than one kill but maybe four could - or am I just being too careful? In the end the village will have 20+ players so we need to get people killed as well - as nasty as that is for anyone getting killed too early.

I think it's not about the amount of wolves, but rather about the amount of villagers in total. The game will last for ages (it's going to be a long game in any case, I know) if we have 25 or more players and only one kill per Night. Maybe something like the wolves have two kills until the village reaches a certain size? What is "certain size", that can be debated. 18 villagers? 16? 15? More? Less? Personally, I think 15 or 16 would be good as that would be the size of normal big-ish village.

[Thinlómien]

In the previous game, there was a limit that the GW could only name one seer, one ranger and one hunter. Will there be such a limit again? I know you haven't decided how many gifteds there can be in total, but will there be some sort of ratios, like one third of them should be of each kind or will you let the GW decide what kind of giteds she wants? Or will you let her decide freely, but set some limits, like "there must be one gifted of each kind all the time, the rest can be whatever" or "there can only be two seers at most at a time"?

[Lalaith]

I think a good way of redressing the balance might be to allow the GW to 'regift' each role once. (I mean if the original holder is killed)
What do you reckon?
Oh and if The Ka is still playing I'd love her to join my family in honour of our mutual love of a certain band...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I think it's not about the amount of wolves, but rather about the amount of villagers in total.The game will last for ages (it's going to be a long game in any case, I know) if we have 25 or more players and only one kill per Night,

Game-mechanicswise that's exactly the point. But thinking about the setting as a story it would be more credible to tie that number of kills to the number of wolves and not to the number of villagers.

I think we have two possibilities.

Either we say that when there are three wolves or more there will be two kills / Night (and maybe when there are five wolves then three kills?).

Or either we say that if there are more than three wolves they gain two kills / Night (and with six three?).

It's an important decision as it will decide how many kills the wolves can make in the beginning of the game.

I need to go back and check the settings in the original game to consult them.

But now there will be Finland - USA in the ice hockey world championships and I will watch the game first...

EDIT: tried to make myself more clear with underlining & bolding

[Kath]

Um, Nog, aren't your two possibilities the same? Or are you saying that either a) two kills if there are three wolves, or b) two kills if there are more than three wolves?

[Nogrod]

Just preliminary thoughts to hard questions... and I'd like to hear your response to these!

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

When the GW (or EW, for that matter) has reached their minion quota, how will their scryings affect things? In no way, except that they can find the other wizard? If we give the EW no limit in how many wolves he can have, I suggest that when the GW has reached the gifted limit, her scryings may count as ranger protections.

This "scry protection" could be one of the things the wizard might do (for only that particular Night though!). The second one would be something like scouting thing eg. kind of seer / anti-scrying for both of the wizards. The wizard would have to decide what to do.

Now it should be also remembered that it will not be probable these situations occur in the actual game very often.

Possibility 1)
I might be drawn into introducing a limit to the scries. Let's say 1/3 of the village for the EW and 1/4 to the GW (and not more than two seers, really).

If the EW gets everything right and luck favours her she will get the sixth wolf on Day4. Then the total of villagers will be about -6 from the starting line-up. So from 30 it will be 24/6, from 25 it will be 19/6 (1/3 being 18/6). But it's not probable the EW will get everything her way...

Does that sound reasonable to you?

Possibility 2)
The other way to handle this would be limiting the GW to three gifteds (one each) which could be re-scried when one of them dies or is lost - and then the EW would also have a limit- and a tighter one than in the first version - like 1/4?


The difference is how many special-roles we wish to have: more or less? The first version produces more special roles and the second less.


Possibility 3)
Or should we give the EW unlimited scries? In the last game the villagers killed a wolf almost every Day but still lost... I think that is a major handicap - although the evil-team played well indeed and Roa was just magnificient.


Anyway when the game starts it will be a different matter depending on how people play and how the wizards / specials succeed.

What happens if the wolves attack a wizard during the Night? No kill? Will the wolves or the EW know that they targeted the GW (as they probably won't target the EW if he's the one to have the last word on the kill)?

There will be no kill but the identity of the good wizard will be revealed to the EW. It's up to her whether she wishes to pass that knowledge to her minions or not. The wolves are not able to target the EW as she can override their suggestions.

What if the hunter decides to take down a wizard? Nothing? But then everybody will know that the hunter targeted a wizard... If the hunter targets the EW could the GW be told about this, thus compensating for the lack of hunter-kill?

Well, a hunter can't kill a wizard. A wizard can be killed only by another wizard. The fact that everyone knows the hunter targeted a wizard maybe no problem as it doesn't give security to anyone's guesses whom it might have been. But I like the idea that the GW would learn the EW's identity in that occasion. Which yet again is not the most probable thing happening is this large village...

Or will wolves and/or hunters get a second chance if the one they want to kill is unkillable?

Nope. Unless their master knows it and wishes to guide them already in advance...

It's yet one of the nice things in this game. The wizards may decide how much they wish to play as a team with their minions and get all the help they can from them - and how much risk they're willing to take that way if one of their lot turns into the service of the other team? In the first game no one turned from good to evil or from evil to good but who knows what happens this time? If we take my suggestion 1) (more special roles) it heightens the possibility of a minion being lost to the other side and would add to the tension of the game.

And the specials should argue their cases to the wizard as well as they can. If a certain minion looks like being up to date the wizard might be more willing to let that one minion share the knowledge and thence make that individual's game more exciting... But yes, that's for the wizard to decide...

Okay. Time to bed. Let's continue this tomorrow...

[the phantom]

Yay! Morm is playing!

You should be Rikae's brother so you can be my uncle. You'd be a very cool uncle.

[Lhunardawen]

The possibility of there having more gifteds than usual sounds exciting, but will that still be okay once the game reverts to its original form after the wizards duel? Maybe the large number of players can dampen the effect a bit but the wizards duel can happen only after a certain Day, right? Won't the village be a bit too small for all those gifteds by then?

EDIT (instead of double-posting): Believe me, Gwath and McCaber, you'll want to be part of a bigger family once this game starts. Would you be my big brothers? Don't worry, my parents aren't the strict and stifling type. (Well, you won't be - right, Cailin?)

[Aganzir]

Now only Nerwen will have to change her avvie to a Disney one to keep the family together...

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Oh and if The Ka is still playing I'd love her to join my family in honour of our mutual love of a certain band...

And I'd love her to be my sister (or some other relative), if she just wants to.

Cabbie and Gwath, would either of you like dating me?

Legate, do you want to be my ex?