Dol Guldur

[William Cloud Hicklin]

But what intrigues me is the fact that Gandalf revealed who "the Necromancer" really is - and that is: did he overhear some captains' discussion - but I don't know from whichever they said he could be as sure as he was that Sauron is there - or did he see Sauron personally? He might took a peek through a keyhole into his throne chamber or something, but still...?

Easy- he felt a disturbance in the Force...

As to the W-K- that derives from his old title (Witch) King of Angmar. Although it's not out of the question that he or some other Wraith might have been ruler of a Black Numenorean realm, I doubt any BN colonists would have dared take the title of King so long as the House of Elros ruled across the Sea.

In fact, one might suppose that the Numenorean Nazgul were the last created- during Saurons captivity. But that wouldn't really leave enough time for the wraithing process to be completed.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

In fact, one might suppose that the Numenorean Nazgul were the last created- during Saurons captivity. But that wouldn't really leave enough time for the wraithing process to be completed.

Nay, that's improbable. The Tale of the Years says:

2251 - Tar-Atanamir takes the sceptre. Rebellion and division of the Númenoreans begins. About this time the Nazgul or Ringwraiths, slaves of the Nine Rings, first appear.

Of the Nine, it is said, which implies their number was completed during that time (I also don't think it happened all at once, but let's say from the moment Sauron achieved the Rings - 1690s - which was plenty time to collect nine people), and, mainly, there is the note of division of the Númenoreans. Yes, I believe the three Númenorean Nazgul could have been among the last ones, but not during Sauron's captivity, but by this time - simply some wicked Númenoreans who lived in the M-E colonies, I believe. You know, an evil prefect, a greedy ambassador, a pioneer who wanted to explore M-E and was interested in sorcery.

And concerning WK, I agree with Nerwen - the Lord of the Nazgul achieved this "King" title only after his reign in Angmar, which is Third Age.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

2251 - Tar-Atanamir takes the sceptre. Rebellion and division of the Númenoreans begins. About this time the Nazgul or Ringwraiths, slaves of the Nine Rings, first appear.

You know, the events in this annal might not be unrelated. Could Numenorean Nazgul in fact have been acting as Sauronian agants in Numenor, leading to the said division?

[Gordis]

I could have sworn I have posted in this thread a few days ago - and my post shows as the last one. But why can't I see it?

Edit: now when I have posted, my post and Nerwen's post have magically reappeared. - A bug?

Nerwen: Yes, he does sound rather as if he's just been consulting the Lonely Middle-earth Westron Phrasebook

Wery probably such-like existed in Mordor libraries...