Time to fix Gandalf versus the Witchking

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Quempel

Alatar,

I have said the Dwarves were made by Aule, a Valar.

Sorry; I started with some point, began the research, then thought...what am I doing? Been here, done this wind up before.

Most likely I could post for both sides, having read the arguments and know (somewhat) the posters' points. Even considered using StW's superb miniature work as part of a reply, but...

I'm back to sitting this out until Eönwë responds to my last post.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by alatar

I'm back to sitting this out until Eönwë responds to my last post.

Can I give it a try?

While Gandalf was indeed Olorin the Maiar, he was not quite a "normal" Maiar. Unlike what all Ainur could do, namely taking a "human-like" shape, Olorin was "incarnated" in Gandalf. So even though Olorin was a Maiar and unkilable, Gandalf was something else, and he could be killed. As a matter of fact, the Balrog kills Gandalf... and then he is sent back (reborn, in a way).

Let's say that the WK stuck a sword right through Gandalf... Gandalf would've been dead. Not Olorin, and perhaps Olorin would've been ticked and wrecked holy (he's a demi-god after all) chaos on everything that was going on.

Still, I don't think that the WK had a reasonable chance of killing Gandalf, even if it was technically possible. As mentioned before, Gandalf defeated a Balrog, which is FAR stronger than the WK.

Having said that, and going back to the glycogen comment, what if dwarves had an exo-skeleton made of Chitin, like most bugs do?

I mean, they lived in dark places, literally under a rock... furthermore, what if dwarves could metabolize their exo-skeleton to allow them to perform "super-dwarven" feats of skill?

And what if Shadofax's mane was actualy a storage of polysacharides?

~Farael, the biochemist -_-

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Farael

~Farael, the biochemist -_-

Oh no!

How we've gotten to dwarven exoskeletons from fixing a scene from Peter Jackson's LotR is anyone's guess.

PJ rules out exoskeletons; you see the endos when the FotR enter Moria. Haven't found a Tolkien reference for or against (though surely in Three Ages someone would have noticed and remarked on it).

[Sauron the White]

LOTR - At the end of the Chapter The White Rider in THE TWO TOWERS Legolas isspeaking to Gandalf about seein Shadowfax in the distance and says he is

"a very great horse. I have not seen his like before."


"Nor will you again', said Gandalf. 'That is Shadowfax. He is the chief of the Mearas, lord of the horses, and even Theoden, King of Rohan, has never looked on a better.

And earlier, in the chapter The Council of Elrond, Gandalf says of Shadowfax,

"There is one among them might have been foaled in the morning of the world."
That is a reference to th earliest days in Valinor.

Others agree. Here is some info from The Encyclopedia of Arda

In the old north of Middle-earth lived a proud race of wild horses, long-lived, wise and fleet of foot. The legends of Men said that their ancestors had been brought from the West by Béma, their name for the Vala Oromë.

Gimli is but one of many Dwarves with no particular blessings or abilities which would distinguish him from his bretheren. There is no foundation for ultra-marathon running in any account of the rest of the Dwarves in any of the books.

ANd one (hopefully last) other point. It is not my contention that nobody could run 45 miles each day for three days. Highly trained elite ultra marathoners , the elite of the elite, have done that. My contention is that an untrained Dwarf could not. Shadowfax, on the other hand, can run and run and run as Gandalf has said. He is the equal to those extra-highly trained ultra-marathoners.

[Sauron the White]

Estelyn... in fairness I was asked a question by Galendor who asked me for a response after I made a very short joke. I have repeatedly tried to give shorter answers and if you look at my last post in this thread you will see that I asked anyone interested to review the previous threads where this was discussed at length. I share your feelings not to have this thread turned into a discussion that has already been held elsewhere.

My reference to Holy was not of Tolkien - I will be glad to correct that for you with a substitution of a different word.

[Galendor]

I'm sorry, my fault! I am responsible for bringing this up here, not STW. I apologize I was not fully aware that it had been discussed at length already.

STW, thank you very much for directing me to the names of the other threads in which this topic has been discussed. I look forward to reading them.

So I take full responsiblity for this departure from the topic of this thread, and thank you for allowing it to continue as long as it did.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Galendor

I'm sorry, my fault! I am responsible for bringing this up here, not STW. I apologize I was not fully aware that it had been discussed at length already.

STW, thank you very much for directing me to the names of the other threads in which this topic has been discussed. I look forward to reading them.

So I take full responsiblity for this departure from the topic of this thread, and thank you for allowing it to continue as long as it did.

Galendor, no need for you to apologize. We older members should know better. A Wormtongue might easily find me a picker of bones.

Anyway, I'm still interested; what would you change? I could accept all of PJ's LotR EE version in toto if but for one little change. When Gandalf is on the ground, staffless, helpless before the Witch-King, just three seconds before we hear the horns of the Rohirrim, put a slight grin on the old wizard's face.

That's all that I ask.

[Sauron the White]

Those few seconds of the scrubbing green bubbles sweeping away the forces of evil from Minas Tirith. That is a cut I would welcome.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Those few seconds of the scrubbing green bubbles sweeping away the forces of evil from Minas Tirith. That is a cut I would welcome.

Do you mean that you would keep the Green Scrubbers, but not let them clean Minas Tirith, or do away with the GS altogether? The later would take more than just a few seconds of editing.

[Sauron the White]

It is not the Army of the Dead that bothers me its the panaromic shots of all those green bubbles sweeping over the city. I have not timed that shot but I do think its only a few seconds - perhaps ten or fifteen at the most.