WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Mac

I disagree with Fea's statement that we won't catch a wolf today unless s/he's stupid. The sharper we look, the less stupid a wolf has to be in order to be caught. Still, her statement at least is genuine - other than the ones of those who agreed with her. *coughalittlegreenandvolocough*

Might I ask you when did I agree with her? When I said that there are no hard facts on Day1? Yes, I did agree with that, but that is all with which I agreed. I do not prefer random votes, basicly because they're unfair and because they leave no trails - only by leaving trails can the Innocents get the Wolves to leave trails as they follow behind.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Volo looks suspicious to me. First he criticises Rikae along the lines Legate did, but much stronger, then he agrees with her and conveniently jumps on the Valier-bandwaggon (#39).

Legate's talk is too subtle and it leaves an open path for him to change the meaning of his words later on, but I see nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae. I have no way of proving it, but I wrote my post about Rikae before I read Legate's and decided not to change it when I got to it.

I'm not happy with voting Valier, but I haven't found any better reasons to vote anybody else. I hope she will return before any bandwagons will take place.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Might I ask you when did I agree with her? When I said that there are no hard facts on Day1?

Exactly that. You didn't agree to everything she said, but it was in the same line. But this was only a small comment and not the reason for my suspicion about you.

Originally Posted by Volo

I do not prefer random votes, basicly because they're unfair and because they leave no trails

And wasting a chance to lynch a wolf, even if it's not a good one, is not a reason against it?? But let's not start/keep on discussing this.

Originally Posted by Volo

Legate's talk is too subtle and it leaves an open path for him to change the meaning of his words later on, but I see nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae. I do it as well, though only very little. But I think the reason "her analysis was not helpful enough" is a bad and a suspicious reason.

I see where your suspicion of Legate comes from, but I don't share it. He doesn't strike me as a Wolf of Amon Gaur (yet).

[Rikae]

To clarify my position on bantering posts:
I don't find them the least bit suspicious as the first post on day one, or as brief responses to others. Many players like to kick off Day 1 with a joke or two, and I see it as harmless, provided they join the actual discussion at some point during the day.
Theclassical "trying to look helpful while saying nothing" post, however, is another matter. The fact is, wolves do know something the rest of us don't - they know who is evil, and who is innocent. Most of the time, they're trying to avoid directing suspicion toward those they know are guilty and have someone they know is innocent lynched - but not in a way that points back to them. Therefore, an empty but vaguely helpful-looking post is often the slip that gets a wolf caught.

Now, regarding Mac - certainly you have no reason to trust my hunches now. However, in the likely event I die at some point during the game, they might help you. I certainly trust my intuition on Mac by now, as I was able to guess his role almost immediately in the last two games.

Well, now. We've heard from a few more people, and conversation seems to be taking off. I don't agree with Fea, but her pessimism seems genuine. Something about Green seemed slightly odd to me when I read her post, although I can't quite put my finger on it. The reluctance to reveal her suspicions, maybe, which doesn't seem to logically follow from the response to Fea.

A word about random votes - I agree with Lommy, they should be outlawed! A random vote does absolutely nothing to help us find wolves, and it masks the meaningless of the wolves' votes. Therefore, anyone who votes without having given some reason for suspicion, is suspicious in my eyes.

Nerwen is indeed acting very defensively, however, unlike Lommy, I seem to recall her behaving similarly in the last. I fear she may be too easy a scapegoat, actually, and the determined way Lommy pursues her is slightly worrisome.

I'm glad to see Kath has joined the discussion, and I don't see anything objectionable in her post.
It is difficult to say anything about Aganzir at this point, but I'd like to know her opinion on Valier.

I'm not sure what Legate is trying to accomplish, or what he wants. He seems to be encouraging continued discussion of generalities, and taking a dominant, teacherly, "Nogrod's apprentice" role. I particularly don't understand why it is useless for me to state my suspicions and opinions of people, but apparently quite helpful if he gives his. I suppose when Legate dies and turns out to be a wolf, those will be useful.

I'm not sure who to vote for at this point. I do find Valier suspicious, and although I'd like the chance to play with her again (I think the only other game we had together was my first), there are good reasons not to vote for pretty much everyone on Day 1. What should we do, decide who's most "expendable" or who's most suspicious?
However, I'm also open to voting Nerwen, and if anyone else sees anything suspicious in Lommy or Legate, I'm listening. (With a little alliteration, no less!)

EDIT: X'd with everyone since Volo.

[Valier]

So I'm very suspicious am I? Hmmmm I don't see it. I don't think I contradicted myself, only stated my opinions, if they are a little flip-floppy it's because it's the first day and I always find it hard to get a grasp on people. Now I am sorry my time is very limited today, and if by me telling you all this is suspicious then....ha you'd be wrong, I really am busy today and I like to let people know, so that makes me wolfish? So far I am getting a werid vibe from Morm....we have well a history, Morm always suspects me, even sometimes pushes to get me killed. This time he is very quiet and unopinionated which is odd for him. Since he has not posted a reason why, I tend to believe that he has some hair up his sleeve. I have about an hour before I gotta run, so i will be rereading everything and voting before I leave. I know my leaving and early vote may just get me lynched today, which would be too bad, since I'm innocent and really hope to kill us some baddies.

[Kuruharan]

mormegil seems to me to be talking sense.

Even though I am uncomfortable with the arbitrary "Let's be on the safe side and kill Fea"...

But I think he's right that Thinlómien's been talking a lot...and it strikes me that she may be putting up a front of being helpful while in actuality stirring up a lot of mess and confusion.

[Kath]

Alright my lovelies I have to go. I'm sorry for not being around much toDay but I have a ball to go to!

So, who to vote for? I must admit I've not had a chance to closely read through the thread since my last visit but the one person who caught my eye was:

++THE MIGHT

He said that he'd got everyone in the village thinking he was a wolf, but so far as I know people have barely mentioned him. I'm not entirely sure that a wolf would bring so much attention to himself, but there's nothing to say this isn't quite a smart double bluff. Anyway, that's it from me for toDay.

[The Might]

Duh, you take any word way too seriously. If I say the whole village, then it doesn't mean I am talking about everyone. But as in the last time because I might seem suspicious I'm always considered to be a wolf. Then again that's just the way I post.

This vote reminds me of all voting Rikae last time just because she had voted herself, which also is quite uncommon. If you are going to always lynch people because they seem to do something out of the ordinary, then go ahead, but I think that will only make the game grow more and more boring.

It will force all players into the same old patterns of play, always taking care to not use a certain word as it might be your doom. If that's what WW is about, killing anyone that seems out of the ordinary, not necessarily guilty, then count me out of it.

I really don't care if I'll be lynched, it's this "oh look he's saying he doesn't like quiet ones in the 3rd post, let's lnych him for that, because besides him nobody seems strange" theory that I dislike.

[Valier]

Is anyone else around? I gotta run soon and if someone else has questions or something else to bring up that would be great. Right now I am leaning towards Morm....not that I have a good reason...just well a feeling. Sometimes my feelings lead me astray, but I find when in doubt it is best to listen to them. I would hate to lynch an Ordo today, but hey it happens on Day 1, and if that Ordo need be me, well then I guess that would make me a Fenris Ordo. But please I beg you...give me more time to help this village out, I am sure my feelings eventually will lead us to at least one of our furry friends.

[Nerwen]

It's very late here now, or rather very early, and I have to go.

++Thinlómien, a.k.a Lommy Baggins.

Let's face it, despite all this talk of doing our best to catch a wolf the first day, nobody's acted really suspicious yet. However, she's the one I find the most worrying. I've already stated my reasons.

Of course, maybe I'm just taking things too personally.

Goodnight.

[Rikae]

I'm around.

I'm leaning toward giving Valier a chance to look guiltier, or more innocent toMorrow.. As for this thing between Lommy and Nerwen, I'm inclined to think there has to be a wolf between the two of them. There is simply too much aggression there... it doesn't seem like two innocents going at it, but rather, either a wolf trying to get an ordo lynched, or a cornered wolf fighting back in desperation.

I don't quite understand Mac's suspicion toward Volo based on Volo's suspicions of me, which (though wrong), weren't particularly wolfish looking to my eyes. I can't help but feel Mac is letting personal feelings cloud his judgement. (Sorry...)

I also don't agree with the suspicion towards The Might. He could become one of those easy Day 1 lynches, but honestly, his strangeness is more of the "not really paying attention" variety than the "wolfish" one.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

if anyone else sees anything suspicious in Lommy or Legate, I'm listening. (With a little alliteration, no less!)

Try this:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Though, I'm not sure if the feel I get from Nerwen's latest post indicates she might be guilty or that I've picked up the old bad habit of suspecting people I disagree with again... Neverthelesss, I'm keeping an eye on her.

It is quite possible, I think to read this as a threat: "Disagree with me and I'll lynch you". It certainly made me nervous. And I'm starting to feel that Lommy is working a bit too hard at setting up a no-win situation for me. The comment I made about wolf-hunters running the risk of looking wolfish applies to her too, but even so I think she's taking it too far.

I mean, let's look at what I actually said– I said you had misinterpreted a comment I made and I criticized some of your arguments. People said part of the criticism was unfair and I agreed and backed off from it.

Yes, I was indecisive– but toDay people should be indecisive! We've really got very little to go on. And yes, I was defensive, but hey, why shouldn't I be?

I think people need to be wary of this word "defensive". It seems to be a sort of "magic word" in this game.

EDIT: X'd with Kath, Kuru and Valier.

[A Little Green]

Hmmmm.

The Might does seem a little weird at the moment. Though I don't quite grasp the point of the "lynch the quiet ones" -attitude, his first post didn't necessarily strike me as suspicious. What comes to his latest post, however...

Originally Posted by The Might

lol, I again seem to have managed to get all against me thinking I'm the wolf...and this is the second time in the row.
Actually I said that because I want to avoid what I needed to do last time, vote for someone without any proof whatsoever.
Just as Feanor already said her choice will be a member she is concerned with I also wanted to explain who I'll take on the first day.

I don't know what to think about that. His defence does look very feeble to me, but then again that makes him seem pretty innocent if you see my point.

Of Valier I am still very unsure. I'll be keeping an eye on her.

As for the others, Nerwen and Sally both look pretty innocent at the moment.

Lommy, though... She does seem very genuine, no doubt. She hasn't given me any reason for suspicion as yet. However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed. The same goes for the other loud, leader-ish and innocent-looking ones such as Rikae and in a way Legate as well. They don't look suspicious, but by gaining a sort of leader role (or at least a leader attitude) in the discussion, they might be able to hide themselves. I am not saying we should lynch all loud people, no. I am just saying that we must not forget their existence as possible wolves the way I almost did.

Of the others, I am very very unsure. I suppose I should read through the whole thread and try to look at the people as individuals. So far, I've been concentrating more on the discussion as a whole.

So true, so true. We'd need a wolf to practically slip what he is to get any proper accusations toDay.

And, as everyone seems to be making such a fuss about this statement, I think I should clarify it a little. I'd like to underline the word proper. What I actually meant was that it is highly improbable that we'll find valid evidence against anyone yet.

What comes to the random votes, I'm definitely against them (whatever image I may have given). Even though we might not get any valid proof of anything, I find a vote based on poor evidence hugely better than one based on absolutely no evidence at all.

EDIT: x-ed with the seven latest posts

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by morm

too many european posters so a lot to catch up on in the morning.

Europeans: 8, Australians: 1, Americans: 10 (unless I miscounted)

Hard indeed is the lot of mormegil...

Originally Posted by Rikae

The fact is, wolves do know something the rest of us don't - they know who is evil, and who is innocent.
[...]
I certainly trust my intuition on Mac by now, as I was able to guess his role almost immediately in the last two games.

No comment.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nerwen is indeed acting very defensively, however, unlike Lommy, I seem to recall her behaving similarly in the last.

I don't entirely agree. She did have defensive streaks, but not as continuous as this time - on a Day One.

It seems like I'm the only one suspicious of Volo today. Maybe I'm misled, maybe everybody else is. Anyway, as there is no way he'll be lynched today, I think I'll have to look elsewhere for now. I'm going to return to him tomorrow.

I think I'll better get myself a fresh look at everybody before I vote.