WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Kath]

Here I am again, as I promised. The earlier post seemed to be giving people trouble. I didn't have time to post anything substantial but I wanted to make sure I got notifications from the thread so I could keep up a bit easier so I just posted those few words.

Couple of things have grabbed my attention so far. Nerwen and Rikae's little argument seems to be a bit central. Nerwen, I can't see that there's anything wrong with Rikae offering her opinion on Mac. Ok, so it's based on outside knowledge but then technically any impressions we carry over from past games are outside knowledge as well. For example, the one person I can generally guess the role of is Mith, simply because I know her style quite well, and others are aware of that and sometimes (when they're not about to lynch me ) take that into account. I for one don't think you should be shy about offering any thoughts that might help us.

Still, I think that argument has pretty much been settled now which is good. Though it has left me with some lingering suspicion of Nerwen, who seems a little jumpy.

I'm feeling pretty ok with Rikae though, and with Lommy, who seems to be the loudmouth of the village so far, except for one comment:

Everybody knows newbies agree with and are affected by charismatic and intelligent more experienced players.

I'm not sure this can really be used as an excuse for suspicious behaviour from a newbie. Just look at the last game with Nerwen especially having her own thoughts and not really being affected by the opinions of older players (as far as I could see anyway). I'm not saying A Little Green - hmm, just Green maybe as a shortening? - is suspicious, I can't because I haven't looked at her, but maybe she is quite aware that she can get away with hiding behind her newbie status. That I think though is a thought for Days to come, I don't want to go lynching newbies on the first Day.

Just got to say as well, little suspicious that morm's only posted the once. Phew, and there's the old rivalry dealt with. To be clear those who don't get this, I am kidding.

Are we still waiting on people to post? Ooh yes we are, Farael. I thought it seemed a little quiet!

Right, I'm off again for a little while. Should be back before too long.

EDIT: Cross posted with Mac.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Nerwen, I can't see that there's anything wrong with Rikae offering her opinion on Mac.

You're right, Kath, and you'll notice I've taken it back already. I was starting to get suspicious of Rikae anyway at that point because of her oddly contradictory arguments, and the way she seemed to be twisting my words, but I've changed my mind about her (see #52).

Besides, she got lynched the first Day last game!

[Kuruharan]

Besides, she got lynched the first Day last game!

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

Of course. That was a joke!

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

Agreed! Far too often people look at previous games. Not always wise to do.

I see the statement was stated to be a joke later...odd

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by morm

But what you said is interesting when compared to what you said previous to this.

Yes, I know. Believe or not, and think what you will, but I actually thought that slight contradiction when making that post but decided to say exactly what I said anyway. It would have been a very long ramble if I had commented those two statements' relation to each other. But still, they're different things, really and I do not think there's any problem with having those two opinions at the same time.

Originally Posted by Rikae

and the determined way Lommy pursues her is slightly worrisome.

"Determined way I pursue her"? Could you elaborate? I don't think I've determinedly pursued anyone. I do suspect Nerwen but definitely not so much that I would start pursuing her.

Originally Posted by Kuru

But I think he's right that Thinlómien's been talking a lot...and it strikes me that she may be putting up a front of being helpful while in actuality stirring up a lot of mess and confusion.

Helpful? Nice to hear that. Stirring up mess and confusion? I might be doing that, but not intentionally...

Kath's vote looks pretty futile even for a Day1 vote.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It is quite possible, I think to read this as a threat: "Disagree with me and I'll lynch you". It certainly made me nervous.

Really? It was not meant as a threat but truth be told I don't mind that it made you nervous - especially as you decided to state your feeling. It's a little thing to get nervous of, if you're an innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And I'm starting to feel that Lommy is working a bit too hard at setting up a no-win situation for me.

Really, what have I said to make everybody think I'm so much after you? You happen to be the person I suspect the most but I'm no way certain of your guilt, actually on the contrary - like I've said more than once I don't have strong suspicions yet. Even though your way of reacting to being even slightly accused does look quite wolvish so maybe I do have a stronger suspect now.

I don't know what to make of Nerwen's vote post, but I don't like it.

Originally Posted by Green

However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed. The same goes for the other loud, leader-ish and innocent-looking ones such as Rikae and in a way Legate as well. They don't look suspicious, but by gaining a sort of leader role (or at least a leader attitude) in the discussion, they might be able to hide themselves.

Funny you should say that as all of us have been suspected to some extent today... more than many others, for example.

Originally Posted by Valier

well I hate to have to bring in a third lynch candidate

If this is our list of lynch candidates, I'll be brining in a fourth one, unless I must act to save myself from lynching or to save the village from a double or triple or quadrupule (or whatever) lynch.

Now that I have got to the topic, I may probably state the obvious and remind you all that we have an unlimited amount of lynches, so we should be really careful. I don't see any reason for us to lynch more than one person on Day1.

Now I'm going to reread the whole thread and think it all through again.

edit: xed with everybody after morm

[Thinlómien]

What is this aggression thing? You're honestly really making me confused...

Concerning his vote: TM seems unlikely wolf for doing that kind of tricks, but I don't really grasp why would he be that non-helpful and suicidal as an innocent...

edit: xed with Rikae's vote... now there's a lynch candidate I could support but it all looks too easy if you know what I mean...

[Rikae]

There was definately a sense of Lommy going after Nerwen, pointing out her defensiveness and making her more defensive in the process. I've been at the other end of those sorts of tactics, and it's difficult to emerge unscathed. However, it could also be an instance of good wolf-hunting on Lommy's part. I found Nerwen suspicious to begin with, but at this point, it's difficult to sort out whether her continued suspicious behavior is provoked or real. Not just wolves, but some innocents, behave that way when backed into a corner.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yes, I know. Believe or not, and think what you will, but I actually thought that slight contradiction when making that post but decided to say exactly what I said anyway. It would have been a very long ramble if I had commented those two statements' relation to each other. But still, they're different things, really and I do not think there's any problem with having those two opinions at the same time.

...What?

Helpful? Nice to hear that. Stirring up mess and confusion? I might be doing that, but not intentionally...

I said "put up a front of being helpful."

[Kuruharan]

I do agree, however, that we should avoid lynching more than one today.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, hope that at maximum two people will x-post with me.

About Nerwen. Her vote does not seem too okay, given that she votes a person with whom she had some quarrels earlier. But that's not the main thing. What I wanted to mention was this:

Originally Posted by Kuru

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

And her response:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Of course. That was a joke!

Now I think Kuru's argument is not valid. One can base his voting on whether f.ex. he does not want to vote a newbie who is playing first day in his first game, or other similar reasons like that one - I'm saying that because people generally DO that, just look around even here and today! But in that case, what really puzzles me, is Nerwen's reaction. I don't think there is any reason why she should not stand behind her opinion. Was that really a joke from the start? Or did a wolf-Nerwen realise that what she said is suspicious and decided to cover it?

Whatever the case, when I mentioned Kuru. He is one whose behavior I don't really like toDay. His one-liner comments make me think of an evil sinister little dwarf (something like Mim) sitting in a corner and always adding his comments in a squeaky voice. The comments he makes are not really creatively entering the discussion, rather are pointing at other people without the one who says them actually bringing himself in the spotlight. I need to look through his posts more carefully, but I really don't like his behavior.

EDIT: x-ed with Rikae and, now you see a nice illustration, two of these "one-liners" (though at least the second one does not look that bad on first sight as some of them do).

[Aganzir]

One thing maybe worth bringing forward, maybe not: to me it seems that Lommy is protecting Greenie. It can be understood, since she must be very excited to see her play at last and doesn't wish her to die too soon, but anyway.

Post #47.
It could be taken as a warning: "That was not a good move, do something else." Also it looks like Lommy's taking a little distance to Greenie, maybe in case she'll get lynched. I think it doesn't look genuine.
At the end, Lommy states that as Greenie is a newbie, it's possible that Lommy's mistaken and that's only her style to play. Or that she should be given a chance. Or whatever. The main point is that although Greenie has said something slightly suspicious, she shouldn't be lynched yet.

(is bolded by me, as it was italized in the original post)

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Lommy, though... She does seem very genuine, no doubt. She hasn't given me any reason for suspicion as yet. However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Because of the continuous accusations on Valier, I read through her post again. Nothing too suspicious there, except maybe for this a little unnerving phrase: If Valier is a wolf, that would be a perfect guise. If, as a wolf, she finds nothing too "suspicious" about anyone, she can just rely on voting for a quiet person.
Otherwise I don't find Valier exceptionally wolf-ish. Besides, I have the impression that she is an experienced player. If so, she would probably not post a phrase like that as a wolf.

This may be a small, insignificant thing, but anyway: I don't like this emphasizing of words very much. It's so.. "In the very improbable case that they are wolves... I don't actually think they are but if they happened to be..." Ok. Mentioning two of her fellow wolves in a slightly suspecting tone in order to look good if either of them is lynched later on? But that would be quite risky, and I'm not sure if Greenie would do that. Unless she thought everybody would think it too obvious for any wolf to do.

Considering Valier herself, she looks quite neutral to me. However, if a certain person(s) turned out to be a wolf, I'd look at her very carefully.

I wouldn't be surprised to find at least one wolf among these three. I'm still wary about Nerwen though, and I'm most probably going to vote for one of these toDay.
I think voting for Might now is more like throwing away one's vote. I don't think he's a wolf - at least I remember that when I was a (newbie) wolf I was so very, very afraid of getting lynched on Day 1 that I wouldn't believe a newbie wolf would act like he has. Though everybody plays differently, I must admit.

edit: xed since Mac

[Brinniel]

I don't particularly like morm's retorting vote for Valier, but still, I don't think it's suspicious enough to lynch him.

I have to vote now:

++Nerwen

For reasons I stated earlier.

Anyways, I have to go now. But I do think everyone will agree when I say let's avoid a double or triple lynching toDay. I remember last time that happened on Day 1. It was disasterous.