WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Kuruharan]

Besides, she got lynched the first Day last game!

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

Of course. That was a joke!

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

Agreed! Far too often people look at previous games. Not always wise to do.

I see the statement was stated to be a joke later...odd

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by morm

But what you said is interesting when compared to what you said previous to this.

Yes, I know. Believe or not, and think what you will, but I actually thought that slight contradiction when making that post but decided to say exactly what I said anyway. It would have been a very long ramble if I had commented those two statements' relation to each other. But still, they're different things, really and I do not think there's any problem with having those two opinions at the same time.

Originally Posted by Rikae

and the determined way Lommy pursues her is slightly worrisome.

"Determined way I pursue her"? Could you elaborate? I don't think I've determinedly pursued anyone. I do suspect Nerwen but definitely not so much that I would start pursuing her.

Originally Posted by Kuru

But I think he's right that Thinlómien's been talking a lot...and it strikes me that she may be putting up a front of being helpful while in actuality stirring up a lot of mess and confusion.

Helpful? Nice to hear that. Stirring up mess and confusion? I might be doing that, but not intentionally...

Kath's vote looks pretty futile even for a Day1 vote.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It is quite possible, I think to read this as a threat: "Disagree with me and I'll lynch you". It certainly made me nervous.

Really? It was not meant as a threat but truth be told I don't mind that it made you nervous - especially as you decided to state your feeling. It's a little thing to get nervous of, if you're an innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And I'm starting to feel that Lommy is working a bit too hard at setting up a no-win situation for me.

Really, what have I said to make everybody think I'm so much after you? You happen to be the person I suspect the most but I'm no way certain of your guilt, actually on the contrary - like I've said more than once I don't have strong suspicions yet. Even though your way of reacting to being even slightly accused does look quite wolvish so maybe I do have a stronger suspect now.

I don't know what to make of Nerwen's vote post, but I don't like it.

Originally Posted by Green

However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed. The same goes for the other loud, leader-ish and innocent-looking ones such as Rikae and in a way Legate as well. They don't look suspicious, but by gaining a sort of leader role (or at least a leader attitude) in the discussion, they might be able to hide themselves.

Funny you should say that as all of us have been suspected to some extent today... more than many others, for example.

Originally Posted by Valier

well I hate to have to bring in a third lynch candidate

If this is our list of lynch candidates, I'll be brining in a fourth one, unless I must act to save myself from lynching or to save the village from a double or triple or quadrupule (or whatever) lynch.

Now that I have got to the topic, I may probably state the obvious and remind you all that we have an unlimited amount of lynches, so we should be really careful. I don't see any reason for us to lynch more than one person on Day1.

Now I'm going to reread the whole thread and think it all through again.

edit: xed with everybody after morm

[Thinlómien]

What is this aggression thing? You're honestly really making me confused...

Concerning his vote: TM seems unlikely wolf for doing that kind of tricks, but I don't really grasp why would he be that non-helpful and suicidal as an innocent...

edit: xed with Rikae's vote... now there's a lynch candidate I could support but it all looks too easy if you know what I mean...

[Rikae]

There was definately a sense of Lommy going after Nerwen, pointing out her defensiveness and making her more defensive in the process. I've been at the other end of those sorts of tactics, and it's difficult to emerge unscathed. However, it could also be an instance of good wolf-hunting on Lommy's part. I found Nerwen suspicious to begin with, but at this point, it's difficult to sort out whether her continued suspicious behavior is provoked or real. Not just wolves, but some innocents, behave that way when backed into a corner.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Legate

Hey, hey, wait! I can't refresh as fast as the posts appear!

I agree...it's been awhile since I've seen so much posting on Day 1. And having to come and go with classes, I can't keep up!

I'm feeling a tad rushed because I have to go in about forty minutes, so I must vote fairly soon. But I'll try to make my thoughts as clear as I can.

Originally Posted by Mac

It seems like I'm the only one suspicious of Volo today.

No, actually I feeling there's something fishy about him too. I can't quite grasp what it is, more of a gut feeling than anything. I don't think I would vote for him toDay though, because one, I'm unsure, and two, I don't want to spread the votes out any more. But if I have time, I'll go back and take a better look at his posts.

I'm not sure what to think of The Might now. Reading post #69, I became entirely suspicious of the "don't lynch me because I'm unique" argument. But then he went off and did a suicide vote...which makes me think he's now just giving up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think a wolf would give up so easily like that...

I find Valier's vote to be a bit odd. Mainly because I can't see what's so suspicious about morm.

Nerwen's vote is probably the one I find most suspicious, though. Rikae mentions she's considering Lommy as a possibility, and Nerwen responds saying, "Try this," followed by an attack and vote on Lommy. It seems like she was just looking for a window of opportunity, and grabbed it once Rikae offered. It actually wouldn't be so suspicious if Nerwen expressed slight suspicions, but instead she jumps down so hard on Lommy, I can't help but find it odd.

[Kuruharan]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yes, I know. Believe or not, and think what you will, but I actually thought that slight contradiction when making that post but decided to say exactly what I said anyway. It would have been a very long ramble if I had commented those two statements' relation to each other. But still, they're different things, really and I do not think there's any problem with having those two opinions at the same time.

...What?

Helpful? Nice to hear that. Stirring up mess and confusion? I might be doing that, but not intentionally...

I said "put up a front of being helpful."

[Kuruharan]

I do agree, however, that we should avoid lynching more than one today.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Valier

I will be lurking around most of the evening, reading what people have to say, before I make a decision on who to vote for.

I can see a wolf thinking this, but I can't see a wolf saying this. Thereby Valier leans more to the innocent side, if you ask me.

Even though:

Originally Posted by Valier

But please I beg you...give me more time to help this village out, I am sure my feelings eventually will lead us to at least one of our furry friends.

This seems a bit vulgar of her. Everybody who's played with her she knows she truly has incredible hunches, but that kind of self-advertisement seems slightly furry. But that is not enough to make me really suspect her, I'd just like to point it out.

Fea's tone and attitude seem innocent, but I know very well she's able to fake it all...

Legate's nogrodish teacherly attitude (like Rikae phrased it) looks somewhat troublesome, but he hasn't really said or done anything I'd regard as suspicious, so I'm not really concerned about him at the moment.

Of those I've named as my suspects: I still think Brinn's first post is suspicious but her latter posts don't give me any reason to suspect her. Like I've said before, I would not like to vote Little Green today, especially now that she has started to make more sense.

I reread Nerwen too. Her earlier posts that used to make me suspicious seem quite normal to me now, but her later posts (starting from #68) seem suspicious. However I have a bad feeling I might be totally wrong about her... It's the feeling that it all looks to easy to be correct. I don't mean Nerwen's overtly wolvish (for she isn't) but if this suspicion of mine turned out to be true it would be all too easy and simple in a way (I really can't explain, it's just an unfomfortable feeling).

I think I might vote Nerwen today - she seems definitely most suspicious of those voted this far. I might be persuaded to vote someone else as, though, just as long as we don't end up with a multiple lynch.

Like I've said several times before, I really don't see why Nerwen and Rikae are accusing me of aggressiveness. It's odd of them and maybe even suspicious. But as the've both voted they might not be around to explain it to me right now so it may have to wait until tomorrow (provided, of course, that any of us is still alive).

Originally Posted by Miggy

If I say the whole village, then it doesn't mean I am talking about everyone.

That was just too funny a comment. Quite an extraordinary flip-flop.

EDIT: xed with everyone since Kuru's double post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, hope that at maximum two people will x-post with me.

About Nerwen. Her vote does not seem too okay, given that she votes a person with whom she had some quarrels earlier. But that's not the main thing. What I wanted to mention was this:

Originally Posted by Kuru

What's that got to do with anything?

If you think she's a wolf you should vote for her regardless of other considerations.

And her response:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Of course. That was a joke!

Now I think Kuru's argument is not valid. One can base his voting on whether f.ex. he does not want to vote a newbie who is playing first day in his first game, or other similar reasons like that one - I'm saying that because people generally DO that, just look around even here and today! But in that case, what really puzzles me, is Nerwen's reaction. I don't think there is any reason why she should not stand behind her opinion. Was that really a joke from the start? Or did a wolf-Nerwen realise that what she said is suspicious and decided to cover it?

Whatever the case, when I mentioned Kuru. He is one whose behavior I don't really like toDay. His one-liner comments make me think of an evil sinister little dwarf (something like Mim) sitting in a corner and always adding his comments in a squeaky voice. The comments he makes are not really creatively entering the discussion, rather are pointing at other people without the one who says them actually bringing himself in the spotlight. I need to look through his posts more carefully, but I really don't like his behavior.

EDIT: x-ed with Rikae and, now you see a nice illustration, two of these "one-liners" (though at least the second one does not look that bad on first sight as some of them do).

[Macalaure]

Lommy - others already noted she contradicts herself a lot. I think a self-contradicting Lommy is an innocent Lommy.

Legate - not sure, but tending slightly towards innocent

Aganzir - spoke sense, though only once

Menel - didn't say much.. appears innocent.. we'll see

Volo - innocent by consensus? Anyway, I think I overlooked his post #42. I'm less suspicious of him now. A good reread does miracles, sometimes.

The Might - confused, very confused. However, confused is not the same as suspicious. I'm tending towards innocent.

morm - not much apart from suspecting Lommy for being self-contradicting, no idea

Fea - genuine, could be anything, hopefully we'll see more tomorrow

Brinn - speaks sense, unspectacular

Sally - is present, but doesn't add much. Slightly suspicious

Farael - mute. I'm against lynching him. It's not fun if they can't scream.

A Little Green - makes me slightly uneasy, but even though she knows the game, she's still a newbie here, so she won't get my vote today

Nerwen - I reread her posts and she still seems not only more defensive than "usual", but more tense - consistently. In #61 she urges us to reread and reconsider. Very sensible, but also very smart to say when you're among the most-suspected. The idea of Lommy threatening her is very far-fetched.

Valier - her "lynch the quiet ones who have no excuse" is worrisome, but that's all I can find

Kath - I disagree with her vote for the Might. Yes, she had little time, but still voting for a person who merely "caught her eye" is a suspicious thing.

Rikae - very involved. If she's a wolf, she's certainly not afraid to slip. Only few players are more vocal when they're guilty.

Shasta - Shasta?

Kuru - no red flags here - as grumpy as I recall him


That's way too many people looking innocent. I would only be comfortable with a vote for Nerwen or Kath at the moment.

[mormegil]

Valier seems far too concerned trying to save herself. The way I understood her posts was that since I usually suspect her and have been sucessful in the past, for better and wose, at getting her lynched she better kill me off. The remaining posts seem to be designed to keep her alive, too much so for me to think her an ordo. Call in knee-jerk if you wish but she seems most suspicious based on that.

++Valier

Lommy seems a bit contradictory but I'm not sure if she's suspicious. I don't trust anybody who votes for themselves so the Might seems reasonably suspicious too. Volo give me the gut feeling of guilty and not only for his first post but he seems a bit frazzeled and that he is trying to be visible and helpful.

Kuru, me wanting to lynch Fea is akin to me wanting to lynch Kath...it's based on principle not reason.


Rikae seems innocent enough for now as does Mac

[Aganzir]

One thing maybe worth bringing forward, maybe not: to me it seems that Lommy is protecting Greenie. It can be understood, since she must be very excited to see her play at last and doesn't wish her to die too soon, but anyway.

Post #47.
It could be taken as a warning: "That was not a good move, do something else." Also it looks like Lommy's taking a little distance to Greenie, maybe in case she'll get lynched. I think it doesn't look genuine.
At the end, Lommy states that as Greenie is a newbie, it's possible that Lommy's mistaken and that's only her style to play. Or that she should be given a chance. Or whatever. The main point is that although Greenie has said something slightly suspicious, she shouldn't be lynched yet.

(is bolded by me, as it was italized in the original post)

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Lommy, though... She does seem very genuine, no doubt. She hasn't given me any reason for suspicion as yet. However, I'm afraid that if she is a wolf, she'll pass unnoticed.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Because of the continuous accusations on Valier, I read through her post again. Nothing too suspicious there, except maybe for this a little unnerving phrase: If Valier is a wolf, that would be a perfect guise. If, as a wolf, she finds nothing too "suspicious" about anyone, she can just rely on voting for a quiet person.
Otherwise I don't find Valier exceptionally wolf-ish. Besides, I have the impression that she is an experienced player. If so, she would probably not post a phrase like that as a wolf.

This may be a small, insignificant thing, but anyway: I don't like this emphasizing of words very much. It's so.. "In the very improbable case that they are wolves... I don't actually think they are but if they happened to be..." Ok. Mentioning two of her fellow wolves in a slightly suspecting tone in order to look good if either of them is lynched later on? But that would be quite risky, and I'm not sure if Greenie would do that. Unless she thought everybody would think it too obvious for any wolf to do.

Considering Valier herself, she looks quite neutral to me. However, if a certain person(s) turned out to be a wolf, I'd look at her very carefully.

I wouldn't be surprised to find at least one wolf among these three. I'm still wary about Nerwen though, and I'm most probably going to vote for one of these toDay.
I think voting for Might now is more like throwing away one's vote. I don't think he's a wolf - at least I remember that when I was a (newbie) wolf I was so very, very afraid of getting lynched on Day 1 that I wouldn't believe a newbie wolf would act like he has. Though everybody plays differently, I must admit.

edit: xed since Mac

[Brinniel]

I don't particularly like morm's retorting vote for Valier, but still, I don't think it's suspicious enough to lynch him.

I have to vote now:

++Nerwen

For reasons I stated earlier.

Anyways, I have to go now. But I do think everyone will agree when I say let's avoid a double or triple lynching toDay. I remember last time that happened on Day 1. It was disasterous.

[Kuruharan]

I think the newbie/veteran discussion is in its own way less helpful than the quiet/loud discussion. At least the quiet/loud discussion is focusing on the actions (or lack thereof) of the players and not how long they’ve been around. I don’t think how long a player has been around has anything to do with what one should do at all. I meant it when I said that if somebody thinks another player is acting like a wolf then you should vote for them regardless of other considerations.

Nice selection of candidates at the moment…nice and dangerous for a double lynching…

*makes notes about who started voting for who when*

We might find wolves among those who are spreading out lynching danger among multiple targets.

[Macalaure]

Responding to Fea's request: TM's self vote leaves me a little bit with the impression of a tantrum. He's suspected, he doesn't understand why, he's upset. I certainly understand the feeling, don't get me wrong, but I still don't really understand why he then acted his frustration out. Anyway, because of this tantrum-feeling I get, I very much doubt he's guilty, since a wolf, though he doesn't enjoy it, expects to be suspected and receive votes.

Good points by Lommy and morm against Valier. Still, I'd like to keep her around for at least one more day. I'm putting morm on my "leaning innocent"-list

A vote count, anybody?

Kath -> Might
Nerwen -> Lommy
Valier -> morm
Might -> Might (TM 2, Lommy 1, morm 1)
Rikae -> Nerwen (TM 2, Lommy 1, morm 1, Nerwen 1)
Sally -> morm (TM 2, morm 2, Lommy 1, Nerwen 1)
morm -> Valier (TM 2, morm 2, Lommy 1, Nerwen 1, Valier 1)
Fea -> morm (morm 3, TM 2, Lommy 1, Nerwen 1, Valier 1)
Brin -> Nerwen (morm 3, TM 2, Nerwen 2, Lommy 1, Valier 1)

Looks double-lynch-dangerous. But since nobody wants one and the wolves probably won't dare to initiate one, it could only happen within the last minute voting craze. I would herewith like to disencourage said craze.

[Aganzir]

I think I could vote for Nerwen toDay, though not yet but a little closer to the deadline. Not too close, however - it will become a total chaos if half the people decide to vote just a few minutes before it.

I don't suspect her very much more than Greenie, but the difference between the two is that Nerwen has gained so much more suspicion toDay that left alive, her presence would distract us from finding the other possible wolves toMorrow.

The things I find most suspicious:
-What I said in my first post:

Originally Posted by me

The thing that makes me a little uncertain is how she started behaving after Rikae pointed out something slightly suspicious in her posts. It looks like she tries to get Rikae use her energy in defending & explaining herself, rather than going on suspecting Nerwen. See post #31.

-The following. It's true, but it just seems to me she tries to divert suspicion away from her. Agh, I can't really put my finger on it. It makes me feel uneasy.

Originally Posted by Nerwen in #61

Now I want to say this: the conversation of the last few hours is making me very uneasy. I feel that we're all being directed towards seeing certain types of behaviour as suspicious, when they're not really.
...
I urge everyone to re-read all the posts as objectively as they can. Ignore what other people (me included) tell you is suspicious– make up your own mind, because someone is trying to make it up for you.

-That joke thing.

edit: xed with husband, Sandman and that Baggins

[A Little Green]

Aaaargh someone please enlighten me on what's so overly suspicious about morm? I reread his posts and found nothing too alarming there.

Lommy is still a big questionmark. I don't really know what to think about her. She has been contradicting herself, but then, she's always doing that so I wouldn't draw any conclusions on that. She seems quite innocent at the moment, but there is something about her brisk organising manner. I'll be keeping an eye on her.

The Might's self-vote struck me as odd. I would say that it was more the behaviour of a frustrated innocent than of a plotting wolf.

Nerwen seems probably the most suspicious of those who have received votes. Or, the least non-suspicious