What Next To Read . . .?

[davem]

I'd forget looking for any fantasy novels that are as good as Tolkien's work - there aren't any.

If you're looking for something to move onto I'd suggest the Icelandic Sagas. The greatest is Njal's Saga, & that's probably the best place to start, but Egil's Saga or Grettir's Saga are also incredible works. If you liked CoH you'll definitely enjoy them. Be warned though, if you're not a fan of gallows humour:

One morning when Thorgeir was preparing to row out with two other men, one of whom was named Brand, Thorgeir was walking ahead with a leather skin on his back containing some drink. It was very dark, and as he passed the boat-house Thorfinn sprang out upon him and dealt him a blow with an axe between his shoulders. The axe went into something and made a squeaking noise. Thorfinn let go his axe, feeling quite sure that no bandages would be needed, and being very anxious to escape as fast as he could. He ran North, and reaching Arnes before the day had quite broken, said that he had killed Thorgeir and that Flosi must protect him....

(There follows a dispute over a beached whale)

Thorgeir Bottleback was the first to get on to the whale where Flosi's men were. Thorfinn, who was spoken of before, was cutting it up, standing near the head on the place where he had been carving. "I'm returning your axe!" said Thorgeir. Then he struck at Thorfinn's neck and cut off his head. (Grettir's Saga)

& graphic violence:

Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail-coat and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. Then Thorolf drew his sword and dealt blows on either side, his men also charging. Many Britons and Scots fell, but some turned and fled. (Egil's Saga)

you may not get on with them...

Originally Posted by davem

I'd forget looking for any fantasy novels that are as good as Tolkien's work - there aren't any.

And there's the opportunity that arises for any Tolkein fan. Why not use this as motivation to write a novel comparable to the Lord of the Rings? If someone who has the talent & desire, as well as imagination, then a tale about a quest to do some great deed by a small unknown would indeed become very popular. THough for it to last, it indeed would have to be of enormous quality & of literacy.

I have thought about doing so in the past, but as I am only 23 & time on my hands, it can wait a little longer . . .

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It's been tried. Terry Brooks, Dennis McKiernan, Steven Donaldson.....

You can't out-Tolkien Tolkien. Nobody can. What's needed are authors with their *own* vision, not imitators.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mansun

And there's the opportunity that arises for any Tolkein fan. Why not use this as motivation to write a novel comparable to the Lord of the Rings? I have thought about doing so in the past, but as I am only 23 & time on my hands, it can wait a little longer . . .

And that's what millions (I dare to use that number) of Tolkien fans already tried. And some writers have finished this attempt in creating some of the books mentioned above. Not that I am skeptic on that, but... one should not think of himself more than he ought...

EDIT: Looks like William has similar thoughts on that. And I believe we are not the only ones.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And that's what millions (I dare to use that number) of Tolkien fans already tried. And some writers have finished this attempt in creating some of the books mentioned above. Not that I am skeptic on that, but... one should not think of himself more than he ought...

EDIT: Looks like William has similar thoughts on that. And I believe we are not the only ones.

What is wrong with having a try for one's own satisfaction? Tolkein did this, thinking that knobody would have any interest in his work. Anyway, as I said, it would have to be an intelligent person with at least a highly respected college degree (perhaps a PhD even) with lots of desire to stand a realistic chance of reaching the level of intricacy & literacy required.

[Sir Kohran]

The problem is that those who 'imitate' Tolkien don't really imitate him. All that people like Paolini do is write stories about dragons and elves and magic...sure, Tolkien wrote about that stuff but it's not the focus of his work, or even one of the main points. Tolkien was about much more than that. What makes Tolkien's writing so great is that it is technically fantasy and yet is always grounded in reality - you get a sense of history, of time and of place - there's meaning and depth and significance to those stories.

Maybe the problem is that typical fantasy by itself simply isn't very interesting to read about or watch. Dragons, 'mages', cities, magic swords, demons...I don't know about everyone else but it all comes across as frankly dull. Does anyone else feel this?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mansun

What is wrong with having a try for one's own satisfaction? Tolkein did this, thinking that knobody would have any interest in his work. Anyway, as I said, it would have to be an intelligent person with at least a highly respected college degree (perhaps a PhD even) with lots of desire to stand a realistic chance of reaching the level of intricacy & literacy required.

Nothing is wrong with that. I am not trying to lead anyone away from his attempts, I just want to point out that this is not going to be the first neither the last attempt to do that, and I believe a writer's motivation should stand on his own reasons and not on catching up with some other writer's work.

Originally Posted by Sir Kohran

Maybe the problem is that typical fantasy by itself simply isn't very interesting to read about or watch. Dragons, 'mages', cities, magic swords, demons...I don't know about everyone else but it all comes across as frankly dull. Does anyone else feel this?

You are pretty much summing up my feelings. Yes, that's it. I am not saying that for example Paolini is totally bad, but personally, I daresay everyone could write what he did. Or - and that's the real trick - everyone is writing that. Cliché and nothing as much inventive - everything was here before in LotR, Star Wars and the Riftwar Saga (I mean the dragon riders now); but why not, it could be - but there is nothing more. Nothing of his own invention, as far as I am concerned.

[Hammerhand]

Anything by Alexandre Dumas stimulates me. I will dare say that The Count of Monte Cristo is the best novel i have ever read. It is very different to the works of Tolkien, it touches on concepts that aren't really discussed in LotR. It also gives a great, though fictional, perception of a revolutionized France with explicit detail to social status and contemporary affairs. I recommend this book, along with the obvious classics as a great works of literature.

That aside, A Tale of Two Cities and Raymond Feist's Magician offer a high standard of literature, whilst maintaining a riveting plot.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Mansun

And there's the opportunity that arises for any Tolkein fan. Why not use this as motivation to write a novel comparable to the Lord of the Rings? If someone who has the talent & desire, as well as imagination, then a tale about a quest to do some great deed by a small unknown would indeed become very popular. THough for it to last, it indeed would have to be of enormous quality & of literacy.

I have thought about doing so in the past, but as I am only 23 & time on my hands, it can wait a little longer . . .

It's rather like Aule's imitation of Illuvatar that resulted in the Dwarves. I'd say that imitation as a form of compliment and respect is canon.

Hi! Newbie here, thought I'd wade into this with my two cents worth. I read The Hobbit and LOTR back in high school, and that was so long ago that Professor Tolkien was still among the living. I can recommend The Children of Lyr series by Evangeline Walton, her re-telling of the Mabinogion (Welsh legends). This was what I read right after Tolkien, and it's still with me. I also recommend author Caseal Mor's The Watchers series, which includes The Raven Game. This is a series of Celtic legends, and the stories told from the POV of one of the characters who is a raven. I read all sorts of books; history, historical mysteries, greek and roman history, and biographies and other stuff. I even read some Tolkien fanfiction! I could also recommend Terry Pratchett, although I consider him a "satirist" rather than a fantasy author. I personally like a good tale that you can step into and get lost in for awhile.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by davem

Very interested in his statement in the first response - considering his very negative comments on Tolkien's work:

"I have to admit here, too, that I haven't read large chunks of Lord of the Rings. I realised this after attending the final movie and realising I had no clear idea what was going to happen"

Are you serious? He really said that? That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!

Mansun, you said you wanted something with elves in it? Well, Elric's an elf, sort of.

Like other posters before me, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what would please you.

You seem to be talking about fantasy specifically (though you didn't say so to begin with). Are you looking for good original fantasy, or do you just want to be directed to one of the better-quality Tolkien rip-offs?

Sorry... make that tributes.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Are you serious? He really said that? That's the funniest thing I've heard all week!
)

He did! And yet he wrote an essay 'Epic Pooh' http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.html?id=953 in which he attacks Tolkien fairly mercilously. From other statements on his forum its clear that he knows little of Tolkien's other writings, so his 'criticism' is based on a partial reading of LotR. That said, he does seem to have read more of it than the other 'big' critic of Tolkien, Germaine Greer, who admitted on a BBC book programme that she had read 'about 20 pages' of LotR. Pullman at least seems to have actually read LotR - though I suspect he hasn't read anything else by JRRT.

[Lush]

Well, if you want to have some fun John Connolly's "The Book of Lost Things" is wicked fun...

Speaking of that, how about Gregory Maguire's "Wicked"? He's got a sequel, the brilliantly-titled "Son of a Witch." And a thid book is in the wings, I believe.

After Tolkien, a lot of the writers I read were very playful. There is still that sense of wonder, but it's also undercut with Age of Irony mirthfulness. And if you dig deeper than the mirth, you find more sadness underneath.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Mansun, you said you wanted something with elves in it? Well, Elric's an elf, sort of.

Like other posters before me, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what would please you.

You seem to be talking about fantasy specifically (though you didn't say so to begin with). Are you looking for good original fantasy, or do you just want to be directed to one of the better-quality Tolkien rip-offs?

Sorry... make that tributes.

What is wrong with taking a liking to Elves? What would please me is a fantasy novel which has the same intellectual depth as the LOTR. The LOTR has been done, but does that mean a novel including Elves, Dwarves, Wizards cannot be done?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mansun

What is wrong with taking a liking to Elves? What would please me is a fantasy novel which has the same intellectual depth as the LOTR. The LOTR has been done, but does that mean a novel including Elves, Dwarves, Wizards cannot be done?

You might like Poul Anderson's The Broken Sword, which was written around the time of LotR, & draws on the same sources (Icelandic Saga, Norse & Celtic myth, etc), or Jack Vance's Lyonesse trilogy.

Hope Mirlees' Lud in the Mist should be required reading btw....