TIG XCIV– WHere the Stars Are Strange (Game thread)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I already pointed out how much rubbish this point is. In fact, since I voted Inzil, I'd be very interested to hear how I supposedly threatened Eonwe yesterday.

Maybe I did not word it very well this time - but you were offering ground for double-lynch in any case, be the other subject Eonwe or Zil. In any case, it would still not be good for the village - only leave the uncertainity for the future. And also (I don't know how exactly was the voting around that time you were proposing that, or when you voted), if there were still some Wolves left to vote after you, with enough numbers, they could still do a double-lynch in that way. That's of course probably unlikely, but the general point is that splitting the vote (especially for somebody completely random) was not exactly helpful in that situation.

I don't want to think I'm basically OMGUSing Legate here - I might be, certainly, but he's seemed completely (not a bit, not some, pretty much completely) off to me since the beginning.

How nice. I, on the other hand, thought initially you were pretty good.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Maybe I did not word it very well this time - but you were offering ground for double-lynch in any case, be the other subject Eonwe or Zil. In any case, it would still not be good for the village - only leave the uncertainity for the future. And also (I don't know how exactly was the voting around that time you were proposing that, or when you voted), if there were still some Wolves left to vote after you, with enough numbers, they could still do a double-lynch in that way. That's of course probably unlikely, but the general point is that splitting the vote (especially for somebody completely random) was not exactly helpful in that situation.


How nice. I, on the other hand, thought initially you were pretty good.

Wrong. I never said I wanted to lynch Eonwe, in fact I never mentioned him in the slightest. Why would I want to lynch the Seer, in any case? Yes, I mentioned that a double lynch of Inzil and Nog might be a good idea, after someone mentioned it (I'd originally forgotten about double lynches at all), but how would that have "left uncertainty"? Nog would have been just as dead. Your other point is still not very good - I already gave you the numbers to prove that even if it had been possible for the wolves to double-lynch Eonwe, they all would have been revealed after that and the game would be over! See, Legate, you keep trying to make this into a reason that I'm suspicious and it's just not working. That's what I mean about how completely off you are. I didn't mean to insult you or anything, if that's what you thought (as your last comment leads me to believe.)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Wrong. I never said I wanted to lynch Eonwe, in fact I never mentioned him in the slightest. Why would I want to lynch the Seer, in any case? Yes, I mentioned that a double lynch of Inzil and Nog might be a good idea, after someone mentioned it (I'd originally forgotten about double lynches at all), but how would that have "left uncertainty"? Nog would have been just as dead. Your other point is still not very good - I already gave you the numbers to prove that even if it had been possible for the wolves to double-lynch Eonwe, they all would have been revealed after that and the game would be over! See, Legate, you keep trying to make this into a reason that I'm suspicious and it's just not working. That's what I mean about how completely off you are. I didn't mean to insult you or anything, if that's what you thought (as your last comment leads me to believe.)

Not taking it as insult, never mind then. But okay, then tell me clearly: first you did not plan to make it double-lynch, then you did, so can you go over it once again - what exactly had you intended? Did you intend to make a double-lynch (of Zil and Nog), then? Why exactly, i.e. what good would it be? Also, how did you hope to achieve that? What if one got one more vote than the other? What would you think if only Nog was lynched? What would you think if only Zil was lynched? Had you considered those two possibilities at all? Answering shortly, briefly in points is fine, if I can ask you for that...

And anyway, yes, I am willing to see also something more - something else - from you to make me evaluate you better. E.g. if you list briefly whom do you currently suspect and why... or whom do you trust the most and why...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I sense the beginnings of a witchhunt, but fine, I'll answer.

Originally Posted by Legate

But okay, then tell me clearly: first you did not plan to make it double-lynch, then you did, so can you go over it once again, what did you intend?

I had originally forgotten about the fact that we could double lynch - I wanted Zil gone over Nog because I felt both were bad for the innocents, but killing Inzil would have dropped the nightkills from two to one (I still thought the Acolyte was going to kill the next night.) Then, after I voted, the idea of a double lynch was mentioned, which I thought was a fine idea - kill both with one lynch.

Sidenote, Legate - it was not going to be very easy to make a double-lynch all by my lonesome, as you're implying. I knew Nog had four or five votes by then and I knew no one else had voted Inzil, but I figured it was worth a shot, and if I didn't manage it then Nog would be lynched anyway and that'd be one baddie down.

Did you intend to make a double-lynch (of Zil and Nog), then?

Had it been possible, yes. Once Lommy voted right after me, though, I didn't really think it was possible. Still, since there wasn't a vote tally up and I wasn't sure how many more votes were coming in, I felt like there was still a chance and I urged people to consider it.

Why exactly, i.e. what good would it be?

Seriously? We'd be getting rid of a wolf and the Acolyte, who I thought (and still think) was dangerous.

Also, how did you hope to achieve that?

If you're asking me this, then you're implying there wasn't a way to achieve that, which means your point about me endangering Eonwe, is, like I said, pretty leaky. That said, I'll answer - it would have required the cooperation of the people after me to vote; like I said, once Lommy voted I figured the chances were slim, but there was no harm in trying.

What if one got one more vote than the other? What would you think if only Nog was lynched? What would you think if only Zil was lynched? Had you considered those two possibilities at all?

What about it? In my view, either way we were getting rid of someone who was a danger to the village. If Nog was lynched, fine - we'd gotten rid of a wolf. If Zil went instead, that was fine too - that'd be the end of the Acolyte and we could lynch Nog the next day; if Eonwe had managed to find another wolf with his dream, we could just double-lynch them, so we weren't even losing any time.

Who do I suspect? You, currently. Boro, because I think he was bussing Nog. Inzil I still suspect of Acolyte-ism, but I don't think he's a wolf, unless his "lynch me instead of Eonwe" yesterday was just a very clever wolf-front. I still have some suspicions of Lommy as well.

[A Little Green]

A question that isn't even rhetorical but a serious one I'd like an answer for: why the blazes is everyone discussing the flipping acolyte? Has everyone forgotten we have wolves to catch? A dead wolf whose relationships with people we could go through? Yes, we shouldn't forget about the acolyte, but debating about her/him to this extent makes no sense. Not when we really have more substantial food for thought and discussion.

/rant

I'm going to continue the vote analysis I started earlier. Back soon.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

If you're asking me this, then you're implying there wasn't a way to achieve that, which means your point about me endangering Eonwe, is, like I said, pretty leaky. That said, I'll answer - it would have required the cooperation of the people after me to vote; like I said, once Lommy voted I figured the chances were slim, but there was no harm in trying.

Wait a second and stop presuming. I was asking exactly and only what I had asked - because it is NOT easy to achieve a double-lynch. I assumed there WAS a way to achieve that according to you, otherwise you wouldn't have proposed it, obviously. Therefore, I wanted to hear about it.

These were only questions, and completely "freely" phrased - a mere civilized way to ask you about something. Yet you are answering with rather defensive and sort of jumpy way at some moments. In contrary to what you say, I have *no* intention to lynch you for the sake of itself. But at least on first sight, I can't help to think you are making stuff up, or clutching to some pre-made points of your own.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I had originally forgotten about the fact that we could double lynch - I wanted Zil gone over Nog because I felt both were bad for the innocents, but killing Inzil would have dropped the nightkills from two to one (I still thought the Acolyte was going to kill the next night.) Then, after I voted, the idea of a double lynch was mentioned, which I thought was a fine idea - kill both with one lynch.

This in particular sounds rather fabricated. And the whole Acolyte thing of yours is just weird - I mean, if you are innocent, then I suggest checking whether you aren't simply paranoid. I understand it might be good to talk about the Acolyte if nobody seems to worry about it, but nowhere was written that Acolyte is evil. Nowhere was written that even if he was, he's killing every Night. (Yes, I know, no need to repeat your thoughts on the matter, I've read them several times already, just stating this for the sake of completion.) Nowhere was written that even if all that was so, Zil was the Acolyte. I.e.: Your idea - as you claim it was - of making a double-lynch, or lynching Zil over Nog, was based on the possibility that Zil was the Acolyte, on top of that evil Acolyte, on top of that that the Acolyte is killing people and therefore it is better to kill him than Nog. My motto is "never tell me the odds" and I am against all maths and all that, but seriously, the chance that even if you were right about the role that you would actually even lynch the real Acolyte was far lesser than that you would help the village to achieve something by lynching Nog. Also, if you indeed are innocent and interested in the good of the village - had it never occured to you that the game would be imbalanced like Angband if there was just another evil every-Night-killer? Even if he were to choose his side in the beginning, such a role would really be completely over the top.

I think we have (and you have also answered about it to others many times) been talking this over many times, so I think we can drop the subject, there is probably nothing much new to add anymore (unless, Shasta, you have something that you haven't said yet to comment on what I just said, of course). But it helped me to hear all your arguments in some clearer order, and the basic impression I have about you right now is that of being somewhat suspicious. Based on that if I compare the possibility that you sincerely were thinking the thing you are now telling us you were thinking, and the possibility that you were thinking something completely different and are just making this all up now that you had to answer about it to other people, I must say the other one sounds far more probable and logical. Of course, the question is then what did you really think in case what you are saying is fabricated - since I am not sure if, as a Wolf, you'd believe you could pull that off (saving Nog, that is, or evening the odds by double-lynching him in case Zil is innocent). Of course that's already second rather daring move you'd do in this game (after Day 1 Bom lynch), so if you believed you could pull that off again? Anyway, will be looking at what else you are going to post toDay.

I would like to also take a look at other people, but the best would be to see somebody else post as well...

EDIT: x-ed with Greenie