Unfinished Tales - Part One - II - Narn I Hín Húrin

[Galadriel55]

I'm jumping a bit in chronology, but I've been waiting to make this point for almost two weeks.

When Turin is with the Outlaws, in Nargothrond, and in Brethil, he takes on "fake" names. But in the first two he is still called "Turin" in the narration. However, after he asks the Men of Brethil to forget his name and call him "Turambar" instead, the narration also switches the name! When the narration channels someone's thoughts from outside (Morwen, Nienor, Mablung, etc) he is referred to as Turin, but when it talks about him specifically, he is called Turambar, until, I believe, the last chapters when all is revealed. It is as if he commanded Tolkien himself to forget his real name!

Evidently, the third "name/identity change" was the most significant. And the most "complete". And the name that he takes is the least connected to his past ("Master of Doom" says little, at least compared to "Neithan" and "Agarwaen").

*Note: the Nargothrond material is skipped here; there is some in the appendix, but I'm basing my statements above mostly on COH.

Originally Posted by Esty

As related here, Túrin's dealings with the Dwarves are one aspect I see as positive. He can feel for them and manages to curb his pride.

Strangely enough, he is called both an Elf-warrior and a Dwarf-lord in just two (iirc) chapters, though he is just a Man. He is certainly a great Man, and has lots of compassion and understanding; he just doesn't always let it come out. He asks Beleg "how can an Elf judge a Man" (or something to that extent), but he himself does not judge his friends - Beleg, Mim, and the Outlaws. He becomes like them, only "judging" (or, I'd rather say "evluating") them on a rare occasion. He is open to them, and allows himself to understand them - and himself.

He's a really extraordinary person, with many hidden qualities that he subconciously suppresses.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

There is a noticeable lack of discussion on this thread this week - I do hope those interested weren't expecting a new one for the second part! Question: Would you like more time, or shall we conclude with the last piece of the story starting Monday?

I do realize that Thanksgiving weekend could affect the level of posting right now - if you want to join in but need more time, please say so, and we'll add another week for this part.

[Galadriel55]

I was also wondering about that - where is everybody?

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

There is a noticeable lack of discussion on this thread this week...

Well, talking to yourself isn't that fun...

I think Pitchie said something about discussing the Outlaws, but he didn't post.

[Pitchwife]

Sorry, I was, er, preoccupied with puzzling matters, and I'm a little too tired for serious posting today; but if you'd add another week, Esty, I'd be glad to offer my farthing's worth about outlaws and (maybe) more after the weekend.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Discussion on this section of the chapter will continue for the coming week - I look forward to reading your posts!

[Pitchwife]

Allright, Túrin's band of outlaws. Here we get another look at 'ordinary' Men of the First Age and how the disasters of war affected (or rather ruined) their lives:

Originally Posted by UT Narn, Túrin among the Outlaws

For in that region of ruin houseless and desperate Men went astray: remnants of battle and defeat, and lands laid waste; and some were Men driven into the wild for evil deeds. They hunted and gathered such food as they could; but in winter when hunger drove them they were to be feared as wolves, and Gaurwaith, the wolf-men, they were called by those who defended their homes.

So while some of Túrin's band, such as Forweg and Andróg, were outlaws and criminals to begin with, I think it's safe to assume that most of them were originally decent enough folk, driven to prey on their own kind by the extremity of need.

It's also interesting how Túrin comports himself among his new companions. First he just keeps aloof and does "little to restrain their evil deeds", although they disgust and at times enrage him. Then, after witnessing the attempted rape of a woman by Forweg and Andróg, he leads them into the wild in order to avoid further confrontation with their fellow Men; but only after he has met Beleg again (being thus reminded of how deep he has fallen) does he think of actively turning them to a better purpose and begins forging them into a guerrilla force fighting the servants of Morgoth. It's like he had forgotten himself and needed Beleg to remind him who and what he is.

This chapter and the following (Of Mîm the Dwarf) also contain two jewels of vividly drawn and delightfully morally ambiguous characters: Mîm (who will always remain another of my favourites) with his peculiar sense of honour, his deep but not unfounded resentment of Elves, his grudging respect for Túrin and his acerbic lines of dialogue, and on the other hand his antagonist Andróg, whose shrewd cynicism earns him my sympathy in spite of his rotten character.

As for the chapter The Return of Túrin to Dor-lómin, containing Túrin's reunion with Sador Labadal, his revenge on the usurper Brodda, Sador's death and Aerin's suicide in the burning hall, this is to me the part of the Narn which is closest to the spirit of Icelandic sagas, especially in the cameo character of Aerin.

Originally Posted by G55

But in the first two he is still called "Turin" in the narration. However, after he asks the Men of Brethil to forget his name and call him "Turambar" instead, the narration also switches the name! When the narration channels someone's thoughts from outside (Morwen, Nienor, Mablung, etc) he is referred to as Turin, but when it talks about him specifically, he is called Turambar, until, I believe, the last chapters when all is revealed. It is as if he commanded Tolkien himself to forget his real name!

Nice observation, I hadn't noticed that.

Originally Posted by G55

Evidently, the third "name/identity change" was the most significant. And the most "complete". And the name that he takes is the least connected to his past ("Master of Doom" says little, at least compared to "Neithan" and "Agarwaen").

Not coincidentally, I think - the name represents his attempt to distance himself from his past, turn over the metaphorical page and 'begin a new life' (something that never works out in my experience, as Túrin will find out soon enough).

[Guinevere]

I agree very much with everything Pitchwife has written!

Whereas the style of "Of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin" reminded me more of the LotR, the CoH seems even more modern, with those morally ambiguous characters, rogues, and close characterisations.
In Doriath we meet Elves that are not only good and wise. (Saeros is a thoroughly disagreeable character, and Nellas very naïve)

Túrin is infuriatingly stubborn in his refusal to go back to Doriath with Beleg. "He strove with his pride" and again, pride kept the upper hand. And how could he expect the Elf to stay with him among the outlaws?
What also puzzles me is the fact that he apparently couldn't even remember Nellas!

I feel very sorry for Mîm! It must be terrible to be forced to share his home with the murderer of his son! And even if Túrin had promised not to "raise his hands against Elves or Men" he is not above pressing ransom from a Dwarf who hadn't done him any harm.

It's quite a while since I had read this part of U.T., and I didn't remember that there were such large gaps in the story - the sudden jump from the Mîm chapter to the Return to Dor-lómin is rather irritating.

Reading about Túrin's disastrous rashness and fit of temper in Brodda's hall is almost painful - poor Labadal! But I love Aerin - here is a true heroine with no false pride, doing quietly good without renown.