Noldor or Numenoreans

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Hobbitt_Fan

Tuor or Turin?

My bad, it is Turin. However, I think that even when he grew up fully Beleg was still stronger and more skilled than him.

[TPotSS]

When it comes to sheer physical strength, when Turin fought Saeros (before Turin was even full strength) Tolkien said that Turin was "as agile as any elf, but stronger."

So I'd say Turin once full grown was definitely stronger than everyone else.

[Galadriel55]

As I said before, Turin is one man out of hundreds. He is exeptional. The majority of men, even Numenorians, would probably be weaker.

[TPotSS]

Well sure, Turin is exceptional, but if the strongest of men is stronger than the strongest of Elves, it is possible that the higher ceiling indicates a potential higher average. Especially considering that Elves in general weren't known for being huge (only really some of their lords) where as the Numenoreans in mass were just giant (they averaged at least 6'4" if I'm recalling correctly their measure of half-man height and such).

[Galadriel55]

I believe that Beleg still remained stronger than Turin, and he was a Sinda. Noldor are supposed to be 'better'* than the grey-elves, so their strongest might top Turin.

It is hard to judge two different people from different races when they are not doing the sae thing - you can't really compare. We see an elf and a huan doing the same thing in LOTR - Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli running after the orcs. Also, they are together at the Hornburg and basically throughout the quest, but here their actions are described ore in-depth. I am quite sure you can classify Aragorn as "very strong". I noticed that Aragorn is stronger when it comes to things like fighting, or when he uses 'short outbursts' of strength. Legolas is not as uscular, and cannot work with a sword like Aragorn, but he is more enduring, his strength lasts for longer. (And Legolas probably isn't the strongest Elf either). So which one is stronger? You can't really compare, because they have different strength.


*'Better' is not the right word here, maybe. 'More developed' is ore like it, but not exactly that either.

[Hobbitt_Fan]

This is from a Tolkien letter and since it mentions Gil-gilad, their increase in stature was to resemble the Noldor. So, size wise, their probably wasn't any difference at the height of Numenor. Whether they equaled the Noldor in strength, I don't know.

"The Númenóreans ... are in constant communication with their ancient friends and allies, either in the bliss of Eressea, or in the kingdom of Gilgalad on the shores of Middle-earth. They became thus in appearance, and even in powers of mind, hardly distinguishable from the Elves..."

[Galin]

With respect to stature we have some seemingly competing texts. I'll only post some 'later' examples here, but Tar-Elenion has posted an external history in the Translations from The Elvish forum (which I've just bumped with an addition).

There is a well known note in Unfinished Tales that implies Elendil the Tall is nearly 8 feet tall (but see below) -- and yet seemingly, Thingol should be taller for example, as the tallest of the Children of Eru -- but which Elendil is he taller than?

In any case, from a more general perspective...

'They were called 'Halflings'; but this refers to the normal height of Men of Numenorean descent and of the Eldar (especially those of Noldorin descent), which appears to have been about seven of our feet.'

JRRT, Of Dwarves And Men, '1968 or later'

'The Quendi were in origin a tall people. The Eldar (...) they were in general the stronger and taller members of the Elvish folk at that time. In Eldarin tradition it was said that even their women were seldom less than six feet in height; their full-grown elfmen no less than six and a half feet, while some of the great kings and leaders were taller.'

JRRT, late manuscript, The Lord of the Rings Reader's Companion, Hammond and scull, p. 107

The Numenoreans...

'... the Numenoreans before the Downfall were a people of great stature and strength, the Kings of men; their full grown men were commonly seven feet tall, especially in the royal and noble houses. In the North where men of other kinds were fewer and their race remained purer this stature remained more frequent, though in both Arnor and Gondor apart from mixture of race the Numenoreans showed a dwindling of height and of longevity in Middle-earth that became more marked as the Third Age passed. Aragorn, direct descendant of Elendil and his son Isildur, both of whom had been seven feet tall, must nonetheless have been a very tall man…, probably at least 6 ft. 6; and Boromir, of high Númenorean lineage, not much shorter (say 6 ft. 4).'

The problem is, I've no idea if these notes published by Hammond and Scull are earlier or later than the late statement from Of Dwarves And Men (in which the Eldar seem generally taller).