Werewolf LXXXIII: The Nightmare on the East Road

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'd still wonder how we're to single out wightish behavior. The BW will have an interest in lying low and not attracting attention. And not being tied to a particular side will make it that much easier to do that.

Overall, I'd agree with those who say the BW should not be the first priority here. But as I said, if xe's outed by a Seer dream and we don't have a better choice, go for the lynch. Otherwise, leave it to Tom.

The real question is, how do we get rid of Tom? Apparently he's one of the "evils" too:

Originally Posted by The Rules

The innocents win if they eliminate all evils from their town (wolves and Barrow-wight) - this includes Tom Bombadil.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

The real question is, how do we get rid of Tom? Apparently he's one of the "evils" too:

Heh. I read that as meaning Tom wins if he and the rest of the innocents get rid of the wolves and the BW. Unless Tom's been hiding some dark secret?

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Zil

I'd still wonder how we're to single out wightish behavior. The BW will have an interest in lying low and not attracting attention. And not being tied to a particular side will make it that much easier to do that.

Overall, I'd agree with those who say the BW should not be the first priority here. But as I said, if xe's outed by a Seer dream and we don't have a better choice, go for the lynch. Otherwise, leave it to Tom.

As I've mentioned (briefly anyways), TBW acts in the same fashion as the Werebear did, minus the killing. Having had personal experience as the Bear (and finally getting caught on Day 3 ), I can tell you now that in our case, we should not worry too much about TBW as of right now.

My reasoning? In games with the Bear, it is up to the innocents to find xem along with finding the Wolves. It's much more difficult, however, to catch the Bear as xey have no ties with anyone but themselves and wanting victory for xself. However, the difference for us in this game is that there is a role specifically designed to go after TBW, thus eliminating our need to worry about TBW for the time being. I'm not saying we should forget TBW altogether, but at least for now, let Tom be the one to worry about it. Even as it is, as an innocent, I'm not too worried about TBW as is. He will only affect those with Nightly abilities, which sucks for us if he happens to nail our Seer or Ranger.

I am much more inclined to agree with Greenie and say let's abandon the talk of TBW for now and concentrate on the Cobblers, which (especially after the last game ) pose a much bigger threat to us.

Originally Posted by Greenie

In the most fearsome scenario, Ferny finds out the identity of one or more wolves, and can relate the information to the other cobbler - and suddenly we have potentially as much as five baddies working together. It's also possible that Ferny never gets lucky and we have two more or less blind cobblers who can be just as mistaken about the identity of the wolves as the rest of us.

Indeed that would be a most devastating position for the village to be in if it so happens that Ferny does find the other one and has an idea of the Wolves.

Originally Posted by Agan

We the village could decide by vote whom Tom tries to drive away. If the one who got the most votes (or, in case of a tie, reached the biggest number first/last) is still alive the next day, we know she isn't the BW.

I was looking at this and I do like this plan. My only issue with it is, even the TBW is totally playing for himself, the Wolves might find a way of using it to their advantage. But on the flip side of that coin, there stands the chance that we could catch a Wolf trying to do just that.

Now, going back to the Cobbler issue, is there any way we could use Agan's little plan there to oust the Cobblers? I know it would be much more difficult seeing as there is no one at Night gunning for them.

I'm going to go wrack my brain some more and think of something.

PS: Sorry I'm all of the place with this, tired and trying to stay up for another five hours before bed and work again

EDIT: X'ed with Agan, Pitch and Vanilwamuffin

[Boromir88]

Mod note on Bombadil:

Sorry for the confusion in that first post. Tom is on the innocent team, his priority is the wight, but he also wants all evils gone from Bree. That note was intended to say Tom is included as an innocent and thus wants the village victory over both BW and the wolves.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

How can you people make such long posts already? It's qwight ridiculous. I can't think of any interesting points on rules and theory; all I can think about is lynching Kath.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Agan

I agree with this. If the Barrow-Wight isn't on our side, she's (potentially) against us, and I'd much rather we didn't have to worry about her in the later stages when it really matters whether she plays for us or for the wolves.

Agreed that who isn't with us is against us, but what exactly do two you mean with "the BW can even be really useful later on" (to whom?) and "whether she plays for us or for the wolves"? The BW's stunnings may happen to work in favour of one party now or the other next, but xe wins if xe's the sole survivor, so xe wants all of us dead in the long run.

As for Agan's idea to vote on who Tom goes after, I think it'll distract us too much from finding the wolves, even if we could rely on Tom picking the person we chose. As for the thing with the people who've been stunned coming out, the claims can't be verified (unless the narration would mention somehow who was stunned, which I don't remember reading anything in the rules about, and if it would, the coming out would be redundant).

(x-ed from #48 down)

[Formendacil]

Whoa!

Apparently the game has started.

However, it's a Day 1, so I don't feel all that terrible about letting it slip my mind--I also have substantial chunks of the Eastern Daylight savings Timezone afternoon to flit on and off this thread while I pretend to do homework.

In the meantime, though, I have errand-like things to run.

P.S. Eomer, dear, you can't kill BOTH Kath and me--not in the course of one day, anyway. How about you flip a coin for us--I'll be Heads.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Agan

What exactly do you mean?

I knew I forgot to end that with a proper thought/idea.....yay for sleep deprivation....

Okay, so to continue my thought process on that, I was trying to figure out if there was anyway that we could use your voting plan to try help us oust the Cobblers, but now that I think about it, it would be quite redundant as we could just lynch cobblerish looking people.

And to clarify what I said about the 'no on at Night gunning for them' bit, I was referencing Tom and TBW. Seeing as at Night Tom is gunning for TBW and that's what your voting plan was based on, my idea to use it for the Cobblers is pretty much null and void.

EDIT: X'd with Formy

[Boromir88]

'Nother note on Bombadil, with regards to this part in the Admin thread...

Bombadil may be lynched or night-killed by the wolves and he may never reveal.

If Bombadil is killed, his role will be revealed to everyone. However, Bombadil himself, under no circumstances can reveal his role.

[Volo]

Yowiebowiedavidglowie!

Finally I'm home to concentrate on the game. Unfortunately I'll be needing my sleep and will probably quit in four or so hours.
I gave some more though to BW's role and motives. Although it has already been discussed for long lengths while I was absent and there has been a voice in favour of putting the discussion aside, I'll say what I think.
1. Contrary to Agan's idea of having a common vote for BW extermination, sponsored by TB, I think it will be more sensible to not to anger BW at Day. If BW is in danger of being lynched, xe will most likely start revealing things in favour of the Wolves, such as xis mildly educated hunches about the identities of the Gifted. As long as TB is alive, it is better not to make an open enemy out of BW. Ok, xe is be against us, and we against xim, but there is mutual benefit in not concentrating too much in the demise of the other party. Instead, the Wolves.
2. The BW needs to be the last wight standing, so it is in xis favour to keep at least one Wolf alive, for the game to progress faster. Now if(when) we manage to lynch two Wolves, BW will be quite the Cobbler, though not as self-sacrificing as one. At that point especially it would be beneficial not to have xim reveal what xe knows openly.
Thus I believe it is in favour of the innocents to leave BW to TB, for until we know of either's demise.

More thoughts on other subjects after I get myself something to eat.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I think a good cobbler won't mind to be lynched in order to save who he thinks is a wolf, especially when there's two of them. On the wolves' side, we can't count on them being visibly protective of their packmates either - some will, others won't hesitate to bus one another, it really depends on the player.

Exactly... and we can't count on the wolves to drop hints to the cobbler(s) because it's simply not worth it for them. Even though this game is different from many I've played in the sense that the cobbler(s) actually have a chance of finding the wolves without blatant hinting in the thread. Anyway if we want to find links, we should look into a dead cobbler's communication with other players, or how other players have talked to a dead wolf.

Aside, does anybody else think that Boro included two cobblers in this game in order to increase the chance that at least one of them won't be eaten by the wolves?

Hahaha!

If, however, we think we have a good idea who xe is, or if the Seer dreams xem and decides to reveal, I'm for getting rid of xem as soon as possible, rather than wait for Tom to get xem.

I agree, especially later in the game. Early on, yeah, I suppose we could afford to keep the BW alive for an extra day, but when most of us have died, it's simply too risky to give the BW a chance to join the wolves.

They'll want to get rid of him sooner or later, so that a lone wolf won't lose a kill by being stunned, but they'll probably want to keep him around for the first few Days

This is a very good point.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Bad idea. First of all if he chooses an Ordo they won't know they were chosen since they don't have to do anything at Night

Ah but they will. The ordo gets a PM that says she was stunned (see the rules). That's why telling it to the rest of us does no more than eliminate a potential BW, thus making it easier for Tom & us to find her.

and even if we know that someone isn't the BW there are still alot of things they could be, so it really isn't worth taking so much time focusing on him.

But if we let her go unnoticed and don't pay any attention to her whatsoever, it can backfire really badly later. Hmm why do I have a feeling I've talked of this before? Oh yes this is how I usually treat the cobbler!

I'm not saying the BW should be our priority and we need to worry about her more than about the wolves & cobblers, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't forget and ignore her just because she might choose to side with us or Tom might hit it right and kill her. We simply can't refuse to pay attention to an unknown factor like that.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Now, going back to the Cobbler issue, is there any way we could use Agan's little plan there to oust the Cobblers? I know it would be much more difficult seeing as there is no one at Night gunning for them.

What exactly do you mean?

Alrighty I'll be gone for a few hours.