WW General rules discussion

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Looks good, Mac.

Are we still going to come up with a glossary?

And I think x = 5 sounds good, although I would be fine even with something like x = 3.

I think it'd be fair for a new mod to have to wait as long as a returning mod. Thus, six months should be more than enough time for someone to get a good feel for Downs Werewolf. I think most people (with of course a few exceptions) have played more than twelve games before modding (I personally waited sixteen, for what that's worth) and considering that we average two games a month, a dozen game minimum isn't really all that insane. If we continue the practice of bumping first time mods to the top of the list (which I think is a good practice, honestly, unless of course returning mods have time restrictions on when they can mod their games) a twelve game or so wait and then a bump to the top of the list would ensure that new mods are experienced enough to handle themselves and that everyone, new and returning mods alike, have to wait about the same amount of time to mod their first/next game. It seems fair.

I don't think a person could be ready to mod a Downs WW game after only five times playing. I know I wouldn't have been, or at least have been confident enough to mod very well.

So my suggestion is that if you mod with that few games under your belt, you have to have a co-mod. If you've played more than a dozen (or even ten, for that matter) you can mod on your own, but otherwise I don't feel very comfortable with newer players at the reigns. I have to be honest, it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

I think it would be a good idea to put a higher limit on minimum games required to mod rather than a lower one, because it could also make it less awkward in the future if, say, Mary Sue comes to play Werewolf here, decides she has an idea for a game after playing three times, and signs up to mod. Mary Sue has been in three games, an early lynch/kill in three of them. We're not putting a limit on how active the person was in their initial games, just that they played; Mary Sue could be modfired in one of those games and it would still count. Granted this is a worst case scenario, but if Mary Sue has played enough games to mod by our rules, who are we to turn her away? Do we really want to be put in the position of having to say, "Listen, Mary Sue, but we don't think you'll make a good mod yet". Or do we let her mod and have a disastrous game? Why not just set a standard by which it's almost impossible to have someone not understanding the game and have that be the rule? Sure, there may be Mary Sues who are ready to mod after only a game or two, but they will not be the norm. Norm, as we know him , is a tricky bloke, and unpredictable. I think it's best to raise the bar a bit.

Besides, consider the recent trend of....erm, not-so-serious Werewolf players. To be frank, we've had players not understanding the DLs even after a couple times playing and we've had some fairly heated games of late, with the possibility of players not understanding their roles or doing things that may be acceptable on other sites but that are frowned upon in Downs Werewolf. A player may be able to handle themselves in running a facebook game (which doesn’t even count, but meh) or on another forum, but that doesn’t mean they understand the atmosphere of Downs wolfing. This is not other Werewolf forums, this is the Downs. You need to get used to the culture and the accepted practice as much as the game, and I don't think everyone can do that in just a handful of games. If people really want to mod, they'll wait their turn.


Note: I say this without any consideration to Paranoia's game, so don't think I'm just picking on him or anything. That's certainly not the case. I would have the same thoughts regardless of his game.

[satansaloser2005]

Also, the glossary sounds like an excellent idea to continue. I'll poke around while I'm in Lincoln today waiting for Master Phantom and will see if there's anything else that needs to be defined.

[mormegil]

Overall it looks good. I will post it in a few days when the is a general consensus. I say 5 games is sufficient before you mod. Also I am VERY tempted to say that Tolkien theme is mandatory. I guess if it is not taken seriously and mods continue to deviate too far too often I will make it such.

Thanks Mac.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Overall it looks good. I will post it in a few days when the is a general consensus. I say 5 games is sufficient before you mod. Also I am VERY tempted to say that Tolkien theme is mandatory. I guess if it is not taken seriously and mods continue to deviate too far too often I will make it such.

Quite honestly I don't think that would be fair to the game mods. Sure, you could easily mandate that a game can't be themed on another book series, movies, fandom, etc., but to say that each game has to be Tolkien-themed could cut out some fabulous game ideas.

That's just my two cents, which probably aren't worth much, but there you go.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Quite honestly I don't think that would be fair to the game mods. Sure, you could easily mandate that a game can't be themed on another book series, movies, fandom, etc., but to say that each game has to be Tolkien-themed could cut out some fabulous game ideas.

I've been fairly open on this topic and I have mentioned once but I will do so again. The admins have discussed in the past of banning WW altogether for its lack of Tolkien theme. The rules on this forum are very clear. I have been exceptionally lax in the WW department but it may be worth taking this opportunity to tighten it down. That way if the admins ever look in on this again they will see that there is some Tolkien theme to it and will perhaps smile on us instead of smite us.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I've been fairly open on this topic and I have mentioned once but I will do so again. The admins have discussed in the past of banning WW altogether for its lack of Tolkien theme. The rules on this forum are very clear. I have been exceptionally lax in the WW department but it may be worth taking this opportunity to tighten it down. That way if the admins ever look in on this again they will see that there is some Tolkien theme to it and will perhaps smile on us instead of smite us.

I should have been much more clear, for which I apologize. I don't think mandating that there should be a Tolkien element to every game is a bad idea, but sometimes it's hard to make a theme expressly Tolkien. I do, however, see your point, considering the nature of the forum and all. And to be fair there have been a lot of other fandom games (though of course they were fun!) so I'm certainly not against saying that either X% have to be Tolkien-related or saying that there can't be other fandom games on the board. I just was concerned about how strictly you would enforce the "Tolkien only" rule and how it might affect the game mods' ability to come up with unique ideas.

[Macalaure]

Is somebody preparing a final draft for the glossary right now, by the way?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It's a Tolkien website. We should be playing Tolkien games.

That said, it's really not difficult to come up with creative ideas within constraints.

The very first game, introduced and modded by His Wightness Himself, was 'Tolkien'-ish just by having werewolves be the bad guys.

If you want a pirate game, just call them corsairs from Umbar. Evil horsemen? Nazgul. Talking animals? Set it in the Shire, where there's Hobbitish precedence for talking foxes. Or in Dale, where the birds chat with folk, if you know the language.

It does not constrain the types of roles a mod may choose to include, it merely constrains the types of story lines of the narratives. And really, it doesn't do that much either.

As a sign of respect to our admins and to the website that we're on, a literary discussion forum that's dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien, I quite firmly think that games, whether traditional or experimental, should be Tolkien-oriented.

I mean, you could stretch it to calling the ordos 'linguists' and calling the werewolves 'publishers' and it would still relate to Tolkien and the spirit of the website.

We should at least be making a cursory attempt to pretend like we care about the TOLKIEN website whose resources we are utilizing.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Note: I say this without any consideration to Paranoia's game, so don't think I'm just picking on him or anything. That's certainly not the case. I would have the same thoughts regardless of his game.

Except that Paranoia's game was the first I can remember where a mod's newness actually sunk the ship. Which isn't surprising, because it's not like there are hordes of new players clamouring to be mods. (Last, I believe, was Morsul back in March.) And such newbie mods as there have been have usually acquitted themselves pretty well.

No, I'm not trying to pick on the absent Paranoia either, just pointing out that his was a very unusual case. I feel the upper limit may be overkill.