Pleased to meet you, Frodo... Reppuli?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Today I just accidentally came upon one thing in the Hobbit while reading the English original. While reading Gollum's riddle about "time" I was interested how it sounds in original; for I knew there was a sort of linguistic joke in there. What was my surprise when I realized that the sentence (or part of it, to be precise) is completely missing in the original! After a moment of thinking about it, however, I came to the conclusion that it's not that surprising after all. Translators often have to deal with untranslateable passages and have to translate them differently. Nevertheless, it's interesting: the Czech translator has made up one more sentence, which was not included in the original at all.

I immediately thought if there could be similar moments in any of the other translations; and if anyone knows about it. If I were sure there would be some positive answers, I'd make a new thread about that, but since I'm not sure if it is not unique case, I'll include it for now just in this post.

The "extra sentence" comes right after the riddle. I'm not sure if the joke would be explainable, but I will try, just in case anyone is interested.

In the original, we read:

"This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down."
Poor Bilbo sat in the dark thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales, but not one of them had done all these things.

The Czech translation plays with the spelling. In the translation, Gollum is always lisping. That is not shown by any "sss" as in the original, but by changing the consonant "s" to "š" (pronounced [sh] as in "short"). That created an interesting situation for the translator.
The words "Slays king" are translated as "Krále školí" - if Gollum spoke normally, it would be "krále skolí". "Král" means "King". "Skolí" means "slays". "Školí" (derived from the word "škola" = school) means "teaches".
The translator probably had to make it clear that Time does not teach kings (though it does as well), but slays them. Thus, he expanded the sentence: "Though poor Bilbo understood that lisping Gollum meant "slays king", and not some teaching, he still could not remember that any of the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales had done all these things..."

It's a little thing, but interesting, nevertheless. I am not much sure if it's funny the other way around. Probably not at all. But perhaps someone could provide us with another, (more) interesting "play with words" he knows from his translation?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But perhaps someone could provide us with another, (more) interesting "play with words" he knows from his translation?

But suddenly Gollum remembered thieving from nests long ago, and sitting under the river bank teaching his grandmother, teaching his grandmother to suck - "Eggses!" he hissed. "Eggses it is!"

The funny thing is that in Finnish eggs is a vulgar word for testicles. I admit it was very funny to read The Hobbit as a 13-year-old.

Well, this some amusement. I'll add the Persian (Farsi) translations:

Lord of the rings: ارباب حلقه ها (Pronaunced: Arbaab-e halghe-ha)
Middle Earth: سرزمین میانه (Sarzamin-e miyaane)
Frodo Baggins: فرودو بگینز (Frodo Baggins! names are pronaunced the same of course)
Shire: شایر
Rivendell: ریوندل
Meriadoc Brandybuck: مریادوک برندی باک
Goldberry: گلدبری
Barliman Butterbur: بارلی من باتربار
Witch-king: شاه جادوپیشه (Shaah-e jaadoo pishe)
Gríma Wormtongue: گریما مارزبان (Grima maar zabaan)

[Lindale]

(this sounds funny in my language, as we've spoken English since 1900s. And a note about our language: we've absorbed a bit of Spanish and Sanskrit, but I don't know those languages, so maybe I'd)

Middle Earth - Gitnang Mundo or Mundong Gitna
Gandalf the White - Puting Gandalf
Grima Wormtongue - Grimo Dilang-ahas (ahas means snake) so maybe Dilang-uod?
Goldberry - Gintong-Bunga
Witch-King - Haring-Mangkukulam, Haring-Bruho (bruja in Spanish means witch; we don't often use the masculine brujo here)
Lord of the Rings - Panginoon ng mga Singsing
Shire - Bayan (but this bayan can also mean country, so the next-best is derived from the spanish provencia, probinsya in our language)
Ranger - Bantay
Elf - Diwata or maybe Engkanto, but the Diwata is the Galadriel-type of Elf, the ensnaring beauty plus wisdom of the ages, not the warrior-Elves
Dwarf - Duwende

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

However, I was under the impression that "Cotton" is here some sort of word derived from "cottage" - I believe I read something about how Tolkien "translated" the hobbit names from Westron. Or I am just confused, because once again, in Czech translation, "Chaloupka" means "little cottage".

I believe Cotton as a name does come from "cottage". This is what Tolkien has to say about his "translation" of the hobbits' names (from "The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F):

"However, in reducing Gammidgy to Gamgee, to represent Galpsi, no reference was intended to the connexion of Samwise with the family of Cotton, though a jest of that kind would have been hobbit-like enough, had there been any warrant in their language.

Cotton in fact represents Hlothran, a fairly common village-name in the Shire, derived from hloth, a 'two-roomed dwelling or hole", and ran(u) a small group of such dwellings on a hill-side."

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Reading this thread, I can't help thinking of Tolkien when he said he's "translating" the Westron names into English because otherwise they would seem as alien as the Elvish names. The Finnish, Czech and Ukrainian names give me the same feeling as the few Westron names that we know.Of course, unfortunately, this effect gets lost quickly if one knows the other language.


This reminds me of when I first read LotR in English, and was surprised to see that several Rohirric names (Riddermark, Erkenbrand, Elfhelm, Hornburg) were the same in the original as in the German translation. They fit in so perfectly with the translated names.

Well, Tolkien's premise was that he was using Anglo Saxon (Old English) names to "translate" the Rohirric ones, so it shouldn't be that surprising.

Some names from the Australian translation:

Bag End = Swag End
Frodo Baggins = Frodo Shiralee
Lake Evendim = Sunset Billabong
Gladden Fields = Iris Paddocks
Goldberry = Nuggetberry
Redhorn = Bluehorn (Red-heads are traditionally nicknamed "Bluey")
Blue Mountains = Red Mountains (to avoid confusion with the actual Blue Mountains)
Elf-friend = Elf-mate
Legolas Greenleaf = Legolas Gumleaf
Riders of Rohan = Jackeroos of Brumbyland
Shelob = Miss Redback
The Old Forest = The Old Bush
Ranger = Bushman
Troll = Yowie
Warg = Dingo
The Watcher in the Water = The Bunyip in the Billabong

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Goldberry = Nuggetberry

What does nugget actually mean, if you don't mind me asking? I'm a non-native speaker of English and don't know Australian English at all, but I guess it doesn't have anything to do with chicken nuggets, which was the first thing to pop into my head...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I believe Cotton as a name does come from "cottage". This is what Tolkien has to say about his "translation" of the hobbits' names (from "The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F):

Thanks. I thought so.

And the Australian translation... I mean, are you serious? That sounds terribly funny From dingo - well, I would understand that, but then "Bushman" or "Nuggetberry" (I believe it has something to do with golden nuggets, Aganzir, which is the form in which gold used to be found) and... "Jackeroos of Brumbyland" cannot be really serious, now is it? You made it up, confess!

[Aganzir]

Oh, of course. I should've known that. Thanks, Legate.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Lindale

Grima Wormtongue - Grimo Dilang-ahas (ahas means snake) so maybe Dilang-uod?

Maybe Dilang-bulate? If I'm not mistaken, uod is maggot, but bulate is earthworm so maybe the latter doesn't work either.