Pleased to meet you, Frodo... Reppuli?

[Macalaure]

Reading this thread, I can't help thinking of Tolkien when he said he's "translating" the Westron names into English because otherwise they would seem as alien as the Elvish names. The Finnish, Czech and Ukrainian names give me the same feeling as the few Westron names that we know.

Originally Posted by Legate

However, sadly, I am not capable to make the German words fit to Middle-Earth - given by the geographical and cultural circumstances, I just know it's German, so any further attempts to imagine a "German Middle-Earth" as some different world are lost

Of course, unfortunately, this effect gets lost quickly if one knows the other language.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

These are just so Finnish! I mean they sound like things or creatures from the past of Finnish mythology...

The translations may look like just slight diversions from English but they actually sound very ancient Finnish at the same time. Maybe Tolkien was once again picking these from the Finnish phonemes?

This reminds me of when I first read LotR in English, and was surprised to see that several Rohirric names (Riddermark, Erkenbrand, Elfhelm, Hornburg) were the same in the original as in the German translation. They fit in so perfectly with the translated names.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Barrow-downs ~ Hügelgräberhöhen
- might look terrible but when pronounced is quite pleasant, awoking ideas of the Alps to me...

The problem with Barrow-downs is that there are no barrows in Germany, and because of that there only exists the more complicated "Hügelgrab", which means hill-grave.

Originally Posted by Lommy

but on the other hand the ones that have something to do with Elves don't sound very fitting.

True. Especially "Bruchtal" for "Rivendell" doesn't fit at all, in my opinion.


I'd like to see translated names in more languages!
Where are the local speakers of the Romance languages?

[Aganzir]

Nice thread, Lommy.

Czech - I had no idea it's that Entish language. The Ents' names sound just wonderful.
And now I can't wait until I get to read Lotr in German. I have a copy waiting in the shelf, but I haven't had time to read it yet. Schattenfell, Hexenkönig - they just sound so much better than Hallavaharja or Noitakuningas.

If I pretend having no clue what hukka means, and think about the word itself, it reminds me of some horrible Japanese thing that teenager girls are attracted to. Thanks a lot - I've lost one of the nicest words of the Finnish language.

I have a copy of Lotr in Swedish so I thought I might as well post something. I don't have time for more today, so here are only some names from the Fellowship of the ring. Hope I have time to post more later this week.

A rough guide to pronounciation: å is pronounced like a in the word all, ä as e in help (or as a in bad if ä is in front of r), ö as u in fur.

The Fellowship of the Ring: Sagan om ringen (the tale of the ring)
The Two Towers: Sagan om de två tornen (the tale of the two towers)
The Return of the King: Sagan om konungens återkomst (the tale of the return of the king)

Frodo Bagger (Frodo Baggins)
Nedomkull (Underhill)
Sam Gamgi (Sam Gamgee)
Merry Vinbock (Merry Brandybuck)
Hjortrongull (Goldberry)
Gamla pilträdsgubben (Old man willow
Barliman Smörblomma (Barliman Butterbur)
Vidstige (Strider)
Bill Ormbunke (Bill Ferny)

Baggershus (Bag End)
Hobsala (Hobbiton)
Fylke (The Shire)
Gamla skogen (The Old Forest)
Kummelbergen (the Barrow-Downs)
Kummelgast (the Barrow-Wight)
Stegrande ponnyn (The Prancing Pony)
Myggvattensträsken (Midgewater)
Väderklinten (Weathertop)
Vattnadal (Rivendell)

Dimmiga bergen (Misty Mountains)
Mörkmården (Mirkwood)
Västerness (Westernesse)
Midgård (Middle-earth)

[Kath]

Hjortrongull (Goldberry)

Poor Goldberry! That just doesn't sound as pretty in Swedish.

Kummelgast I like though.

[Thinlómien]

Really. It seems that the Swedish language makes everything sound silly. I mean, look at those names. If I didn't recognise them, I would never guess those names were from LotR - I would guess they were from some children's book. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find Snusmumriken (or whatever the name is) or Lilla My on the list.

(Hmmm... I did not mean to be rude, but you have to study Swedish here and I've only recently overcome my almost hysteric dislike of the language that lasted for years. *sigh* And when did you ever meet a Finn who didn't diss Sweden? )

Originally Posted by Macalaure

The problem with Barrow-downs is that there are no barrows in Germany, and because of that there only exists the more complicated "Hügelgrab", which means hill-grave.

I see. It still sounds funny... I'm glad the Finnish translator decided to use the simple word "hauta" which means grave or tomb. (We don't have a word for barrow in Finnish either...)

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And now I can't wait until I get to read Lotr in German. I have a copy waiting in the shelf, but I haven't had time to read it yet. Schattenfell, Hexenkönig - they just sound so much better than Hallavaharja or Noitakuningas.

Funny you should choose those examples, because they are one of the Finnish names I like the most, both having the exact feel of the persons whose names they are, whereas I found Hexenkönig both impressive and comical (I don't know if I like it or not) and Schattenfell sounds more like a place than a horse to me...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Really. It seems that the Swedish language makes everything sound silly. I mean, look at those names. If I didn't recognise them, I would never guess those names were from LotR - I would guess they were from some children's book. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find Snusmumriken (or whatever the name is) or Lilla My on the list.

Tove Jansson was the first thing I though of after reading the Swedish names.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Fun topic, Lommy, and the Finnish words look so interesting! I like hearing your language; it's so quick and lively.*

There is an old thread which has posts on various languages and their translations of names and the poems. Here it is: Translations You might enjoy comparing some of the languages listed there.

Mac already listed a good many of the German names; let me add only a couple that he missed and some that are different in the first translation :

Gaffer - Ohm (an old word for grandfather)
Barrow-wight - Grabunhold (literally, "grave monster")
tweens - Zwiens (zwanzig is twenty, so it's a combination of twenty and teen, just like the English original)
neekerbreekers - Zirperkirper (I like ths word better than the new translation that Mac listed - the noise crickets make is called "zirpen", so I think it's carried over well)
Rosie Cotton - Rosie Hüttinger (This is derived from the etymology of the word "cotton" - it does not have to do with the fiber, but with a hut = Hütte.)


*I have wonderful memories of a Finnish trio I met years ago, who sang "The Gospel Train" in Finnish. It went so fast and sounded really cute!

[Volo]

Thank you very much for the link!

Among other I found the old Russian translation interesting. But really, the French looks (and maybe sounds) terribly un-Tokienish.

And funny that a Finn started the thread there too.

[Thinlómien]

That was indeed very interesting, Esty - I must say the Spanish one looked fascinating. Maybe I'll know enough Spanish someday to read LotR is Spanish... *dreams*

[Macalaure]

I'm not exactly sure why I did this - probably just to satisfy my inner geek - but I went through Wikipedia to have a look at some well-known names in many other languages (for completeness, I also include those already given in here):


The Lord of the Rings

Gospodar prstenova (Bosnian)
Pán prstenů (Czech)
Ringenes Herre (Danish)
Der Herr der Ringe (German)
El señor de los anillos (Spanish)
Le Seigneur des Anneaux (French)
Gospodar prstenova (Croatian)
Hringadróttinssaga (Icelandic)
Il Signore degli Anelli (Italian)
Žiedų valdovas (Lithuanian)
A gyűrűk ura (Hungarian)
In de Ban van de Ring (Dutch)
Ringenes herre (Norwegian)
Władca Pierścieni (Polish)
O Senhor dos Anéis (Portuguese)
Stăpânul Inelelor (Romanian)
Gospodar prstanov (Slovenian)
Taru sormusten herrasta (Finnish)
Sagan om ringen (Swedish)
Yüzüklerin Efendisi (Turkish)


Middle-earth

Srednja Zemlja (Bosnian)
Středozem (Czech)
Midgård (Danish)
Mittelerde (German)
Tierra Media (Spanish)
Terre du Milieu (French)
Miðgarður (Icelandic)
Terra di Mezzo (Italian)
Középfölde (Hungarian) (this one sounds very strange to my ear)
Midden-aarde (Dutch)
Midgard (Norwegian)
Śródziemie (Polish)
Terra Média (Portuguese)
Pământul de Mijloc (Romanian)
Srednji svet (Slovenian)
Keski-Maa (Finnish)
Midgård (Swedish)
Orta Dünya (Turkish)


I looked at several others, too, but I think this is already getting too much here, so I'll just post the interesting (I think) ones.


Frodo Baggins

Frodo Sækker (Danish)
Frodo Bolsón (Spanish)
Frodon Sacquet (French) (Frodon? Very stange...)
Zsákos Frodó (Hungarian)
Frodo Balings (Dutch)
Frodo Lommelun (Norwegian)
Frodo Bisagin (Slovenian)


Shire

Herredet (Danish)
Comarca (Spanish)
Comté (French)
Contea (Italian)
Gouw (Dutch)
Hobsyssel (Norwegian)
Condado (Portuguese)
Šajerska (Slovenian)

Is it just coincidence that the Finnish (Kontu) is so similar to the Romance ones?


Rivendell

Kløvedal (Danish)
Fondcombe (French)
Gran Burrone (Italian) (doesn't this sound like a nice Italian restaurant? )


Meriadoc Brandybuck

Meriadoc Brandigamo (Spanish) (doesn't this almost sound like Kalimac Brandagamba?)
Meriadoc Brandebouc (French)
Borbak Trufiádok (Hungarian)


Goldberry

Baya de Oro (Spanish)
Baie d'Or (French)
Baccador (Italian) (this simply doesn't sound female to my ear)


Barliman Butterbur

Cebadilla Mantecona (Spanish)
Prosper Poiredebeurré (French)


Witch-King

Rey Brujo (Spanish) (this sounds adequately scary, doesn't it? )
Roi-Sorcier (French)
Re Stregone (Italian)
Tovenaar-koning (Dutch)


Gríma Wormtongue

Gríma Lengua de Serpiente (Spanish)
Gríma langue de Serpent (French)
Gríma Vermilinguo (Italian) (I like this one )
Gríma Slangtong (Dutch)
Gríma Ormtunge (Norwegian)