Was Ungoliant an alien Vala in Tolkien's Round World legendarium?

[Arvegil145]

What do you think of this passage from the chapter 'The Numenorean Catastrophe & End of "Physical" Aman' in the Nature of Middle-earth:

NB Melkor (inside Eä) only really becomes evil after the achievement of Eä in which he played a great and powerful part (and in its early stages in accord with the fundamental Design of Eru) . . . It was the matter of Arda (as a whole but particularly of Imbar) that he had corrupted. The Stars were not (or most of them were not) affected.

He became more and more incapable (like Ungoliantë!) of extricating himself and finding scape in the vastness of Eä, and became more and more physically involved in it.

Particularly the bolded parts - I find it curious that Tolkien brings up Ungoliant as a comparison to Melkor when talking about Melkor extricating himself and finding scape in the vastness of Eä.

And before that there is the reference to only the matter of Arda (Imbar especially) being corrupted by him, while the Stars were not (or most of them were not) affected. One must wonder why he felt that he needed to add the caveat of most of them not being affected, right before introducing Ungoliant out of the blue in the next paragraph.

Obviously what I'm getting at here is that I think Tolkien might have reimagined Ungoliant as being one of those 'alien' Ainur that Melkor managed to seduce at first - when he switched to the RW conception that is.

Others there were, countless to our thought though known each and numbered in the mind of Iluvatar, whose labour lay elsewhere and in other regions and histories of the Great Tale, amid stars remote and worlds beyond the reach of the furthest thought. But of these others we know nothing and cannot know, though the Valar of Arda, maybe, remember them all.

- MR, 'Myths Transformed', 'Text II', p. 378

Of course, that last sentence somewhat contradicts my idea, but Ungoliant's origins were always mysterious, even in-universe - so that neither Elves nor Men indeed knew anything about her origins. But the Valar (of Arda) might have.

And then there's this:

...and that Melkor was filled with new wrath at the rising of the Moon. Therefore for a while he left Ambar again and went out into the Outer Night, and gathered to him some of those spirits who would answer his call.

- MR, 'Myths Transformed', 'Text II', p. 383


Again, all of this stuff is from the late '50s, from Tolkien's reimagined legendarium where the Sun existed from the beginning, and Ea was the universe as we know it now (i.e. stars being alien suns, etc.) with Arda being the Solar system (Ambar/Imbar was Earth).

[Mithadan]

My preference is to interpret Tolkien's Legendarium as internally consistent (where possible). So, the speaking peoples/entities are made up of Ainur (including the Valar and Maiar), Elves, Dwarves, Men, and Ents, though some of Morgoth's corruptions may have been interbred with beasts. To me, all of Tolkien's speaking peoples fit within these categories or some combination thereof. So, in my view, Ungoliant was a rogue Ainu, recruited initially by Melkor/Morgoth.

When one discusses Tolkien's late musings and philosophical writings, those not published in his lifetime, we run into the concept of "canon." What did Tolkien actually decide upon as his "final" conception, versus what he was creatively fiddling with. Canon is in the eye of the beholder. In my interpretation of his Legendarium, Tolkien's notes and writings about Arda always being round and his thoughts about an expanded version of Ea fall into the latter category. Regardless, if one wants to shoehorn them into his final conception, then Ungoliant could be an "alien Ainu" or merely an Ainu corrupted by Melkor who came to Arda.

[Galin]

I don't think it's one idea or the other. In my opinion Tolkien's solution was to include both Round World and Flat World in his Legendarium, and the different ideas concerning the Sun as well. Well, in as much as we can say anything about "finality" with respect to posthumously published material anyway.

And with respect to author published material, there's an example that goes beyond musing: Tolkien revising a statement about the Sun in The Hobbit (Third Edition). . . which (at least in the sense that it takes out a reference to a time under the stars when the Sun did not yet exist) "agrees" well with my reading of Treebeard's tale in The Lord
of The Rings, in which the Sun exists before the Elves sail West over sea.

By the way, lately, but fairly often, I find it difficult to post here due to a Resource Limit Reached message, or something like that. Hmm. Anyone else?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Galin

By the way, lately, but fairly often, I find it difficult to post here due to a Resource Limit Reached message, or something like that. Hmm. Anyone else?

Ditto, it's been good for a while but it's getting bad again. Just keep refreshing the page and you will get through eventually.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

So, the speaking peoples/entities are made up of Ainur (including the Valar and Maiar), Elves, Dwarves, Men, and Ents, though some of Morgoth's corruptions may have been interbred with beasts. To me, all of Tolkien's speaking peoples fit within these categories or some combination thereof.

Just out of curiosity, where are you including orcs? Some of them were speaking entities.

I"m with Galin and Galadriel in having difficulty getting in, sometimes even with multiple page refreshings.