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Old 02-25-2025, 10:50 AM   #1
Mithadan
Spirit of Mist
 
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Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Mithadan is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
My preference is to interpret Tolkien's Legendarium as internally consistent (where possible). So, the speaking peoples/entities are made up of Ainur (including the Valar and Maiar), Elves, Dwarves, Men, and Ents, though some of Morgoth's corruptions may have been interbred with beasts. To me, all of Tolkien's speaking peoples fit within these categories or some combination thereof. So, in my view, Ungoliant was a rogue Ainu, recruited initially by Melkor/Morgoth.

When one discusses Tolkien's late musings and philosophical writings, those not published in his lifetime, we run into the concept of "canon." What did Tolkien actually decide upon as his "final" conception, versus what he was creatively fiddling with. Canon is in the eye of the beholder. In my interpretation of his Legendarium, Tolkien's notes and writings about Arda always being round and his thoughts about an expanded version of Ea fall into the latter category. Regardless, if one wants to shoehorn them into his final conception, then Ungoliant could be an "alien Ainu" or merely an Ainu corrupted by Melkor who came to Arda.
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Old 03-09-2025, 09:10 AM   #2
Galin
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Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
I don't think it's one idea or the other. In my opinion Tolkien's solution was to include both Round World and Flat World in his Legendarium, and the different ideas concerning the Sun as well. Well, in as much as we can say anything about "finality" with respect to posthumously published material anyway.

And with respect to author published material, there's an example that goes beyond musing: Tolkien revising a statement about the Sun in The Hobbit (Third Edition). . . which (at least in the sense that it takes out a reference to a time under the stars when the Sun did not yet exist) "agrees" well with my reading of Treebeard's tale in The Lord
of The Rings,
in which the Sun exists before the Elves sail West over sea.

By the way, lately, but fairly often, I find it difficult to post here due to a Resource Limit Reached message, or something like that. Hmm. Anyone else?

Last edited by Galin; 03-11-2025 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 03-09-2025, 09:15 AM   #3
Galadriel55
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Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Galadriel55 is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
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Originally Posted by Galin View Post
By the way, lately, but fairly often, I find it difficult to post here due to a Resource Limit Reached message, or something like that. Hmm. Anyone else?
Ditto, it's been good for a while but it's getting bad again. Just keep refreshing the page and you will get through eventually.
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Old 03-12-2025, 02:53 PM   #4
Bęthberry
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Originally Posted by Mithadan View Post
So, the speaking peoples/entities are made up of Ainur (including the Valar and Maiar), Elves, Dwarves, Men, and Ents, though some of Morgoth's corruptions may have been interbred with beasts. To me, all of Tolkien's speaking peoples fit within these categories or some combination thereof.
Just out of curiosity, where are you including orcs? Some of them were speaking entities.

I"m with Galin and Galadriel in having difficulty getting in, sometimes even with multiple page refreshings.
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Last edited by Bęthberry; 03-15-2025 at 02:38 AM.
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