Tol-In-Gaurhoth XXXVIII - E.T.T.T.S.O.W.I.

[Volo]

Drat.

If we don't get a foul one on the second day, that is now, we lose. (If the über-goodies don't save the next victim.) :/

I'm almost certain that there is at least one baddie hiding behind the Shasta-voters. So far it's just a gut-feeling, but I'll investigate it.

[Macalaure]

Seriously, I didn't see that coming. If the innocents don't happen to take Menel early, the wolves do it.

Menel only said he trusted Legate and was very slightly suspicious of Brinniel and me. He's basically a safe kill who doesn't leave any real trails to anyone, which is somewhat suspicious. I mean, there was not much suspicion around on this Day One. Lommy was suspected to a degree and some were wary of Brinniel. Nobody was under serious pressure (except Shasta and xyzzy, of course). Why did they not choose a bolder kill? The way I see it, either one or both of the wolves are among Lommy/Brinniel/xyzzy and he/she/they maybe subjectively overestimated the pressure towards him/her/them, or the wolves are playing very, very safe, which would probably also point towards Lommy or Brinniel. It's also possible that there's a mastermind like Nogrod or Legate among the wolves and they want us to think they are overly careful to distract us, but I have a feeling that is not the case (at least I will discard that possibility for now). Where do these thoughts leave Volo? I'm not sure yet. He's still a dark horse to me.

By the way, what are the rules about people who fail to show up for two days?

I'm almost certain that there is at least one baddie hiding behind the Shasta-voters.

There were only three non-Shasta-voters, Volo. Unless you are a baddie yourself, your claim is correct.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

There were only three non-Shasta-voters, Volo. Unless you are a baddie yourself, your claim is correct.

Legate: Shasta
Lommy: Xyzzy
Brinniel:Shasta
Mac: Shasta
Volo: Xyzzy
Nogrod: Shasta

No vote:
Menel, Shasta, Xyzzy

Unless Lommy and Xyzzy are the baddies, that is.

But I was meaning you [Mac], Brinniel and Legate there, I had forgot that Nogrod also voted Shasta as it didn't make a big difference.

I'm suspecting everybody at the moment, though I won't vote Xyzzy if he doesn't appear. Lynching him is a 50/50 win/lose situation and a waste of the game really.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Very interesting, as I would absolutely agree with Comrade Mac's post - I can subscribe it. The good progressive approach of our young brainpower indeed does its work! Very true; Comrade Lommy was somewhat suspicious already yesterday and now, given the kill that was made, I'd indeed think this might point to her. Also Comrade Brinniel could be, with some of her behaviour, a possible servant of the reactionary powers, though here I am a little less convinced than in Comrade Lommy's case. Comrade Nogrod has been quite reasonable this far, and unless we have very strange pair of henchmen here, I don't find it likely that he will be behind this nightly kill.

I could also add that one of the reasons to choose our valiant, but cruelly slain Comrade Menel could have been that he did not vote at all. Thus, he would not raise any suspicion (if he voted for a henchman - though this was not technically possible, unless Comrade xyzzy was a henchman, but even then I doubt any of us would consider that being a reason, as Comrade xyzzy has not appeared at all), and also he could not be attacked today based on how he voted yesterday.

I really hope Comrade Xyzzy is not one of the henchmen, since then it would look really bad for us. Maybe under these circumstances the "two day no-show" rule could be of help, though, as we know, our company has very far to being большая, quite the opposite - there's too few of us and every person counts. On the other hand, getting rid of a lurking threat in the form of Comrade Xyzzy would be a good idea. But definitely (at least if he does not show): no lynching, only if we really were not sure.

Originally Posted by Comrade Macalaure

Where do these thoughts leave Volo? I'm not sure yet. He's still a dark horse to me.

I could subscribe even this, also after Comrade Volo's posts today. Given how the votes went, there is the interesting possibility that if he and Comrade Lommy were the henchmen, then Comrade Volo's words:

I'm almost certain that there is at least one baddie hiding behind the Shasta-voters.

could be something far more sinister than it seems. But this is only a possibility and speculation, and we, Comrades, have to rely on stronger evidence. Because, as it was noted before, the numbers do not favour us much and there are still two henchmen and one villain among us...

So, what do you others, Comrades, have to say?

[Thinlómien]

So, what do you others, Comrades, have to say?

Well, the first thing I have to say is that I don't quite understand where all this suspicion towards me has come from. There seems to be few actual points against me, but still most people seem to be suspecting me. I can't help thinking that there's one (or two) henchmen hiding in this ill-based consensus of suspicion and laughing to themself/ves.

The way I see it, either one or both of the wolves are among Lommy/Brinniel/xyzzy and he/she/they maybe subjectively overestimated the pressure towards him/her/them, or the wolves are playing very, very safe, which would probably also point towards Lommy or Brinniel.

Would killing Menel have been a safe kill from Brinn? No. For if the wolves are after the super science seer or whatever, Menel's death points to Brinn. Brinnwolf would have known she'd take a risk because if Menel truly was the seer, it would point to her guilt. I think your logic is flawy.

I can see many motives for killing Menel. I think, like Mac, that the wolves might have wanted to play it safe and try not to leave tracks. I would also like to point out that he was not really suspected by anyone (I said I had a vague bad feeling about him) so it is possible that he was chosen simply to remove someone who was generally trusted ie some innocent person who had small chance of getting lynched on the next day. In a small village like this numbers count a lot.

Secondly, with a small number of players there's a higher chance of wolves and ranger targeting the same person. The wolves might have picked Menel because they thought the ranger wouldn't protect Menel. (Why they'd assume that, I don't know.) The wolves can win this game quite quickly if they succeed in all their kills and avoid getting lynched.

Also, I know there are some players - like Nogrod and myself and Mac probably falls into that category as well - who as wolves dislike killing contributive & "dangerous" people in the beginning of the game unless they have some serious inclination they're gifted. Menel was one of the quietest villagers yesterday. So could we think Menel's death might point to Nogrod, myself or Mac or anyone else who confesses disliking killing vocal/contributive players in the early game? For many wolves, in a small village like this, could take the more or less safer path of killing the dangerous players, but instead these wolves chose Menel, who's not generally considered a "dangerous" player.

Now I know I'm innocent, I think Nogrod's rather an ordo or the villain than a wolf and that leaves me with Mac. I wouldn't be surprised if another of the wolves was Mac and he would have told his partner in crime that he thinks they should not kill any of the "dangerous" players but rather someone else and they would have chosen Menel...? Now before you accuse me of it I'm not claiming Menel's death means Mac's guilty, I just think that might be the case, especially as I've grown a bit wary of him otherwise as well. There's something forced in his tone and somehow the comment:

Seriously, I didn't see that coming.

sounded very wolvish to me. I can't tell why but it just made a chill run down my spine. Sounds just like something a wolf would say...

Others I think are somewhat suspicious are Volo and Brinn. I can't really say more about it (except that we might be overlooking the most obvious reason to Menel's death which is Brinn's guilt), before I've had a closer look at their posts. It's more like a gut-feeling.

Legate's the only one I really don't suspect of any kind of wickedness. He seems quite genuine. Yet I must say I'm a bit worried about this consensus of trusting him...

Of Xyzzy I really can't say anything, except that I agree with Volo that it would be foolish to lynch him toDay when we have to catch a wolf in order to survive.

[Volo]

Oh my! Lommy, you said exactly what I'm thinking. Now I'll look even more suspicious. I would have said it earlier, but I was waiting for the baddies to possibly make a slip. So either you made the slip or are innocent.

My first thoughts about Menel were that he's the Scientist. He felt like he really wanted to stay alive and was excited about his role. Whoever killed him did nastily as Menel has a history of dying young, same goes from Shasta who actually tries to play at times, unlike Xyzzy (Sorry, I'm not trying to offend you, but that's how it feels.).

The lynching of Shasta felt nasty, like I have said several times before. Very fake. I tried to come up with some points about the players but I must say that I couldn't. It's all on the gut-level.

No, not totally. Now that Lommy has mentioned it, we can't wait for more hints of this type.
I think that Mac is most probably a baddie and Noggie maybe the boss. I have little idea of who the second baddie is, but I do feel that he/she's not showing himself/herself to the boss.

I might be imagining things, which I doubt. Noggie and Mac seem to have a discussion on their own level during the first day telling each-other their roles (or at least hinting).
Their rather jokingly "competition" is a good cover on day1 as it brings some points and a space to move but doesn't truly make the person think of who the baddies are. They have both written rather impressive looking posts with little content.

Legate and Brinniel were my other two main suspects but they feel more genuine.

I'm going to sleep, the sun is down.

[Macalaure]

On one thing I agree with Lommy: if Brinn was a baddie and over-nervous, she probably wouldn't have killed Menel. Menel said very little, but within the little that he said, he slightly suspected her.

But otherwise....

Originally Posted by Lommy

Well, the first thing I have to say is that I don't quite understand where all this suspicion towards me has come from. There seems to be few actual points against me, but still most people seem to be suspecting me.

"There seems to be few actual points against me"? sounds suspiciously unspecific. If you think there are actual points against you, then why don't you defend yourself against them? This statement appears kind of half-hearted. It appears as if you either think you can't defend yourself against them or you don't want to draw everybody's attention to them again.
It also sounds like "Oh, look, there are only few points against me, please suspect someone else"

Originally Posted by Lommy

Also, I know there are some players - who as wolves dislike killing contributive & "dangerous" people in the beginning of the game

True, but Menel didn't really fall into this category, because one could have expected that he would have contributed more on the following days.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I wouldn't be surprised if another of the wolves was Mac and he would have told his partner in crime that he thinks they should not kill any of the "dangerous" players but rather someone else and they would have chosen Menel...? Now before you accuse me of it I'm not claiming Menel's death means Mac's guilty, I just think that might be the case, especially as I've grown a bit wary of him otherwise as well.

So you wouldn't be surprised if I was a wolf, but you don't want to be accused of thinking I'm guilty, but you've still grown wary of me. Now if this doesn't sound a little like the classical "He's very suspicious, but not that much".

Originally Posted by Lommy

There's something forced in his tone and somehow the comment: "Seriously, I didn't see that coming." sounded very wolvish to me. I can't tell why but it just made a chill run down my spine. Sounds just like something a wolf would say...

I explained it in the very next sentence. Menel complained before that people tend to be too quick to suspect him, and now he survives the Day and immediately falls prey to the Night. Nope, I didn't see that coming.

A chill down your spine?


Volo, I don't know anything about Nogrod's role, of course, but I can assure you we didn't exchange any hints yesterday.

[Thinlómien]

"There seems to be few actual points against me"? sounds suspiciously unspecific. If you think there are actual points against you, then why don't you defend yourself against them? This statement appears kind of half-hearted. It appears as if you either think you can't defend yourself against them or you don't want to draw everybody's attention to them again.

There are, as far as I know, three actual points against me. One is that I'm friendly. Second is that I'm stating the obvious. Well, what can I say? "Trust me, I'm not friendly, actually I'm quite evil!"? The third point was that as a wolf I might have killed Menel. I can hardly judge that - for some reason I haven't needed to think about it very much. I don't deny that if I was a wolf I might have killed Menel, but as a wolf I might have killed someone else as well.

It also sounds like "Oh, look, there are only few points against me, please suspect someone else"

Well, if you want to phrase it like that... Of course I'd prefer you guys focusing your energies elsewhere and not accusing/suspecting an innocent girl - especially as we must lynch a baddie toDay if we don't want to lose.

True, but Menel didn't really fall into this category, because one could have expected that he would have contributed more on the following days.

I think that can be debated... There are no really silent people in this village. Maybe Xyzzy, but I can't see the wolves killing him as he's such an advantage to them.

So you wouldn't be surprised if I was a wolf, but you don't want to be accused of thinking I'm guilty, but you've still grown wary of me.

I did not say I don't want to be accused of thinking you're guilty. I said that I don't want to be accused of making a conclusion that "because Menel died, Mac must be guilty".

And now I'm going to sleep, but I'll be back.

[Nogrod]

So idealists are killing paranoids already? That's what I could have told you a long time ago. Those people are dangerous as we all true conservatives know. Just look at the mess these radicals, hippies and other reckless castes of the society bring about.

I have a thought or two but let me first make an open question - and you parrot listen closely.

Does anyone here know exactly what the numbers are at the moment? If the baddies do overpower us when they reach the same number with us civilians then it would be the most important to know where we stand at the moment.

There are seven of us alive on this island. Two are henchmen and one is a villain. But is the villain counted as a civilian or as a baddie in the tallies which decide when we win or lose?

So are we now in 5-2 or 4-3? If the latter we must get a henchman toDay (unless the bodyguard wins toNight) or we lose, if the former, we can afford at least one more mistake. That's a big difference when we consider fex. Xyzzy.

And the rule about the non-appearing villagers would help us as well. Do you hear my words Pooky?

Okay. That's the general part. I'll be soon back with a few more specific thoughts...

[Nogrod]

Concerning Lommy.

Our student activist Mac did indeed raise some noteworthy points against her (#47). I would add two things. Firstly it seems that she has really spent some time analysing the henchmen position (#45). It was a bit too elaborate coming from just an innocent trying to think a bit what the baddies might have thought. It sounded like a henchman who had already thought these things through a gazillion times during the Night and now used parts of that reasoning. Secondly I'd interpret a bit more into Lommy's "There seems to be few actual points against me" than Mac who only says it's suspiciously unspecific or half-hearted. I mean, why would an innocent phrase herself like that? Lommy's is the way a baddie thinks.

A civilian protests that the others have got it wrong or she calls for the actual suspicions to be brought forwards so that she can answer them if necessary. But a baddie then, she underlines the fact that there are not enough actual points against her and thence the others should focus elsewhere. Who - as an innocent - would say that becasue you don't have a good case leave me alone? An innocent says, because I'm innocent you should leave me alone for you're hurting our common cause.

[Nogrod]

Concerning Macalaure.

I said yesterDay that this young student activist has no good intentions (check #24 for more). No leftwing activists have good intentions when we look at the society as a whole. Some of them may have a good heart but that then gets overrun by naivéte.

But it looks pretty believable to me that both Lommy and Mac are not henchmen. Even if Mac kind of treats Lommy with silken gloves he manages to raise good points against Lommy in a situation where she is already under some general pressure. These two might pull that kind of bluff to be sure, but if Lommy is lynched toDay (and actually turns out a henchwoman) I'm not sure if Mac as a lonely henchman could count on surviving the rest of the Days. Maybe I should ask the CIA-guys to put him under a surveillance as well?

But Mac might indeed be the villain - student activistis are villains to the ordered society in the general sense of the term in any case. But just look at his posting yesterDay and remember that the villain needs to catch the attention of the henchmen and that El Gil specifically mentioned that the villain is the leader whose work the henchmen will accomplish.

Now how does this acti-Mac enter the discussion? By calling for his henchmen to get rid of me in two consequent posts... He all but issues a straight order to them back there. So contacting his hänschenmen and giving them their first mission (a hint being: I give you orders ie. I'm your boss as the villain is the leader of the henchmen).

Who else do you think tried to contact her/his henchmen yesterDay? Remember that in a small island like this the villain needs to do that because otherwise her/his own henchmen might kill her/him.

But to be honest, Mac's posting toDay has been quite helpful and reasonable. He's intelligent enough to stop sending messages after he believes the point ("hello, I'm the one!") has gone through and when continuing it might endanger his own life. Or then he just got loose on his first posts and is now settling down for a bit more constructive participation...

That said, the worst I can think of now from Mac - before the CIA reports that is - is that he's then the villain, not a henchman and we should not rush to a villain now if we have a chance of getting a henchman. And I'm beginning to feel that we might just be at it.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Concerning Lommy.

Our student activist Mac did indeed raise some noteworthy points against her (#47). I would add two things. Firstly it seems that she has really spent some time analysing the henchmen position (#45). It was a bit too elaborate coming from just an innocent trying to think a bit what the baddies might have thought. It sounded like a henchman who had already thought these things through a gazillion times during the Night and now used parts of that reasoning. Secondly I'd interpret a bit more into Lommy's "There seems to be few actual points against me" than Mac who only says it's suspiciously unspecific or half-hearted. I mean, why would an innocent phrase herself like that? Lommy's is the way a baddie thinks.

I messed up going to sleep. (I'll go after this post, promise.)

Here just to say that I don't agree at all with this point. It is completely reasonable for an innocent person to try to figure out why the baddies kill the person they kill - we all know that. I myself thought of the reasons exactly the same way and I'm innocent, so to me at least that makes Lommy no more guilty.

Are you saying that Lommy's guess is more correct than the other guesses so far and therefore showing that you also thought like this? That would mean that you have a part in selecting Menel as the victim.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am starting to be confused on some things and that's a poor omen, Comrades. But let's follow the plan and fulfill it by 150%, as I said...
Wait. We have not prepared the plan. Okay, so let's move step by step.

Comrade Volo - the idea of Comrades Mac and Nogrod being villains or henchmen or both does not sound as illogical, however, if either of them is a villain, it's not of that much concern to us (quite the opposite - we should ignore him, as he would probably try to Cobble us). But Comrade Mac seems quite genuine to me lately, and though his behavior at start could have been one of a Villain (especially his reaction to Comrade Brinniel about lynching Comrade Nogrod), the way he acted toDay and in the second part of yesterDay makes me think that he is not a villain (his behavior is very nontypical for a villain). Comrade Nogrod acted half-in-role half-seriously from the very beginning, which a Villain could do, but his contributions were helpful and logical ones. Anyway: I don't suspect any of these two of being henchmen, at least at this time - at maximum, one of them could be a villain.
Speaking of that, Comrade Volo's chaotic and dark-horsish behavior could also be that of a Villain. But again, the Villain is probably not of much importance to us. Only - as Comrade Nogrod now pointed out - if he is counted among the Henchmen in the final count. However, I wouldn't even play with the idea of lynching Comrade Xyzzy, at least until he shows. If he shows.

But Comrade Lommy did not at all convince me of her innocence. Quite the opposite, her behavior resembles one of an imperialist agent surrounded by KGB. Especially this:

Originally Posted by товарищ ломмы

Well, if you want to phrase it like that... Of course I'd prefer you guys focusing your energies elsewhere and not accusing/suspecting an innocent girl - especially as we must lynch a baddie toDay if we don't want to lose.

Comrade Lommy started to act a little bit touchy now, and in the quoted part she as a henchman could very, let's say, classically, try to draw away our attention to the fact that "we must lynch a baddie today", and thus forgetting the matter that was discussed before - her suspiciousness. As a henchman, saying this "wise counsel" would help her to disappear out of our sight and hide. Second thing that does not fit to me much is the behavior - if she were someone else, her touched attitude would be okay. "Well, if you want to phrase it like that... Of course I'd prefer you guys focusing your energies elsewhere and not accusing/suspecting an innocent girl." But innocent Lommy does not behave like that when she is questioned.

All in all: let's wait for those who have not spoken already (Comrade Brinniel... and I am not even thinking about Comrade xyzzy). I'll probably have to vote early in the morning, once again (after some nine hours), and won't be back from then; and don't expect anything much long from me in the morning (depends on how I wake up, but...). If you post too long things I might not even be able to read them fully, which would be indeed discouraging.

X-ed with Nogrod's last one and Volo.

[Nogrod]

I need to go to sleep now.

Just a general point still. I'm sorry to patronise but you know us conservatists. We're such patriots, and proud of it.

If the situation actually is 4-3 (hey Peeko, please answer) the super scientist might do well to come forwards at least if s/he knows a baddie or if we're doing insane choices. Even erasing one innocent name from the list might help our quest toDay if all will end with one bad choice.

(OOC: If I remember it correctly the cobbler is normally counted as a villager in the tallies - and thence it would be 5-2 now - but I'd like to know for sure as with this small village the information will be crucial already toDay.)

Originally Posted by Susie

Are you saying that Lommy's guess is more correct than the other guesses so far and therefore showing that you also thought like this? That would mean that you have a part in selecting Menel as the victim.

You're a bit too reckless with your conclusions... I didn't say Lommy's "guess" is more correct (how could I?) so there can't be a "therefore" included or any "that means" either. I just think her account is wealthier in detail and very much believable. And that makes me suspect her. She really has gone through the possibilities. Read it again and think.

Originally Posted by daughter of a random goat-herder

I myself thought of the reasons exactly the same way

Really? You really thought of all those variants, and got to the same conclusions? You have spent a lot of time pondering this game if compared to the time you spend actually participating it with writing something - and you must be a soulmate to this hippie-girly.

Or did you two have these discussions last Night?

I was a bit troubled with your nonsensical approach yesterDay. You were my only other candidate for being the villain after Mac as you kept repeating how unreasonable you have been (villain needs to cause confusion so talking nonsense does just that) and you had also that weird hint about the great grandma' or something wedding a werewolf...

But now I must say that I'm a little alert indeed.

I'll be back later toDay.

[Macalaure]

Nogrod analysed that line of Lommy better than I did.

Lommy is really my prime suspect at the moment, for all reasons stated above and also for her general nervousness and tension.

There's something mighty wrong with the way Volo defends Lommy. A lot could be said about it, but I don't have the time right now. Villain? Possible.

Nogrod, I'm neither the villain nor a Hänschmann.
But, as long as you don't want to lynch me, I can live with your suspicions.

I'm away tomorrow, so I will only be able to stop by very briefly and rather early to give my vote. I hope I'll be able to read something from Brinniel by then, not to mention xyzzy.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate

Comrade Lommy started to act a little bit touchy now

With this I agree, she's also "too happy".

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Really? You really thought of all those variants, and got to the same conclusions?

No, not really. I hadn't thought about Brinniel's position in it (she's escaping under my radar and I wish her to show up). It seems strange that Lommy mentioned Brinniel from such a perspective. I highly doubt that Menel was really after Brinniel, so much that he'd have dreamed about her, or then Lommy forgets that the Scientist didn't get to dream on Night1.

Still, Lommy leans more to innocent side.

You have spent a lot of time pondering this game if compared to the time you spend actually participating it with writing something...

Yes, or so I want to believe.


Have to run.

[Brinniel]

Sorry, sorry....I got caught up with Halloween celebrations. I dressed up as a dead soldier. Well, someone's gotta send the message...

Anyways...on the subject of Menel's death, I don't see why some of you are so surprised. It's quite typical for henchmen to go after the quiet ones for their first kill. After all, it's still too early to have a clear idea on who the gifteds are and this way no obvious tracks are left behind. Menel may not have been silent, but he made a grand total of two posts, neither of which have a lot of substance. Just about anyone here could've chosen him for a kill.

With all but one of the quiet players eliminated, we now definitely know there is a henchmen among the vocal players. No need to worry about xyzzy- if he is a henchman, we'll find out soon after we eliminate the first one. If he is not participating during the Day, I think most likely he would not be participating at Night either. The question was raised by someone whether xyzzy would be default-killed as a no-show; I am strongly against that. Because if he turns out innocent, we will lose another valuable player (number-wise), and it'll be another advantage for the baddies.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Well, the first thing I have to say is that I don't quite understand where all this suspicion towards me has come from. There seems to be few actual points against me, but still most people seem to be suspecting me. I can't help thinking that there's one (or two) henchmen hiding in this ill-based consensus of suspicion and laughing to themself/ves.

Originally Posted by Lommy

There are, as far as I know, three actual points against me. One is that I'm friendly. Second is that I'm stating the obvious. Well, what can I say? "Trust me, I'm not friendly, actually I'm quite evil!"? The third point was that as a wolf I might have killed Menel. I can hardly judge that - for some reason I haven't needed to think about it very much.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I did not say I don't want to be accused of thinking you're guilty. I said that I don't want to be accused of making a conclusion that "because Menel died, Mac must be guilty".

I get the feeling that Lommy is beginning to crack under pressure. Of course, anyone who is being accused is going to defend themselves, but it almost seems like she's trying too hard. When she says "I innocent," it doesn't seem completely sincere to me.

Originally Posted by Lommy

sounded very wolvish to me. I can't tell why but it just made a chill run down my spine. Sounds just like something a wolf would say...

So often there are those "wolfish" comments that makes us thing: hmmm. But I didn't get that feeling from Mac's comment. This just seems like a botched attempt to direct attention off of her and onto Mac..

Nogrod has suspected Lommy since Day 1, and now with this increasing pressure on her, I do not think they are on the same side...which actually does decrease my suspicions on him. But his whole analysis on Mac makes me uneasy...he's a bit too confident to assume that Mac is no worse than a villian and we should ignore him. It is never a good idea to completely ignore anyone. Now, if Lommy is a henchman, then Nogrod probably is not...though he could be just as easily a Villain who accidentally helped take out one of his own. But if Lommy is not a henchman, then I would definitely watch out for Nogrod...

There's something funny about that Volo. I'm not sure why, but his behaviour seems odd to me. I don't know if I should be suspicious of that, but I'd like to keep an eye on him...

[Thinlómien]

Let's truly hope that the villain does not count as a henchman in the end or we're truly going to lose if we (you...) continue this way.

Originally Posted by Volo

I highly doubt that Menel was really after Brinniel, so much that he'd have dreamed about her, or then Lommy forgets that the Scientist didn't get to dream on Night1.

S/he didn't? Well, then you can forget that point about Brinniel and then we're in more trouble than I thought we were.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Who else do you think tried to contact her/his henchmen yesterDay? Remember that in a small island like this the villain needs to do that because otherwise her/his own henchmen might kill her/him.

Should I reconsider what I think of you? This sounds very henchman-ish: calling the attention from hunting the henchmen to hunting the villain. As far as I know, we have no need to lynch the villain - especially as we can't afford killing too many un-henchmen. The villain is, of course, a threat, but I don't think we should be concentrating on him/her that much.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Firstly it seems that she has really spent some time analysing the henchmen position (#45). It was a bit too elaborate coming from just an innocent trying to think a bit what the baddies might have thought.

Says who? I'm getting worried about you...

Originally Posted by Legate

Comrade Lommy started to act a little bit touchy now, and in the quoted part she as a henchman could very, let's say, classically, try to draw away our attention to the fact that "we must lynch a baddie today", and thus forgetting the matter that was discussed before - her suspiciousness.

*sigh* I can say it again: of course I want that you think about something else - it's not very constructive that 90% of the village is after one person, especially if the person in question is innocent...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

An innocent says, because I'm innocent you should leave me alone for you're hurting our common cause.

What about this?

Originally Posted by me

Of course I'd prefer you guys focusing your energies elsewhere and not accusing/suspecting an innocent girl - especially as we must lynch a baddie toDay if we don't want to lose.

(I'm not saying I must be innocent because I said that - I might have said that as a henchman as well - merely pointing that Nogrod's attack is a faulty one.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

A civilian protests that the others have got it wrong or she calls for the actual suspicions to be brought forwards so that she can answer them if necessary.

How can one call fro something to be brought forwards that does not seem to exist? At that phase it seemed that suspecting me was the popular suspicion of the Day and no one hardly had any good reasons.

~*~

Originally Posted by Volo

With this I agree, she's also "too happy".

So you are not allowed to be neither aggressive nor enjoy argumenting... I'll keep that in mind...

Originally Posted by Brinn

But I didn't get that feeling from Mac's comment. This just seems like a botched attempt to direct attention off of her and onto Mac.

OMG. You people are getting a bit ridiculous now. Does this mean that if you're #1 suspect of other villagers you can't talk about your own suspicions without making your situation worse? This all seems too much like "Lommy, we suspect you, therefore you must not talk about your suspects or raise points against other players or try to get discussion going on other matters than your suspected guilt or talk about time or actually anything else than yourself: you can only defend yourself, but otherwise, please don't make us listen to that crap. Oh, and when you defend yourself, don't do it too aggressively, because then we think you're a jumpy wolf. And oh, don't use smileys, you shouldn't be happy because we're accusing you! Heavens, you might be trying to make us lower our guard with being too friendly!"

*a row of rolleyes-smileys* Just remember to look at this consensus after my death and you know where the henchmen are hiding. Hey, I could consider myself a martyr! An innocent who died so that the villagers realised how stupid they were and where the henchmen are hiding. Too bad I never liked martyrs. *more rolleyes-smileys*

I really suspect Nogrod and Mac, Volo is a bit suspicious as well. But I won't waste my time on elaborating those as the only purpose I seem to have in this village anymore is defending myself. Clearly, if I wrote about my suspicions "I'd be trying to get the attention away from myself". *even more rolleyes-smileys* Oh, and now of course someone of you comes and says in a kindergarten-voice "dear Lommy, we never meant it that way, you can talk about your suspicion, we'll pretend to listen"... *the rest of rolleyes-smileys that exist in this world*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As I said before, I don't have time to elaborate on anything much now, and I'm leaving for good. So, my vote. *points up at the post above mine* Now that did it. Trying too hard. Too touchy. Half-sad-jokingly. Overdoing that ("the rest of rolleyes-smileys that exist in this world"). That does not sound like innocent Lommy at all. I'm very careful after the Shasta-mistake, but I have to vote now and I daresay that I am more convinced in this case than I was back then. And no one looks more suspicious than her.

++Comrade Lommy

Have a nice rest of the Day.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

Overdoing that ("the rest of rolleyes-smileys that exist in this world").

See I can't even joke anymore - it's suspicious... To be honest I'm quite fed up with this situation and I don't know why am I even posting this or wasting my time posting anything on this thread.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The hench-hippie

Just remember to look at this consensus after my death and you know where the henchmen are hiding. Hey, I could consider myself a martyr! An innocent who died so that the villagers realised how stupid they were and where the henchmen are hiding.

No Lommy, you're not innocent and the villagers seem to be quite bright.

But surely one henchman is still missing. Although we don't need to worry about that so much as yet. Lommy's right that toDay's voting record will tell us who Lommy's mate in these crimes against humanity is.

Unless Xyzzy is the one. But I do doubt that as Lommy made an early vote on him on Day1 and that might have put an actual bandwagon rolling so that would have been a very dangerous move from her. Btw. nicely safe vote from the henchman on Day1.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy

[Volo]

Lommy, either you're confused or I'm confused.

Self-defence is what you shouldn't do, accuse who you will as much as you will.

Now you feel like the villain more than anything. A martyr - exactly!

[Volo]

Please, don't give up Lommy, if you are innocent!

If you aren't, it turns everything I've said upside-down. I disagree with most accusations against you, but your reaction is either a very bad mood or something extremely wierd in the game.

I present another theory alongside the Nogvillain and Macwolf -theory:
The Brinnwolf/Lommvillain/wolf -theory. I know that this is far-fetched but it's my typical bad habit.

Nearly everybody except Brinniel has attacked Lommy rather strongly, but now that Lommy is playing martyr, Brinniel understood the situation. It may be that Lommy is a wolf and it's agreed, but that seems an interesting twist to me. All Brinniel did before her last post was banter, comment on Mac's and Nogrod's fights and agree with Legate and vote Shasta. Staying with the alpha-villagers, if this is the situation?

What do you think?

[Macalaure]

I have very little time, but here's a little bit from me.

I like Brinn's idea about Nogrod being the villain. It's a possibility. Right now, I think Comrade Legate is innocent, Brinniel might be the second henchwoman, Nogrod might be the villain, and whatever Susie is, she's probably up to no good. I need to think about the possibilities more tomorrow. The upcoming lynch and kill will be telling, I hope. Talking about lynching:

++Thinlómien

Her recent posts clearly give me the feeling of a trapped werewolf, not of an innocent wrongly accused.

I hope xyzzy gets eliminated if he fails to show up. I don't really care whether it's good for our numbers or not, it's not good for our fun.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I hope xyzzy gets eliminated if he fails to show up. I don't really care whether it's good for our numbers or not, it's not good for our fun.

Well, it's the end of all the fun if both he and Lommy aren't evil... Then again, you'd probably win in that situation... :/

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I like Brinn's idea about Nogrod being the villain. It's a possibility.

So now it's her idea that Nogrod might be the villain. Excellent! Now I never mentioned that possibility, did I?

Please, don't give up Lommy, if you are innocent!

Why, thank you for the encouragement, but I'm afraid I cannot hammer sense to certain heads and I feel like I don't even want to try anymore. If the Villain counts as a villager, we can afford lynching me now and if he doesn't... well, truth be told, if this is the intelligence level of the villagers, the baddies deserve to win.

[Nogrod]

As I'm not sure if I can be online during the last hour (I'm taking care of a student examination and there's a computer in that class but I'm not sure if it has internet connection) I will vote now as well just to be sure I get to vote.

I see no reason to vote differently.

++ Lommy

For all the reasons stated toDay and because she's a henchman.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

For all the reasons stated toDay and because she's a henchman.

See, now I'm even called a man. Horrible.

[Volo]

Umm... We lose if we lynch Lommy and she's the villain (unless the bodyguard saves somebody, which is risky.). Right, Peeko? If the villain is lynched, the henchmen get two kills next night, and win!

So unless we're 100% sure that Lommy's a henchman and not a villain, we should still rethink it all!!!


!!!!

I bet she is a martyr like she said!

[Brinniel]

There's only one obvious candidate toDay and that is Lommy.

Her behaviour is way too odd: First her over-reaction to suspicions against her, then her increasing anger, and now her "I give up" and "you'll regret this later" attitude. It reminds me of the last time I was a wolf...

++Lommy

I really hate the idea of voting to lynch, but it's for the greater good.

EDIT: X-ed with Volo

[Thinlómien]

Well, whatever, Volo, but unless someone retracts or Xyzzy appears, I'm dead. Even if I, you and Brinn voted the same person. Judging from the voters' posts and Xyzzy's activity in this game, I think it's over. Now we can only wait, unless we want to do a double-lynch. As much as I'd love to lynch Mac or Nog and get rid of a henchman, I'm not sure the risk is worth taking...

edit: xed with Brinn, et tu mi Brinn... I would have believed there was more of a hippie in you...

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Volo

Umm... We lose if we lynch Lommy and she's the villain (unless the bodyguard saves somebody, which is risky.). Right, Peeko? If the villain is lynched, the henchmen get two kills next night, and win!

I don't think so. The Villain counts as a civilian, so it's 5-2 right now. Even if Lommy ends up being the villain, it'll be 3-2 on Day 3.

Maybe you are right and she's a martyr. But I kind of doubt it. Her behaviour seems more wolvish than anything to me.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I hope xyzzy gets eliminated if he fails to show up. I don't really care whether it's good for our numbers or not, it's not good for our fun.

++Mac.

I have said my reasons why I'd rather not vote Lommy. I'm pretty sure than Nogrod is innocent by the way he voted. But Mac is a bit too careless considering the size of our village.

May I burn in the witche's oven if I convince you to vote Mac, but end up wrong with my speculations. I'm ready to risk!



EDIT: Xd with Brinniel, Lommy, Brinniel.

[Thinlómien]

++ Macalaure

I hope you have the sense to go through his posts toMorrow and lynch him.

[Volo]

I Xd with the three posts there.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I don't think so. The Villain counts as a civilian, so it's 5-2 right now. Even if Lommy ends up being the villain, it'll be 3-2 on Day 3.

Maybe you are right and she's a martyr. But I kind of doubt it. Her behaviour seems more wolvish than anything to me.

No it's not!!!

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

If the Henchman accidentally kill their Villain, the Civilians are saved from a Henchman kill, who during the night will be too wrought with grief over their former dead leader. For the next night however, the Henchman seek vengence and are allowed to take two kills during the night, but the secret Agent Bodyguard has the choice to either Protect two people or use his regular ability of protect one and designate one as his prey.

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

Alright we'll have two wolves, but the special rule if the villain gets lynched(depending when in game) that gives the bodyguard a double ability will be suspended

Unless! The henchmen are demoralized next Night and won't kill. I'm a bit confused here. But if that is the case, they'll have two kills next Night and we'll lose then.

more...



EDIT: Xd with Lommy.

[Nogrod]

As I said. Today's voting is giving us the remaining information we need to beat the baddies.

Although I agree that the rules should be a lot clearer than they are. But that's even more the reason why we should get the henchwoman out now and not later.

[Volo]

And now I Xd with Lommy.


Possible scenarios:

Lommy dies and is innocent:
3/5 evil people. We lose.
3/4 evil people. (Xyzzy dies and is innocent.) We lose.
3/6 evil people. (Bodyguard saves.) We probably lose, unless we act quickly and very very smartly.
Calculate the other possibilities yourself (i.e. Xyzzy is evil or something).

Lommy dies and is the villain:
2/5 evil people. (If nothing special happens with the henchman kills.) We might win.
2/4 evil people. (If henchmen get two kills.) We lose.
2/6 evil people. (If henchmen don't get to kill over the lose of their boss.) We don't lose, yet as next Night they'll get two kills: Evil situation: 2/3 or 1/3.
Calculate the other possibilites yourself (i.e. Xyzzy also dies or Bodyguard saves.)

Lommy dies and is a henchgirl:
2/5 evil people. We have good chances of winning.
Calculate Xyzzy and Bodyguard.


Did I make mistakes?



EDIT: Xd with Nogrod.


EDITEDIT: evil people means how many want to vote against the village.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Volo

Lommy dies and is a henchgirl:

Thank you, Volo, at least someone bothers to accuse with the proper term...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Thank you, Volo, at least someone bothers to accuse with the proper term...

You're welcome! So you admit being a henchgirl? That is good news for me.



EDIT: OOG: Does one say "news for" or "news to"?

[Nogrod]

Please Volo.

In every game I have played with a cobbler in it the cobbler has been counted as a villager in the tallies. And the set up would have been very unfair indeed if it would have had 3 baddies and 6 innocents to begin with. So I trust we have a 5-2 situation now. Other than that would be scandalous.

And that doesn't matter as Lommy is a henchgirl and we will be on 5-1 in under a half an hour. Or in a scandalous case on 4-2 with both our gifteds still alive and well.