Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[satansaloser2005]

If you can't get someone else in power would you consider thirding Nog?

[the phantom]

I was going to third Legate actually.

[the phantom]

For Rep-

++ Legate

REP VOTING:

Nerwen for Shasta
Rune for Steve
Green for Steve (2)
Nog for Legate
Steve for Legate (2)
Lommy for Nog
Inzil for Shasta (2)
Wilwa for Foley
Legate for Foley (2)
Shasta for Nerwen
Sally for Nog (2)
Phantom for Legate (3)

THE REPS:
Steve
Legate (3)
Shasta
Foley
Nog

DID NOT VOTE:
Kath
Mira
Celuien
Foley

[the phantom]

Okay. That's it for now. Things to do.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Your reps are:

Steve (2)
Legate (3)
Shasta (2)
Foley (2)
Nog (2)

[Nerwen]

Lottie, Sally and phantom– the votes

I'm just looking at the early part of Day One, up until phantom got his first two rep votes. Apologies for the length of this, but I think it's important to quote many of these posts in full.


#3. Banter from Lottie.


#4.Sally votes phantom for rep in her first post– rest is banter.


#5.

Originally Posted by Lottie

That's a lot of red text, Sallycake. Written in blood, per'aps?

#6. Zil queries it.


#7.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Lottie and Inzil- why have you not voted me for representative yet?

Nice to see at least Sally knows how to do this thing properly.

#8.

Originally Posted by Sally

Only if you got careless last Night, my dear Lottiepop.

Well, if he's good, I'll trust his judgement (for toDay, anyway). If he's evil, I trust him to not be stupid enough to do something like lynch the seer on Day One. It's a win-win from my perspective, as he either is good and tries to do something helpful or he's evil and isn't dumb enough to do something horribly destructive....yet.

EDIT: x'd with our beloved shadow itself....or, as I call it, BS

#9. (Response to Sally)

Originally Posted by Lottie

This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you.

Note this– originally Lottie was not planning to vote phantom. What changed her mind?


#10.

Originally Posted by phantom

To be perfectly frank, with sides as they are (only one gifted goodie) I would as a baddie most certainly try to off the Seer with a Day 1 lynch. It'd totally be worth it, and I'm sure I could disguise my intentions well enough to get away with it. I'm just daring and awesome like that.

Ah, but lucky for most of you I am not a baddie. Or, erm, I should say that I am a baddie, seeing as the enemies in this community are good guys. What do you folks think- should we reverse our terms for the sake of accuracy? It's rather weird to refer to the species that exists to kill and rape as the "good" side.

And Lottie, really, there is no need to delay. Every last villager is going to vote me as representative today, as it would entertain the mods as well as be historic and funny. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I received all the rep votes every day of the contest. If the Sons win then all the orcs can say, "That blasted Phantom didn't vote well and lost it for us! Let's make fun of him!" And that would be great fun, of course. Or if the Sons lose then all the orcs can say, "Ha- I chose my rep well, didn't I?" And that would be fun as well.

Note: Compare the text I've bolded in that post to this:

Originally Posted by The narration– description of the OoUA

As such, this latter orc watched every other little goblin tremble with fear of the legendary Sons of Elrond and their minions, and thought a little guiltily that maybe they all deserved whatever they got.

#11. (Response to phantom).

Originally Posted by Me

Ya hoi! What's this, lads? An Elf-friend in our midst?

#12.

Originally Posted by Sally

I'll make everyone cookies if this happens. (Assuming Phantom pays the postage to mail them, of course, 'cause Sally is poor.)

And actually, sir, you do have a point. Stupidly, I'd looked over the rules and roles and then promptly forgotten them. So yes, you would do that, but you'd at least be classy about it, so you're still worth the vote.

Note: If Lottie and Sally were fellows, I think Lottie could have taken this post as a cue: "Yeah, go ahead and vote him!"


#13. Sally comments on narration: banter.


#14. (Response to phantom at #10– same post quoted by Sally)

Originally Posted by Lottie

Or, of course, you turn out to be evil and utterly destroy us all. And then we can all go "oh, that Phantom!" and we'd all be having a right good time!

#15. (Response to Sally at #15.)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, this is what I don't understand, my lass: why do you think one of these filthy Elves or their sneaking friends wouldn't want to murder our Seer first chance they get, no matter how the rules work exactly? Because they'll give 'emselves away? Nah! There's four of 'em, remember?

#16. Long IC post by Boro. Disputes the phantom's claim that we should view the Elves as the good guys.


#17.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Come now, Boro- what's with all the useless justification?

Face it- we orcs are evil. We were created for it. We can't be punished for the sins of our fathers? You know good and well that we'd commit those same sins if given the chance. If everyone keeps trying to paint Elrond's sons as the baddies here I'm going to start being deliberately unhelpful in disgust.

We orcs are the vicious and cruel baddies, and we're going to kill Elrond's sons and their helpers, NOT out of some sort of misplaced sense of justification, but because it's what we do, and we enjoy it!! We're going to capture them, and hurt them, and deliver their bodies one piece at a time back to their father, and their grandmother in Lorien. I say we work on plans to use them to draw her out of her woods. Heh heh heh... Oh the things we would do to that elf-queen.

PS If you haven't voted me as your representative yet, please do so. Let's make history.

Note again the bolded text. Isn't it rather likely that Lottielf interpreted this as an offer of support from the Unknown Orc?


#18.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well no, but I would have a good time, so it all balances out, yes? So yeah, um, vote for me. Vote for me now.

Need a second opinion? Let's ask Emperor Palpatine-

Emperor Palpatine: "Do it!"

#19.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I'm honestly considering it...I won't be able to get online until an hour before DL, and I'll probably not have much time to catch up, much less form opinions, and it is Day 1, after all...you know what, fine.

++The Puddintom for Representative

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So. Lottielf (see #9) seems to have begun the Day with no intention of following Sally's vote. She changes her mind only after heavy urging from the phantom (see everything), apparently supported by Sally (see #12).

I think it not unlikely one of these two is Lottie's fellow. My guess is that it might be Sally, and that Lottie, and perhaps Sally as well, took phantom's post at #10 as a pledge of loyalty from the Unknown Orc. Then perhaps Lottie took Sally's post at #12 as a signal that it was OK to vote phantom. (Note that in each case it could have been a misinterpretation– that doesn't matter.)

That is all speculation, of course– I could be completely out in all this. The point I am making is that Lottie and Sally's voting patterns are not the massive obstacle to a Sallyelf theory that they've been taken as.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I checked the admin thread, and there Foley says she won't be here at all today and only for the last couple hours tomorrow. Well well- I wonder what she'll say to being made a Rep under her circumstances.

Crap, indeed, actually now I see that I have read it, should've remembered that. Well, I hope she's around at least a bit still...

We have a bit fewer Representatives now, which is a pity, on the other hand, the numbers might possibly get thinner as the village gets smaller - which can be dangerous as well.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Okay, I've been thinking, and besides giving Nog a second vote or giving Sally a try, I'm considering giving Wilwa a second chance to prove herself. Anyone else up for that?

I just started to think - as I was reading through these - that now actually it will be a time to start looking for possible reps lifting SoE to Rep positions toDay. Of course, we know very little, but let me just remark to this now. This raised my attention this time, as Wilwa's record is somewhat suspicious from my pov (see above), and of course in combination with phantom, who I think even as a SoE would be bold enough to vote his fellows for Reps rather openly, this might be a way of "circulating SoE among the Reps" - i.e. one day tp is there, the other day it's him voting wilwa, basically making sure there's at least somebody every Day. Same could go even for phantom-sally if sally is a SoE after all, there of course might be more to it then basic "repayment for what you did for me yesterday". Nonetheless, phantom in the end didn't vote them, but only because there wasn't anymore the option for him. But let me say this even generally: if there is some "circulation of Reps" in the future (A votes B, B votes C, C votes A or something like that), especially on the later Days when the village is smaller, then that should definitely be noted.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think it not unlikely one of these two is Lottie's fellow. My guess is that it might be Sally, and that Lottie, and perhaps Sally as well, took phantom's post at #10 as a pledge of loyalty from the Unknown Orc. Then perhaps Lottie took Sally's post at #12 as a signal that it was OK to vote phantom. (Note that in each case it could have been a misinterpretation– that doesn't matter.)

That is all speculation, of course– I could be completely out in all this. The point I am making is that Lottie and Sally's voting patterns are not the massive obstacle to a Sallyelf theory that they've been taken as.

This "review" was actually quite good and helped me to once again think of the situation there better. I must say that Nerwen is right here that indeed the double-vote from both sally and Lottie is not so improbable to have been from two SoE. Still, just the sort of general, well, perhaps probability, makes it easier for me to imagine sally as innocent. Also the chance of Lottie seeing a phUndecidedOrc here - still, we cannot determine for sure whether even in such a case, it really was a signal, or if Lottie really reacted just based on that. To me, at least, interpretating this as "signal" sounds rather farfetched - but then again, Nerwen thinks so and I am not Lottie, and maybe she might have thought similarly to Nerwen? Well, another of many points to consider in relation to, sigh, the phantom (I would like some time to get some points to consider about somebody else!).

It would have been perhaps good to likewise analyse Mira's relation to the whole subject, as the last phantom-voter, but actually, she hasn't been around so much now, has she? Actually, there were quite many people who were not so active during the first half of toDay - I would like to see them further, if it's possible. People like Kath, or Celuien (would really like to look at her now that I have considered her votes)...

Generally, a few thoughts on people after this: considering all I said now, it once again shifts my view of tp even a bit more to the innocent side - or, at most, thinking (if Nerwen's interpretation was correct) that tp could be the undecided orc, if not innocent (basically, not Lottie's fellow, that was the point). I am still thinking quite good of Nerwen, although of course the whole post could have been made to further frame innocent sally or on the other hand, make us think Lottie and phantom are not fellows. Considering how Nerwen and tp have been upon each other, though, it would be curious to find them fellow Wolves - on the other hand, perhaps in circumstances we have, especially if you do not need to become a Rep yourself, you can go into large-scale fights with your packmate and still not worry about it, as long as you don't get into the position where you should vote for them.

I am quite happy with the Reps we have, especially Steve I still trust quite a lot, Folwren (if she is around) also seemed okay. I actually haven't focused on shasta much this far, perhaps this is a good time and good chance to start. Nog is nice choice too, although I don't have particular opinions on him in this game, but then again, I think if I had, it would have meant that I found something suspicious about him, which I did not.

Off for a while, will be back in several hours. Looking forward to see some posts... May The Phorc Not Be Among Them in excessive amount.

[A Little Green]

I'm pretty happy with our reps. All of them, in fact. I'm pretty sure Shasta and Foley are innocent, and Nog, Steve and Legate are all players I'm inclined to find more innocentish than not but that I'd love to get a better feel of. Looking forwards to seeing what they will do! I'm feeling optimistic right now.

Originally Posted by Noggins

Let's see a pack of representatives emerging from the voting!

What a choice of words..

Originally Posted by Lommie

Wilwa seems fishy but possibly in an innocent way

Eh? How can you be fishy in an innocent way?

Nerwen's post about Sally, Lottie and phantom is very interesting. Certainly doesn't make me feel better about Sally.

[A Little Green]

Is there anyone around? I wouldn't mind a chat.

[Kath]

I'm sorry. I was fully intending to vote toDay but I thought it was by 7pm (my time) today that we had to vote for Reps. 48 hour Days are complicated! Anyway I'll get reading and try to come up with something useful.

I've skimmed the last couple of pages and to answer, I think it was phantom, I wouldn't have voted sally for Rep. Well, I don't know. I certainly wouldn't want you BOTH as Reps - one or the other maybe. I would have gone for Lommy as I think she did well yesterDay ... or maybe Legate as he seems to be pretty involved and sounds innocent to me. Nerwen as well possibly, her nitpicky fighting with phantom suggests innocence to me - she's often a little more blase as a wolf (Elf, whatever). As to the idea of making quieter players Reps to try and draw them out - fine if they're quiet because they're lurkers, not so fine if they're quiet because they're just plain not around as you may well end up with votes getting lost.

Off to read. Will probably make that list of opinions phantom asked for.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Nerwen's post about Sally, Lottie and phantom is very interesting. Certainly doesn't make me feel better about Sally.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Also the chance of Lottie seeing a phUndecidedOrc here - still, we cannot determine for sure whether even in such a case, it really was a signal, or if Lottie really reacted just based on that. To me, at least, interpretating this as "signal" sounds rather farfetched - but then again, Nerwen thinks so and I am not Lottie, and maybe she might have thought similarly to Nerwen? Well, another of many points to consider in relation to, sigh, the phantom (I would like some time to get some points to consider about somebody else!).

I wouldn't want to depend too much on my own reasoning there, either to discount phantom as an SoE or show Sally must be one– as I said, it's just speculation. However, Lottie's "Legate-180" on phantom is odd enough that it's worth trying to think of an explanation. One thing that stands out is that Lottie's vote for phantom was probably not something pre-arranged during the Night– so we shouldn't argue from the assumption that it was, as some I think have been doing. (That's not absolutely certain, though– her reluctance could have been staged, of course.)

Originally Posted by Legate

It would have been perhaps good to likewise analyse Mira's relation to the whole subject, as the last phantom-voter, but actually, she hasn't been around so much now, has she?

Has she been around at all since her original vote?

EDIT:X'd with Kath; added comment.

[Thinlómien]

I'm back...

The rep pool seems nice, a good mix of people whom I trust (Legate), almost trust (Nog, Foley, Steve) and don't trust (Shasta). What doesn't seem nice, though, is the fact that so many people didn't vote. We don't really need that in a village where two ordos have already been modfired...

Originally Posted by Greenie

Eh? How can you be fishy in an innocent way?

Well, sometimes people seem kind of weird or suspicious but they just do it the way that you start thinking they are probably just weird innocents. However, you need not worry about that so much because currently I'm actually thinking Wilwa is fishy in a not-so-innocent way...

Today I'm going to
- reread what happened on the latter half of yesterDay after I left and try to draw conclusions
- decide whom I find suspicious and lobby for their death

But I'm warning you I have seemingly caught a flu and if it's the same one Agan had a week ago I may yet develop a high fever to make myself very ineffective. Currently feeling quite fine though so probably trying to get something done right now...


edit: celled with Nerwie

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I wouldn't want to depend too much on my own reasoning there, either to discount phantom as an SoE or show Sally must be one– as I said, it's just speculation.

Barring Seer reveals, this game is all about speculation, isn't it? I'm not saying Sally must be an elf, but her behaviour really makes me suspect she is - and when you gave a more or less logical explanation as to why she and Lottie could have been elves together after all I naturally felt inclined to agree with it. Does that make sense?

Nerwen, if you're still around: who are your top suspects and why?

Also, yay for Kath's reappearance!

[Nogrod]

Thank you for your trust. I'll try to be worth it. But as you probably know, I need to vote about four hours before the DL the latest so I'm not able to be there around the DL (that being 4am) as I have an early morning call tomorrow.

I have now read all there is. I will take stuff to my memorystick and head back home soon and then do some thinking there to come back to this pub later in the evening - as I don't think I should sit here for eight hours drinking beer and end up worse than Rune would have been were he made a representative...

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I'm not saying Sally must be an elf, but her behaviour really makes me suspect she is - and when you gave a more or less logical explanation as to why she and Lottie could have been elves together after all I naturally felt inclined to agree with it.

The problem here is that there is also another logical explanation. So let's leave this matter to the seer, honestly.

We might do with an analysis also on Lottie's relations to everyone, not only an analysis that has been limited to this predetermined supposition of Sally - Lottie - phantom forming a triangle. If I'm correct in thinking that Sally & tp are innocents then I could see the SoE's be more than happy to keep up the impression that S & tp are tied to Lottie and should be only be handled in the context of their relation to Lottielf. So we should also check Lottie's other contacts...

[Nerwen]

Wilwa, Day One (first half)
#86. Long post about how we should arrange the voting– thinks we should have many reps, with none having more than two votes.


#94. More on voting. Will not talk about tp "because Day 1s are always about him". Does not like Sally and Lottie's votes, but does not find either of them suspicious: "they enjoy doing crazy things". Will not rep-vote them, though. Likes Lommy, Legate, Boro, Nog and Greenie.


#119. Will make vote-count.


#121. Vote-count. Advises that nobody should give tp a fourth vote, and that the votes in general should be spread out.


#127. Defends her voting-plan against Steve's criticism. Might vote Nog, Lommy, Boro, Legate, Greenie, Izzy, Zil or me. (i.e. half the village!) Will decide later. Will be around at DL.


#129. Asks Fea if all reps automatically get 2 votes.


#135Declines to vote phantom, again defends her plan to Steve.


#157. Vote count. Will not vote for anyone without a vote already, in case it goes to waste. Now considering Boro or Lommy. Finds tp's vote for Cel "a tad odd", but does not object, as she likes the idea of voting some quiet people.


#159. Votes Lommy "Because I agreed with her today, and she's a very logical person, so I trust her to make a good choice."


#164, #167. Minor argument'clarification request about the voting rules.


#169.Wants to elect quiet players.


#170, #176. Banter with Fea.

#181. Suspects Foley confused Zil and Izzy. (This was the case.)


#186. Banter about votes. Will be back later.




Wilwa, Day One (second half)

#220. Is back.

#227. Is having computer problems.


#258. Banter with Fea. Phantom is being silly. Defends her voting-plan.

Has no idea who to vote; asks for suggestions:

Originally Posted by Wilwa

If the people who voted me in (Boro and Izzy right?) could like write my name in all caps and bold it (WILWA) like so, so that I can see it, and then say who they want to vote for, I'll take those suggestions into consideration and likely go for one of those, because I haven't been around enough to make much of an informed decision, unfortunately, and likely won't have the time too, and since there is going to be so few votes I don't want to make it random, so I'd rather go off their more informed opinions.

#289. Agrees with Xed that phantom isn't suspicious:

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Especially in games like this, where the dynamic is different, he waltzes in with some idea along the lines of "I'm the bestest and the smartest, do what I say and we win", so we really can't suspect him for that.

Of Sally and Lottie:

Originally Posted by Wilwa

I hearts them greatly *snuggles*, but would be willing to lynch them both. At the moment the way Lottie defended Phantom so much earlier seemed strange to me (I think it was Nerwen she was talking back and forth with, and the whole exchange was just so weird), so I'd be leaning more towards her, she just seems so sneaky.

Fine with Boro, with give Glirdan a pass for the moment, likes Xed, Shasta and Nog. Neutral about everyone else.


#295. Banter. Defends phantom.


#297. Vote count. Notes that phantom's vote will probably decide the lynch.


#298. Casts a vote each for Lottie and Sally.

Comments: Wilwa posts a lot without saying much; general tone of breathless gaiety is reminiscent of her wolf-style; only starts suspecting Lottie when the latter is clearly in trouble. So yeah, she might be a wolf– but surely only if Sally isn't, because otherwise voting them both would be an insane risk.

EDIT: typo.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Barring Seer reveals, this game is all about speculation, isn't it? I'm not saying Sally must be an elf, but her behaviour really makes me suspect she is - and when you gave a more or less logical explanation as to why she and Lottie could have been elves together after all I naturally felt inclined to agree with it. Does that make sense?

Yes.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Nerwen, if you're still around: who are your top suspects and why?

Oh, Sally, of course. And after her, those shady characters Xed and Mira– though of course there's not much to go on with either of them. And maybe Wilwa on Day One, now that I've looked at her, though not as Sally's partner. And maybe Zil, though that's for something very slight.

And I haven't ruled out the phantom yet, either.

[Thinlómien]

Nerwen's analysis doesn't really make Wilwa look any better in my eyes. However, what I'd love to do is going through Lottie's relations with others, but somehow I'm not sure I have the energy. Blah. I'm off to reread the last hours of Day1, and then I will hopefully either gather my thoughts about people or possibly try the Lottie-thing. If someone feels up to analysis, though, that would be a lovely thing to do. *hint hint*

edit: xed with Nerwen

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Celery

And no, Noggie and Lommie, I'm not playing a phorc phiddle... but I do find it fun to be in-role as an orc. *throws disgusting and probably questionably procured items in a bubbling cauldron of smelly stew* If suspicion of me is only based on being in role, that's interesting, and will place my eye in the direction of said suspectors.

It's not based on that. It's a general feeling I can't shake which is based on your playing style. Something is off there. I know these kind of suspicions are very annoying for the recipient because you can't really defend yourself against them, but I don't have anything else against you atm.

Funny that the two whom phantom wanted to see dead yesterDay ended up modfired toDay... Phantom dear, are you sure you haven't been bribing our moddesses?

Unless both Sally and Lottie are wolves, then wolf-phantom would've been wise to change his mind about Sally a bit earlier on and voted her and saved Lottie. This makes him seem more innocent (until/unless sally is proved a wolf, which wouldn't be that big a surprise). Also, he seems too impassionate in the end of the voting on Day1 to have any serious interest on the income, which he would've had had he been a wolf with (just) Lottie.

Okay I think I will make some sort of a summary about what I feel about people...

[Thinlómien]

Rather innocent
Greenie - I think I can read her at the moment, and she seems like her innocent self. Simply, there's nothing particularily suspicious in the way she acts.
Legate - see above (except replace "she" with "he" ).

Relatively innocent
Eönwë - nothing I've seen from him really makes me worry, but it's been ages since I played with him so I have this uncomfortable feeling he might be fooling me all the time as I don't know what to expect and I'm not realising it.
Nogrod - lacks the carefulness and certain opinionatedness of the typical Nogwolf. Still far from sure, since I tend to fail at reading him.
Phantom - all in all, he seems more innocent and guilty, simply like the cunning yet annoying plotty-phanty. But like I said, if Sally turns out to be a wolf, we need serious reconsiderations.
Rune - I think a Runewolf tends to be more touchy and less genuine-feeling. Rune hasn't been threatened much yet though, so if he has fur, it's been quite easy to hide it.

Middle
Foley - I used to think her very innocent, but now she hasn't been around, so I have started to doubt my quite hasty conslusions on her alignment. Would love to see more of her, but still not too worried yet!
Nerwen - she's so difficult! Reading her posts, every second screams innocent and every second screams wolf. Currently leaning slightly innocent.
Shasta - uses 90% of his energy arguing with tp. Unusual? No. Good cover for a SoE? Yes. *deep sigh* There's something I don't trust in his manner, but then again, would he really be this single-minded as a wolf?
Zillo - I tend to suspect him always a bit based on his playing style. But if I think reasonably, he seems quite good this far. I'm not worried but I'd love to see more of him.

No clue
Kath - glad to see her around. Need more data, though.
Mira - seriously, gal, say SOMETHING.

Suspicious
Celuien - like I said, it's just a gut-feeling. Something seems off with her posting style. And like somebody pointed out, her vote wasn't the least suspicious one yesterDay.
Sally - well there is something going on here too. I have to say she is weirdly kind of flying under my radar, but I don't like her attitude in this game. Too chirpy.
Vanilla muffin - although the reasoning of it is plausible, her "either way" vote yesterDay is just too convenient. Also, I get the Wolfwa vibes from the tone of her posts - there's something out-of-place there which might be that she's being evil ie against her true nature.

[Kath]

About the kill: Given Izzy's focus on Lottie as being guilty it makes sense for her to be Night killed. I think it was her who said 'usually I can get Glirdan's guilt but this time I've got nada' or something along those lines. Possibly could have been read as a Seer hint, as well as her pursuit of Lottie.

phantom - to be honest I can never read him. Don't like his playing style. Doesn't mean he's evil. If he's good then great, let's hope he plays for his side to win this game.

wilwa - I quite like her explanation of her behaviour yesterDay. It was calm, measured and sensible. Not to say she doesn't know how not to come off as defensive if evil, but it looks okay to me. This: "if he's just an Ordo who was maybe trying to protect the Seer for a Night (though I can't see Phantom putting himself in the line of fire like that, at least not on the first Day)." she's wrong about - phantom often does that. Or some other strange plan that puts himself in the firing line rather than an actual Gifted. I see no problem with her splitting her vote either. Well, no, about the undecided Orc. While they hadn't officially chosen to be evil before Night 2 there is no reason they couldn't play towards that decision previously to that. AND wilwa reads that post of sally's as 'well done phantom'. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe she WAS saying that. It just didn't read that way to me. wilwa was a little flippant about the defensiveness thing, but when you've been suspected for just trying to give an explanation enough times it does get irritating. "Kath: since she hasn't been on much, being a rep might get her to participate more." See my earlier post for why this might not be a good idea! If you do it, just make sure someone tells me!

sally - "There's very few better ways to test Phantom than to give him power, and the best time to do that is on the first Day when he can be vocal and annoying but do hopefully very little damage. And look at that, we got a wolf." Someone suggested that this was sally saying 'we voted phantom and he got us a wolf'. I don't think that's what she's saying. The two comments are next to each other but not related. I don't really like the 'I thought Lottie was wolvish but didn't want to comment on it' part. Being incoherent is fine, so long as you're imparting some information about your thoughts! (Well, at least, I posted a paragraph of utter rubbish about two games ago but at least it showed some evidence of what I was thinking - don't know if anyone picked out what I was trying to say though. ) Quite like her post about phantom though. It is a good description/explanation of his playing. Um, why when Nerwen pointed out what Shasta actually meant did sally still find it suspicious but when Shasta makes exactly the same point it's ok?

Inzil - "I could see no reason he would have legitimately revealed on Day 1, so I was already sceptical. But why would the elves not have taken him anyway to be on the safe side? There's no one to protect him." Because of exactly what you just said, you've answered your own question. No one thought it was real, they probably thought they had a better target in Izzy, and they figured leave him be to dominate more of the discussion toDay. "Kath- She's playing?" <-- Pah. Kinda repeating what others have said on phantom ... but then so am I.

Celuien - phantom had an interesting point about Celuien with the vote for Boro, got to say I didn't pick up much from her yesterDay when I skimmed through.

Nerwen - "If you're not the Seer, you've made a false reveal that might bring the real one out in the open– and again, for no good reason." To phantom, but nah - pretty much every player here is seasoned and has played with him. Whoever is the Seer was never really going to take that seriously enough to reveal. Also, he revealed at the end of the Day and there was time enough and posts enough the next Day for any suddenly panicked Seer to think it over and not reveal in response. (I worry that I've just read phantom's post where he says the exact same thing - we rarely agree that much. ) Got to say I'm not totally happy with her focus on phantom actually, contrary to my earlier post. Her list of how phantom is playing is what he does every single game. Yeah I'm with her about what Shasta meant about how he'd rather sally had been lynched yesterDay. I don't think that was a particularly suspicious statement. Very interesting post about sally/phantom/Lottie. Good to have all those posts together and spelled out a bit. Interesting point on wilwa - when she's gleeful she has been wolvish in the past.

Shasta - I recall liking him yesterDay. He felt sensible. Ah but it was him who (to me) misread sally's post. I'm agreeing with most of what he's saying. Though I think he's missed some things. Those who said Lottie being guilty makes sally look better did explain their reasoning. This misunderstanding about him saying he'd rather have sally dead, it's quite interesting seeing the reactions to it. Who jumps on it as a slip and who disregards it. Yeees being aggressive ... but actually in a good way, he's making good points. Though I'd watch that, truly offending people isn't fun.

Greenie - agrees with me about sally. Ah and misread that post as well. Apart from that though I like Greenie here. She feels to be asking interesting and pertinent questions.

Legate - well, phantom DID reveal after Lottie's lynch was secured, but I actually think that makes him look more innocent as it didn't mess up the end of the Day or have the chance of any effect on the votes. He wasn't suspected enough to need to save himself with such a stunt. Good thoughts on what happened yesterDay I think. Happy with him as a Rep.

Rune - yup, completely agree with him about phantom. Fair point about sally. For both her and Lottie to vote phantom and be evil is a little unlikely. Not impossible though as they may have thought more people would jump on that given it was Day 1. Hmm, which is what Nerwen says, kinda agree there. Good list post. Reasoning behind everything.

Nog - short and sweet. Is this really Nog? Though I kind of agree with Shasta. We can't assume the phantom has been dreamt of. And with only one Elf down we can't assume that the Seer wouldn't keep quiet even if they had dreamt of phantom and found him to be evil. Ah he's playing statistics about sally. Fair enough.

Eonwe - sums up the phantom/Nerwen fight pretty well. Nice thinking on phantom's lack of voting. No, no I don't agree with him and Legate. phantom was in NO danger at the end of yesterDay when he 'revealed' - so that's not a reason for the reveal.

Lommy - being the mediator toDay! Some good points though I think. I'm actually pretty happy with Lommy so far this game so kudos to her if she's evil. And a Lommy flip-flop on wilwa. Due to questioning or re-reading. The answer to that might say something.

Conclusions coming shortly.

But first - quick point:
Aggressive/abusive: And I apologize for the strong wording here, but your third point is dumb.

Playing the game: For those who don't have time to read this post, this is just more Sally taking everything I say out of context as per usual in an attempt to make herself look better.

We've all seen nasty arguments and people getting very upset about things that have been said. Let's not go back to that eh? Keep things game-relevant. Being cross about being argued with/suspected/misunderstood doesn't give you the right to tell someone else they're stupid.

[Kath]

Conclusions ... and before anyone complains, this is ALL based on the previous commentary post.

Not sure:
phantom - yeah, no clue.

sally - suspicious, and not exonerated by Lottie's death. However, I do feel it more unlikely than likely that she and Lottie would have voted the same, so close together, if both Elves.

Celuien - would like to see more from her.

Nog - hmm, hmm. Well, his constant assurances that the Seer will deal with the phantom may just be that he's very confident in our Seer ... but to exonerate anyone with that reasoning isn't sensible. I don't think that's quite what he's doing though. Not sure here.


Leaning innocent:
Nerwen - it's weird. Some posts I read and think she's aggressive and really over-making a point. And then she makes a brilliant post like that sally/phantom/Lottie one and my whole opinion changes. For now I'd say I was fairly happy with her.

Shasta - I'm feeling okay about him.

Greenie - feels innocent.

Legate - like I said feeling good about him.

Rune - would like to see more of him but happy so far.

Eonwe - not convinced about his thinking on phantom's reveal but otherwise I'm happy with him.

Lommy - would like to see more on her thoughts about wilwa, otherwise she feels good.


Leaning guilty:
Inzil - I'm not sure. I actually do feel suspicious of him. I do think it was odd to focus so on phantom's 'reveal'. But maybe I'm too used to dismissing phantom's actions.

wilwa - is playing a little ... 'gleefully' is my word for it which can mark wolvishness. That said, the actual content of her posts seems thought through even if I don't always agree with it. BUt again no reason she couldn't manage this as an Elf.

Now I've been doing this for 3 hours and am tired! I will try to answer questions and keep on track though as I will be around on and off til deadline now I think.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Lommie

Phantom - all in all, he seems more innocent and guilty, simply like the cunning yet annoying plotty-phanty.

I read this sentence aloud to Lommy and she asked me to clarify that it is a typo and should read "more innocent than guilty".

Other than that - I really like Kath at the moment. I'm unsure of what to make of Nog's insistence that the Seer should concentrate on the Sally-phantom-matter. While Nerwen's analysis of Wilwa made me more wary of her, I'm still more inclined to find her innocent than not.


EDIT: x-ed with another Kath!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

If I'm correct in thinking that Sally & tp are innocents then I could see the SoE's be more than happy to keep up the impression that S & tp are tied to Lottie and should be only be handled in the context of their relation to Lottielf. So we should also check Lottie's other contacts...

Except she doesn't really have any. I just read through Day One. She posts plenty, but all she does is defend her vote for phantom, and defend phantom himself. Over and over.

Someone needs to work from the other direction– what people said about her, and to her. But I'm just too tired now to do it myself.

[satansaloser2005]

I need to stop randomly falling asleep.

Anyway, here's how this works. I explain/sum up the vote of a person, then put the current tally, then move onto the next vote. Simple, yes? All right. Now read.



I voted for Phantom in what was admittedly a mostly random move, but one that, on general principle, I was comfortable with. Besides, as far as I knew, I wouldn’t be around for the rest of the Day.

Sally-->Phantom


Lottie posts this shortly after my vote, which to me is worrisome.

Originally Posted by Loslote

This makes sense, and looks rather innocent of you, but I'm going be around, so Phantom, no vote for you.

...yet.

I find it interesting that it really does seem to be a foregone conclusion for her. This, at least for me, was the first sign that she might be evil. Just a tone thing, really.

Not long afterward, she votes.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)

Rune comes in a while later and says that he has “nothing to base his decisions on” but that he’s giving his power to Lommie. He also mentions that he would love to be a rep himself.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie

Greenie says she voted Nerwen because she is “independent-minded and clever” and says that putting a good Nerwen in charge is a good choice, while putting an evil Nerwen in charge can show us more about her character; either way (re: Nerwen’s alignment) Greenie is sure that voting Nerwen is a good idea. What concerns me here is that this is exactly the reasoning that I gave for Phantom. Greenie has been accusatory of me for my vote, yet hers was for the same reasons (though granted with more “evidence” behind it).

Also, if Wilwa was making so much sense, why didn’t she vote for her? I bring this up only because Wilwa is quite the suspect for me, and if Wilwa is a wolf I could see Greenie!wolf not wanting to have ties between them, and thus finding another candidate for representative. Just an idea to keep in mind for the future, really.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen

Nog votes for someone quiet, hoping to bring people out of the shadows and get a better mix of people in power. Izzy was innocent, which I think speaks well enough of Nog, but it also doesn’t clear him. Unfortunately, I don’t get much information or feeling out of this vote.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy

Mira’s vote is interesting for sure. She votes Phantom on what looks like banter. I’m not happy. Of course I know she didn’t have time to read everything, but if she read that far she could have at least said something I’d think. Meh, I don’t know. I’m not going to lynch her for this alone because I haven’t seen enough from her yet to know if this is evilness or just a rushed ordo.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom

Boro then votes for Vanilwa, which he justifies with liking her earlier proposal. Being the first Day, I wouldn’t have seen anything against it anyway, as you obviously vote for a rep you trust or agree with, and at this point there’s not much to agree on, so it’s a simple vote.

Also, yes, I know he’s dead, but I included him anyway. Nyah.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom
Boro-->Wilwa

Lommie votes for Greenie for much the same reason Boro votes for Muffin. She also mentions that she hopes Foley can be a rep.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie

Steve makes his choice between Legate and Greenie in the latter’s favor, saying that, no surprise, she’s reasonable and not evil. (Also, as a point of interest, I originally read his post as “I don’t think she’s that evil”, not “I don’t think that she’s evil”. Why can life never be that simple?)

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)

Dun (Dun Dun) seems to be one of the Boro vs. Phantom crowd (which wasn’t really a crowd, per se, but still). He was unhappy with Phantom’s rep status and thought Boro could....balance him out, I guess? There’s also the teeniest bit of push with that post, but I think I’m seeing things.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro

Shasta voted Izzy. Because he could.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)

Legate, having seen that Izzy is now a rep, decides Nerwen is his next best choice.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)

Cel’s vote is interesting, reasoned more along the lines of Nog’s but with the added mention that she doesn’t seem to have a problem with Phantom being a rep, unlike a few people expressed. In fact, she finds “nothing odd about tp’s campaign to lead”, but says it won’t really help determine his role. She’s not interested in watching Boro and Phantom fight, and isn’t too keen on discussing Phantom any more than she has to, though she would love a shiny gift. She also mentions that she likes “orcs with minds of their own”, and then votes for Foley.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Cel-->Foley

After Phantom jokes earlier of Cel being innocent by admitting her “guilt”, he votes her, saying that he thinks she’s innocent and wants to see more of her.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Cel-->Foley
Phantom-->Cel

Nerwen plops in rudely (snerk) and votes for Lommie, commenting later on the Phantom stuff.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Cel-->Foley
Phantom-->Cel
Nerwen-->Lommie (2)

In an x-post, Wilwa says that Lommie is reasonable and trusted to make a good choice. In her edit she headdesks at condracting her power limitation plan but says she’s glad someone besides Phantom has more power.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Cel-->Foley
Phantom-->Cel
Nerwen-->Lommie (2)
Wilwa-->Lommie (3)

Foley’s vote is confusing, but not guilt-riddled. I completely believe that she misread names and counts, but I find it interesting that she voted for Cel. Granted, it’s because I suspect Cel and I’m keeping my eye on possible ties, but also because Foley said “I like Dun” and then voted someone that she said she didn’t know much about (proven by her “I know little about most of the people who have only one vote”). Nothing huge, of course, but an interesting tidbit. I’m curious as to why she didn’t give Dun a bit more power rather than gambling on Cel (a curiosity that is not quelled by Cel’s less than squeaky clean behavior so far).

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Cel-->Foley
Phantom-->Cel
Nerwen-->Lommie (2)
Wilwa-->Lommie (3)
Foley-->Cel (2)

Izzy pops in last and adds Wilwa to the rep list, and that’s the end of Day One’s rep voting. On this final tally I’ve italicized the innocents and underlined known baddies, as is Norm.

Sally-->Phantom
Lottie-->Phantom (2)
Rune-->Lommie
Greenie-->Nerwen
Nog-->Izzy
Mira-->Phantom (3)
Boro-->Wilwa
Lommie-->Greenie
Steve-->Greenie (2)
Dun-->Boro
Shasta-->Izzy (2)
Legate-->Nerwen (2)
Cel-->Foley
Phantom-->Cel
Nerwen-->Lommie (2)
Wilwa-->Lommie (3)
Foley-->Cel (2)
Izzy-->Wilwa (2)

Didn’t vote for a representative: Glirdan, Kath

[Thinlómien]

Just letting you know I might not be back after this post.

Kath - Wilwa has seemed rather fishy to me since Day1, but sometimes she has seemed just innocently fishy (ie kind of eyebrow-raising the way some innocent people sometimes do). It was due to rereading and more thinking that I changed my mind, not because Greenie questioned my weird definition (she does it to me all the time ).

As for toDay's lynch: I'd prefer to see Sally, Cel or Wilwa gone. I don't have many solid reasons to back this up: mostly they all just seem "off" to me (Cel the most), and Wilwa's vote was fishy. Sally's role would tell us a great deal of phantom, I think.

Going to hang around now for fifteen minutes (shall post if something interesting occurs) and then I'll be gone. I might be back in 3-4 hours but I might as well head to bed at that hour...


edit: xed with Sally and only noticed it after a few minutes of staring at the thread

[Thinlómien]

PS. Sally you forgot Mira from your tallies although you mentioned her.

Going now. Vote well, reps!

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

PS. Sally you forgot Mira from your tallies although you mentioned her.

Going now. Vote well, reps!

Oh. Bloody. Bother. Thanks for pointing that out. How'd I miss that?

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Sally

Greenie says she voted Nerwen because she is “independent-minded and clever” and says that putting a good Nerwen in charge is a good choice, while putting an evil Nerwen in charge can show us more about her character; either way (re: Nerwen’s alignment) Greenie is sure that voting Nerwen is a good idea. What concerns me here is that this is exactly the reasoning that I gave for Phantom. Greenie has been accusatory of me for my vote, yet hers was for the same reasons (though granted with more “evidence” behind it).

I think the "evidence" is what makes the difference for me. I was more inclined to find Nerwen innocent than not, and only after that did I come to think that even if she's evil putting her in charge might not be that bad an idea. What made me most uneasy about your vote was that it came before the one you voted for had even made an appearance, and therefore you could have no idea about his alignment in this game. Actually, though, stuff you have said after your yesterDay's rep vote concerns me much much more than that vote.

Originally Posted by Sally

Also, if Wilwa was making so much sense, why didn’t she vote for her?

I had only seen one (though innocentish and sense-making) post by Wilwa before I voted, and didn't want to vote for someone I had seen so little of. In fact, I'm not sure if voting her for rep even crossed my mind! I had more or less made my decision by the time Wilwa's first post appeared. Also, as you can plainly see from my vote post, Wilwa's second sense-making post I mentioned was one my vote post crossed with, so seeing that post couldn't have changed my vote even if I had wanted it to.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Except she doesn't really have any. I just read through Day One. She posts plenty, but all she does is defend her vote for phantom, and defend phantom himself. Over and over.

Someone needs to work from the other direction– what people said about her, and to her. But I'm just too tired now to do it myself.

You're right about that. I actually read through D1 as well trying to look at the interactions - and sadly even the other POV didn't bring in anything that I could say would look really interesting. I made some notes though and will read them through yet to see them more closely.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I'm unsure of what to make of Nog's insistence that the Seer should concentrate on the Sally-phantom-matter.

Well, so far (from the mid of D1 about) I have been guided by an interpretation of the general situation that points it being wiser to check them and not lynch them right away.


But reading yesterDay - and especially the ending of it made me actually quite unhappy with Wilwa. Look at these things...

First there is the minor fact that she left the voting like 25 minutes before the deadline. Convenient 25 minutes to wash her hands and leave the decision to others? You may be short on time and sometimes even half an hour of sleep is important. But still I find it more like an intentional decision to step out of the fray.

But why?

She did say eventually that she would prefer to lynch Lottie, but she also knew tp would not lynch Sally - and she had kind of closed the port for voting Boro already earlier saying she didn’t think of him as suspicious - and sure Boro had voted her as a rep so that route was shut.

So if she is an elf it would make that careful decision of one vote each and early exit quite understandable. Otherwise her actions (why get out at the last minutes & why deal even the votes if you preferred to lynch the other) make less sense.

Also, unlike some other here seem to think, I do also think Wilwa's first post toDay looked suspicious. Her explanations made sense, but the urge to defend herself looked to me quite overdone. The villains always feel threatened, more than they are, and these kind of over-reactions oftentimes follow.

I'm off to check back the Lottie-connections from D1.


x'd with Greenie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Have been around and reading for a while and I have been trying to make my thoughts on whom I could basically vote. Let me now post a short list of people, and who of them I could vote for toDay:

Celuien - I started to look at her closely after I considered the votes, and now I am not sure about her posting, I think I would like to look at it again. She would be probably one option for me toDay.
Foley - inclined to believe her innocent and aside from that, she's not around - I am not voting her.
Greenie - she does not seem suspicious to me by her behavior, the only thing which could do her bad would be her voting, but that only in case sally is innocent, and even that makes quite many "what if"s. She is not getting my vote either.
Kath - good to see her around, there is nothing in her posts which would seem outright suspicious, I am getting perhaps some general disconcert from her, but that's her always-enigmatic nature for me. Let's see what can be made of her after some day she actually votes, or even becomes a Rep
Lommy - also does not get my vote, for several reasons; her vote was probably the most innocent and she generally behaves innocently, I do not suspect her.
Mira - I have many questionmarks over her, but she is not around at all, so unless she shows up, I am not even considering her.
Nerwen - like I said a few times, generally I find her more on the innocent side; she won't be getting my vote today.
Nog - I am generally in the dark about him, I get no bad feeling from him, he is sort of basic Nog, but so basic (as in: "basic English") that I am not also not getting particularly strong inclinations that would make me think "yes, he surely must be innocent!" Could be largely caused by his lessened participation (there are no fights with Roa etc., where his general temper and behavior shows a lot more ) Likely not voting him.
Phantom - considering all the input I have from him/about him/other people about him etc., I think he is more on the innocent side by a tiny bit. Probably not voting him.
Rune - is sort of enigmatic and I am still not so very fond of him. He was not a Rep, so there was no chance to really read his votes. Like with Cel, I think I am going to take a better look at all of his posts, and see what I think after that. *later edit when re-checking the post before posting: Hm, actually, now I sort of pity that he is not a Rep, if there is a person whom I would like to see voting, it is him. Wonder if I should keep him for that and vote him Rep in the following Day, then... although who knows what the situation will be then...
Sally - I spoke about why I am inclined to think her innocent. If I had to choose between her and somebody I trust more, I could vote her, but I don't think it will come to that, especially with my amount of votes and with the fact that I am probably going to vote earlier than most of others due to the European time.
Shasta - no reading on him, like I said. I could possibly go through his posts too if I have time, although it would be starting rather from scratch (but I would like to do it sometime anyway). In any case, since nothing did jump on me on first sight, he's more like in the same cathegory as Kath for now.
Steve - generally seems very reasonable and all, I am most certainly not going to vote him today.
Wilwa - I have several questionmarks over her too, although when I read some peoples' suspicions against her, I am getting the sort of feeling of that this might be the case of "how to misjudge an innocent".
Zil - partially similar to Shasta now, has been under my radar for the previous Day mostly. Better to also take a look at him if I can.

Generally: the options for my vote as they are now would be like Celuien or Rune, to a lesser extent Wilwa, Zil or Sally (but the latter mostly under certain circumstances which do not seem likely to arise).

Thoughts, options, comments? Now is the time to make them also if somebody is around... I would also like to know whom would people vote - asking especially my voters (but I think it would be the best if we could hear from everybody). It's not that I am going to be guided against my will, but I might in some case of several equal options consider others' ideas (though to be honest, I do not expect that to happen and I would prefer to make my own decision anyway; aside from that, two of you are Reps too so you can use your votes as you see fit).

Since I spent actually over two hours here now, I will probably do something else for a while and then come back, reread something, possibly have something to read also from you others if anybody posts...

EDIT: ha, great, the silence is broken - x-ed with Greenie and Nog

[A Little Green]

This will, in all probability, be the last from me toDay. Reps, choose well please. I'd prefer it if you lynched Sally, and wouldn't object to lynching Cel or Mira. Also, I'd prefer it if you left Shasta, Lommy, Wilwa and phantom alone.


EDIT: x-ed with Legate and Nog! Yay, people! I might not leave after all. Or I might.

[satansaloser2005]

To Nog, re: Wilwa.

You're not alone by any means, I believe. I think Wilwa has been fishy as well, and unlike some, I don't have the wishy-washy "but it's innocent fishy" response to her.


To Legate.

For what it's worth, I'd greatly prefer Wilwa or Cel toDay, Wilwa especially. Not only do I suspect Wilwa pretty hard, I think her death could tell us quite a lot about others in the village.

EDIT: x'd with Greenie

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Legate

Generally: the options for my vote as they are now would be like Celuien or Rune, to a lesser extent Wilwa, Zil or Sally (but the latter mostly under certain circumstances which do not seem likely to arise).

Thoughts, options, comments? Now is the time to make them also if somebody is around... I would also like to know whom would people vote - asking especially my voters (but I think it would be the best if we could hear from everybody). It's not that I am going to be guided against my will, but I might in some case of several equal options consider others' ideas (though to be honest, I do not expect that to happen and I would prefer to make my own decision anyway; aside from that, two of you are Reps too so you can use your votes as you see fit).

Well. Of Celuien and Rune, I'd certainly prefer Cel as I think I have a read on Rune and I think he's innocent. Of Wilwa, Zil and Sally, then - I find Wilwa very innocent and wouldn't have you vote her, I'm not convinced either way about Zil, and as I said I certainly wouldn't mind seeing Sally lynched.


EDIT: x-ed with Sally

[Mirandir]

*is a super epic fail at this game and would request modfire if Fea wouldn't literally eat her soul and probably forbid her to ever loiter at her house again ever*

On that note, I am in desperate need of a nap and will be legitimately around after that (given I don't die in my sleep or something). If there's anything in particular people would like me to respond to, condensed versions would be much appreciated.

x.x

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Nog - (there are no fights with Roa etc., where his general temper and behavior shows a lot more )

My general temper or my overtired temper at 3am to 6am?

Generally: the options for my vote as they are now would be like Celuien or Rune, to a lesser extent Wilwa, Zil or Sally (but the latter mostly under certain circumstances which do not seem likely to arise).

Okay. I need to look back at Celuien as so many people talk about her being suspicious - I kind of share a certain uneasiness with her due more to style-issues, but nothing more as yet.

Rune is more composed and he's not getting mad at anyone. So should I count it as suspicious? Agreeableness sure is one of the general trademarks of the elves.

Inzil has been quite careful - like I think he normally is. So I don't see any special red lights going on in there. But I think I need to take a closer look at him as well.

Sally I would leave to the seer as I said before. Someone actually noted that it might take a few Days before the seer comes out - that's just the better, for that would mean more information.

At the moment I think Wilwa looks the most suspicious (especially the voting-stuff from yesterDay), but I'll check at some others as well.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think it not unlikely one of these two is Lottie's fellow. My guess is that it might be Sally, and that Lottie, and perhaps Sally as well, took phantom's post at #10 as a pledge of loyalty from the Unknown Orc. Then perhaps Lottie took Sally's post at #12 as a signal that it was OK to vote phantom. (Note that in each case it could have been a misinterpretation– that doesn't matter.)

That is all speculation, of course– I could be completely out in all this. The point I am making is that Lottie and Sally's voting patterns are not the massive obstacle to a Sallyelf theory that they've been taken as.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I must say that Nerwen is right here that indeed the double-vote from both sally and Lottie is not so improbable to have been from two SoE.

I still think that for Lottie to have made her vote so quickly in the footsteps of her mate would have been unnecessarily risky. She had to have known those votes would be questioned.
I'd agree with those who said that if Lottie did indeed follow SallyElf's lead by voting tp, it was a sudden decision, not something they'd planned. Like I said, they'd have to have considered that those votes would be scrutinized.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Wilwa posts a lot without saying much; general tone of breathless gaiety is reminiscent of her wolf-style; only starts suspecting Lottie when the latter is clearly in trouble. So yeah, she might be a wolf– but surely only if Sally isn't, because otherwise voting them both would be an insane risk.

I thought Wilwa looked all right going up to YesterDay's vote. I was thinking of voting for her at one point. It was her split votes, coupled with toDay's apparent nerviness that made me suspect her. And I agree that it's highly unlikely she and Sally are both evil.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Unless both Sally and Lottie are wolves, then wolf-phantom would've been wise to change his mind about Sally a bit earlier on and voted her and saved Lottie. This makes him seem more innocent (until/unless sally is proved a wolf, which wouldn't be that big a surprise). Also, he seems too impassionate in the end of the voting on Day1 to have any serious interest on the income, which he would've had had he been a wolf with (just) Lottie.

It seems insanely risky for three Elves to have so blatantly joined themselves together so early on Day 1. That's is why I'm leaning more toward tp being the OoUA than an Elf, (if he is indeed evil). I don't think he would have invited Lottie's vote the way he did if they'd been mates.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

As for toDay's lynch: I'd prefer to see Sally, Cel or Wilwa gone. I don't have many solid reasons to back this up: mostly they all just seem "off" to me (Cel the most), and Wilwa's vote was fishy. Sally's role would tell us a great deal of phantom, I think.

I think I'd prefer Wilwa over Sally at this point, but either could tell us quite a bit with their alignment known. The most suspect thing about Cel seems to be her vote yesterDay, and I don't think I'd want to lynch her, especially as she hasn't been her toDay at all.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Legate

Off for a while, will be back in several hours. Looking forward to see some posts... May The Phorc Not Be Among Them in excessive amount.

Yeah, what are the chances of that.

Originally Posted by Green

Looking forwards to seeing what they will do! I'm feeling optimistic right now.

Are you always this optimistic? Because I almost want to suspect you for it, as it is usually quite difficult to convince me of my chances until something is nearly in the bag or the odds are stacked heavily in favor, and even then I tend to worry and fear the worst. Blast you and your different way of thinking!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Funny that the two whom phantom wanted to see dead yesterDay ended up modfired toDay... Phantom dear, are you sure you haven't been bribing our moddesses?

Are you questioning me? Because if you are...
*prepares to send another bribe to the Mods*

Kath is here!! And looks good.

Anyway, I'll be back with a Rep voting list and such (for both days) and will give some thoughts.

[the phantom]

IMPORTANT NOTE: Please recall that Fea asked us to remember to use the correct voting format this time around- double signs (++) on BOTH sides of the name you are voting for.

Her example from the Admin thread-

++Fea++

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading. I've noted several things to comment on, not least of which is Nogrod and his insistence on leaving everything to the Seer. He's mentioned it at least twice now - "Leave Phantom to the Seer! Leave Sally to the Seer!" - and I call shenanigans. Nogrod, you're being absurd.

Will formulate a better post now.

[Nogrod]

Celuien and her massive posting of a total of 8 posts (of which none on D2)

#139 Tells us she’s reading halfway through, IC banter.

#153 Now I see what I was feeling odd about: it feels like she is trying too hard to fit into the IC, to be light-hearted. But she talks reasonably of how dangerous it would be to let elves steer the vote, or basically just let a few to dominate the vote. Interestingly she pauses the thinking for saying there’s nothing odd in tp campaigning for leadership – to then continue why he’s not voting him: “I do want to spread some of the representing vote power around and because I want to get more discussion and voting trails for tomorrow“. She doesn’t want to vote Boro for rep as she fears a Boro – phantom duel and goes for a quieter one – votes Foley for rep.

#154 I don’t actually understand this so let you others explain it to me.
Originally Posted by the phantom

Originally Posted by Celuien

Haha! Or rather, mwhahaha. None of this "good" nonsense. That sounds like elf talk.

(This was followed by tp voting her as a representative)

#191 Comes back (two and half hours later) only to comment on nick-names and signs out promising to pay attention later.



#272 Reports to duty – the similar joking tone I feel is a bit off. Promises to be back after catching up.

#279 Says she doesn’t believe tp is an elf and also thinks that jumping on the early voters just because they voted early is silly. Says she has always been in the “D1’s are annoying”-camp and could have acted likewise. Answers me and Lommy and says it’s more suspicious to suspect someone because of being in a role and says to watch back. Says Izzy, Steve and Wilwa look genuine. Something bothers him with Boro discussing with Mira.

#281 (Answering phantom’s question as to if someone would be ready to lynch Boro) Says Boro has been unsettling to her – but that is more of a gut feeling. Wouldn’t mind voting him. No read on Glirdy.

#293 Votes Boro.


And that's it. She's consistent and I can't see her as that suspicious. At least reading through those few posts made me a bit less suspicious of her. But I'd sure love to see her contribute a bit more. And it is possible her reaction to Lottie & Sally was a planned defence - and if she is in cahoots with tp then phantom's sudden drive to lynch Boro might be understandable (Cel had said earlier she suspects him so it would be easy for her to follow that line of voting). But I think that scenario (the latter one) to be a bit far-fetched.

But like I said, I'm a bit less woried about Celuien now.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I've noted several things to comment on, not least of which is Nogrod and his insistence on leaving everything to the Seer. He's mentioned it at least twice now - "Leave Phantom to the Seer! Leave Sally to the Seer!" - and I call shenanigans. Nogrod, you're being absurd.

Tell me Shasta, why not to wait for the seer and be cool with it? Give me one good reason. And first of all think...